did anyone see the 8 1/2 achilles divers had friday?after talking to Greg at DD for about hour about this fish I pulled out the plastic told the wife I found what I wanted for V day.I've read the achilles primer thread end to end once and reread most of it .I have a 340 gallon system thats been running for a year it has 50 gal. sump with with 40 gal. refugium w/2lbs ori ,cantalope size cheato,and a 1/2 lb. of calurpa.my parameters are nitrates 0,nitrites,ph 8.0,ammonia is 0.I'm buffing daily now to bring up ph.I have a dolphin 3500 for return and 2 seio 2600s,a coralia and twin prop coralia 2600 knock off for circulation. about 300lbs of live rock in tank, skimmer is a huge euro-reef .what can I do to get more oxygenated water as everyone says they need lots oxygenated water in the system. my livestock is mostly 3 to 5 " but I have a dussemeri thats knocking on 10".I have about 16 fish total .as most have said he will be put straight into display and probably sectioned off to one side of the tank until he gets adjusted .any advice on how to best prepare for this guy.oh yea doing a 65 gallon water change today.thanks mtbiker41
divers den 8 1/2 achilles
- Thread starter mtbiker41
- Start date
qt achilles
qt achilles
qt achilles
everyone that has one living is against qt unless have a huge qt tank.I do have a 55 but its not running.I'm doing a water change tonight and could use that to fill up but just have a cheap hang on filter to run it.do you have one and how old is it if so and what have you done to insure its health?
Korrine
You could get a ticket!!
what you could do, imo, is pull some rock that you may have in your sump or display and put it in your 55 w/a power head and the water change water. Instantly cycled tank 
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AchillesTgArt.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AchillesTgArt.htm
I don't currently have one, but think of it this way. It is a touchy fish. If something goes wrong it will probably be one of the first to show signs (ich usually), and things always go wrong. If the fish is healthy initially (from DD) surviving QT should be no problem. The reason most say go straight to the display is they probably think it will die in QT or won't eat. It is my opinion that all fish should be QT, so when things go wrong disease won't be an issue.
hybridazn
New member
my only ? is if this fish is that size, would a 55 be enough room to hold it even for a few weeks? the AT is a very finicky fish and requires a ton of swimming room. one of that size i dont think would fair well in a 4 foot tank (assuming it is a standard size 55 gal tank)
i too have read the primer and as you stated it seems like everyone who has QT'd has ended badly. i had a problem with PBT that had a little bit of ich on it when i bought him, QT'd him for about 3 1/2 weeks, and he just up and died on me. after that i have never QT'd another fish and none have died on me. So i tried again and added him straight to DT with great results.
it's almost like russian roulette with these fish, best of luck to you and please post pics of this guy! the AT is my fav. fish
i too have read the primer and as you stated it seems like everyone who has QT'd has ended badly. i had a problem with PBT that had a little bit of ich on it when i bought him, QT'd him for about 3 1/2 weeks, and he just up and died on me. after that i have never QT'd another fish and none have died on me. So i tried again and added him straight to DT with great results.
it's almost like russian roulette with these fish, best of luck to you and please post pics of this guy! the AT is my fav. fish
LFS's hold big fish in small tanks temporarily all the time. It should be fine in QT. The water quality has to be monitored in the QT and you have to have healthy fat fish to treat because meds can be taxing on fish so trying to get fish to eat and treating should not go hand in hand. The fish should first be eating then treated.
My counter question is... with a fish that size, he is probably going to a big tank (this case 340 gal.) which probably means quite a few fish, would you want to deal with all those fish getting sick if something ever did go wrong?
My counter question is... with a fish that size, he is probably going to a big tank (this case 340 gal.) which probably means quite a few fish, would you want to deal with all those fish getting sick if something ever did go wrong?
sanchoy
New member
Just heads up.. most PBT,Hippo,and achilles will get ick 95% of the time. At least a small break out of it. So by quarantine you will have a small break out, and when you put him into DT you will again get another phase. This happened to 2 of the fellow reefers i know, and myself personally.
To be honest, if the fish comes in healthy looking, fat stomache, no signs of ick. With the price you are paying, I would put directly into DT. If it comes skinny and with ick, than of course QT. Thats just my 2 pennies worth.
I have an achilles, he came in medium build. Threw him directly into DT. He got small breakout of ick, than it vanished. My friend put his into a QT, his fish later died because it couldn't fight off the ick and starved to death.
To be honest, if the fish comes in healthy looking, fat stomache, no signs of ick. With the price you are paying, I would put directly into DT. If it comes skinny and with ick, than of course QT. Thats just my 2 pennies worth.
I have an achilles, he came in medium build. Threw him directly into DT. He got small breakout of ick, than it vanished. My friend put his into a QT, his fish later died because it couldn't fight off the ick and starved to death.
stunreefer
Reef Hugger
Not pointing fingers, but with 99% of the people I've seen mention "I never have luck with QT" their QT is inadequate. QT tanks should be set up and maintained exactly the same as a DT. Cycled, water changes, the whole thing. I run HOB filter, heater, live rock and live sand. It is comfortable for the new (stressed) fish, and I can observe his eating behaviors and treat accordingly if necessary. A bare tank that has instantly been set-up is no place for a stressed fish still needing to be acclimated to captivity. In QT the main killer is ammonia, so it's our job to ensure that there is a properly established filter on it (be it HOB, sponge, etc.) and that we have plenty of fresh mixed salt water ready for large water changes as in effect we are the filter when ammonia creeps up.
Jason does have a point regarding other dither fish that already accpet prepared foods coaxing the newcomer to "try" the foods we're offering, but a fish coming from DD no doubt has already been accpepting prepared foods that you can offer, do the dither fish argument is somewhat put to rest. A good rule of thumb is to never purchase a fish unless your sure that it's been eating a range of prepared foods for quite some time.
Jason does have a point regarding other dither fish that already accpet prepared foods coaxing the newcomer to "try" the foods we're offering, but a fish coming from DD no doubt has already been accpepting prepared foods that you can offer, do the dither fish argument is somewhat put to rest. A good rule of thumb is to never purchase a fish unless your sure that it's been eating a range of prepared foods for quite some time.
jmaneyapanda
Commencing hatred
I have a tiny one taht spent 4 weeks in QT with no issue. Like TCM said, what do you think theyre housing it in at Rhinelander? A 300 gallon? Its in a smaller holding system mroe than likely.
Untamed12
New member
That is a very large AT. One thing I would consider is that I have had more luck with purchase of younger, smaller fish...than I have with older, full grown fish. It isn't that I can't keep them alive, it is that they don't adapt well to captivity and seem preoccupied with trying to escape all the time. (that's a general comment, not specific to ATs)
To your oxygen level question....huge skimmer. I don't mean expensive, I mean physically huge so you can flow large amount of water through it.
My AT has always had ich...will be three years assuming he lives to May, 2010.
To your oxygen level question....huge skimmer. I don't mean expensive, I mean physically huge so you can flow large amount of water through it.
My AT has always had ich...will be three years assuming he lives to May, 2010.
sufunk
New member
Against my better judgement, i added an Achilles to my 180g about 6 months ago. It was ich free and eating at my lfs which i trust 100%. Because of that, i didnt qt (for the 1st time) as i didnt want to stress it out in my little 20g qt.
Long story short, even though he ate at the lfs in my presence numerous times, he would NEVER eat in my display. He acted like he wanted to but got spooked when any of my other fish, even a tiny anthias came near him. After a few days, he came down with ich which he spread to my other tangs. My other tangs continued to eat like pigs so the ich went away but the achilles never recovered. He got thinner and thinner until he died after almost 3 weeks.
I've been in this hobby for over 5 years and he was the only tang i've ever had die on me. The other 4 i've bought are all still alive and happy. I may try another one in the future but this time i will definitely qt. I dont know that it would have made any difference but i've been kicking myself for months for not qt'ing that awesome achilles
Long story short, even though he ate at the lfs in my presence numerous times, he would NEVER eat in my display. He acted like he wanted to but got spooked when any of my other fish, even a tiny anthias came near him. After a few days, he came down with ich which he spread to my other tangs. My other tangs continued to eat like pigs so the ich went away but the achilles never recovered. He got thinner and thinner until he died after almost 3 weeks.
I've been in this hobby for over 5 years and he was the only tang i've ever had die on me. The other 4 i've bought are all still alive and happy. I may try another one in the future but this time i will definitely qt. I dont know that it would have made any difference but i've been kicking myself for months for not qt'ing that awesome achilles
qt ac tang
qt ac tang
my experience using qt hasn't been good but that could be because I tried using water change water a couple days before fish arrived.I didn't use live rock but used a hang on filter and a charcoal reactor.and after adding fish ammonia would go up even doing daily water changes. as one poster said I believe if your going to use qt it should be up and running cycled .so if I do the same but use live will this reduce ammo spike?I really don't want to infect and treat my dt.I have a few of my wifes fish that made it a thru a fire and tank busting then living in a bathtub for over 2 months .2 being a leopard wrasse 4 years old about and purple tang probably 5 yrs old.so I really would hate lose them to this.
qt ac tang
my experience using qt hasn't been good but that could be because I tried using water change water a couple days before fish arrived.I didn't use live rock but used a hang on filter and a charcoal reactor.and after adding fish ammonia would go up even doing daily water changes. as one poster said I believe if your going to use qt it should be up and running cycled .so if I do the same but use live will this reduce ammo spike?I really don't want to infect and treat my dt.I have a few of my wifes fish that made it a thru a fire and tank busting then living in a bathtub for over 2 months .2 being a leopard wrasse 4 years old about and purple tang probably 5 yrs old.so I really would hate lose them to this.
I have QT them and i have DT them. I seen the benifits of the DT has on them and i have seen how they wither awat in QT tanks. I have also see how they bring stuff with them into the DT. I run a proper QT, But its always been a QT no sand and rock. It doubles as a Hospital tanks so the fish does not get pulled out to get treated.
I have had a few AT's and of the QT ones none of them lived longer than a week in QT.
Austin remember waynes AT? He didnt QT it, or any of is fish for that matter. I have never seen any fish die from him unless it got stuck in a overflow or something in that nature.
I am not supporting just dumping your fish in the DT, But I believe theres more than just dumb luck going on here too. JMO
I have had a few AT's and of the QT ones none of them lived longer than a week in QT.
Austin remember waynes AT? He didnt QT it, or any of is fish for that matter. I have never seen any fish die from him unless it got stuck in a overflow or something in that nature.
I am not supporting just dumping your fish in the DT, But I believe theres more than just dumb luck going on here too. JMO
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If a person had a big enough tank, say at least a 75 or 125 gallon or so to dedicate as a QT tank then I could see that as being beneficial, but the fact is that most average people do not have the space or money to set up and maintain a seperate tank apart from their main displays. Most people use anywhere from a 10g to a 55g as a QT tank, which will work fine for really small fish. But for tangs, angels, etc. they need a bigger tank to move around in, a 55g just simply isn't going to cut it. I agree with Creetin and will continue to be an advocate for not QT in this case.
Did you get the fish? How is it doing?
jmaneyapanda
Commencing hatred
I will respectfully disgaree 1 million percent. I am finishing QTing 2 medium sized (4-5") angelfish in a 29 gallon that, as mentioned, if properly setup can provide a very suitable short term home. 8.5" is a big fish, but a 4 foot 55 gallon would be more than adequate, if water quality is maintained.
I still find it quite unbelieveable that so many people are willing to purposefully omit QT nowadays. It really blows my mind. To put not only the fish in question, but every other fish in the tank DIRECTLY into harms way by skipping seems absurd to me. That is just my opinion, though. Take a look at Chingchai's build in the large tank forum. He lost nearly ALL his fish to velvet because he didnt want to "stress" his fish by QTing them. Including some very very $$$$ fish. He now QT's. Its foolish not to.
If someone can afford the 8.5" Achilles from DD, they can afford a properly prepared QT setup, IMO.
But, to each, their own.
IME when someone wipes out all their fish without using QT, they learn real fast from the err of their ways. It is best to encourage people to do the right thing, however, as long as there are people that say "I never QT and never have problems", unfortunately there will be some hard lessons learned. Once ich is in the display, as long as there are fish, it is there forever regardless of whether you can see it or not. My recommendation is to QT the fish in the 55 with a HOB filter and some PVC (large PVC in this case). Do at least 50% water changes weekly for at least 6 weeks. Monitor ammonia closely and use prime or amquel to bind it incase is spikes quickly.
