DivingTheWorld's Custom Leemar 80g Rimless Reef

[DivingTheWorld]

Leak 1 - I'm calling this one fixed.

Leak 2 - Hard to say for sure, but I think this is actually holding now?

Leak 3 - Seems to be holding.

Union between pump and T manifold - Seems to be sealed up good.

 

[DivingTheWorld]

5. Return Pump Turned On - This will test all plumbing.

Flipped on the pump today to test my 2 leak fixes, had good news and bad news.

Good news is that the pump is frickin silent. I didn't even realize it was on with my head right next to it until water started flowing out of my returns! Also, the leaks appear to be fixed.

Bad news is...

Leak 4 - There is another slow drip in my main return. Thankfully it's right in front with easy access and it's also directly above the sump so the drips just go right into the sump. I did some dis-assembly of the pipes to drain them out so it can dry. Tomorrow morning I'll do the pvc glue leak fix and let that dry for a couple days.

I also installed my MP-40's and flipped them on. When they ramp up to full power, they are loud! But in a tank my size, I shouldn't ever need them more than half power so hopefully they're not bad. So far it looks like the MP-40's will be the only thing producing noise. A couple questions on mounting...

1. I assume the best position for these will be each of the sides of the tank (left and right)? I ask because it sure would be nice to mount them both on the back wall to leave the sides clean... What do you guys think?

2. Can these be mounted with the cord going up or down? Any drawbacks either way?

 

[D-Nak]

I have my MP40s mounted on the back wall of my 120. It's mainly due to my kids and their cousins and friends and me not wanting them to touch the MP40s if they were mounted on the sides. They work fine on the back wall, but my understanding is it's best to mount them on the side panels, especially if you want to create an actual wave.

The recommended mounting position is to have the cords facing up, secured with zip ties and the plastic mounts that stick to the tank. This way, if the wetside is dislodged, then dryside won't fall off of the tank, but will instead dangle from the code suspended by the mounts. I've found that these mounts end up losing stickiness and end up coming off of the tank, so I replace them periodically. It also helps to keep the up cord because when doing maintenance on the wetsides (and you will need to do this periodically), since the drysides stay in place, it's easier to know where the wetside should be located.

 

[DivingTheWorld]

Awesome, thanks for the response!

 

[DivingTheWorld]

Ok, I started up the return pump again yesterday evening and the Leak 4 fix is holding. It ran all night with the pump at full speed with no leaks!

Next issue is with tuning. When I first started up the pump and dialed in the drain gate valve, it was nice and quiet. But after testing shutting off the pump a couple of times, I now have air noise in the main drain and I'm having trouble dialing back in the gate valve. I think the problem is that my main drain sump pipe is extended too far below the surface of the sump (approx. 3") and not allowing for enough water pressure to let the air purge from the pipe. My plan tonight is to cut that down to about 1" below the surface.

Thumbs up, thumbs down?

I've been thinking more about the MP-40s mounting location and the fact that I have two kids under 5 in the house and who knows how many of their friends coming to visit, I'm going to mount them on the back wall away from any little hands. If it doesn't work out, I can always move them to the sides.

 

[mustangs]

if its a flushing sound I would just turn down your return. if your waterline in your overflow is well above your main drain your probably trying to push to much water down your main drain.

 

[Dapg8gt]

Yes make sure it's an inch maximum under the surface to purge the air. That's a must with a siphon system it will make it a lot easier

 

[DivingTheWorld]

Well, I cut the pipe so it's now approx 1 1/8" below the sump water surface and it made no difference... I still hear the water rushing sound and lots of bubbles coming out of the drain. Where the heck are these bubbles coming from??

I just cut it this morning, so maybe it can take a couple hours to purge all the air out? I'll check this afternoon when I get home.

The water level in the overflow is right at the lip of the emergency drain, so approx. 6" above the main drain. There is no air sucking in from the top.

I can turn down the return pump, but honestly, at full speed it really doesn't seem like that much water is passing through. And I haven't even opened up the two reactor valves yet... I'm sure glad I didn't get the Diablo DC-3500 pump as that would not have had nearly enough power.

 

[greengeco82]

The bubbles should go away as long as you are not sucking air from the top. I have the same setup you do and I also get the bubbles coming from the valved pipe. I believe there is a bubble just under your valve that is constantly getting broken down and flushed out. It should take less than a day, if you leave it alone. Also, the more flow from your pump, the faster the bubbles will get flushed out of your return.

 

[DivingTheWorld]

Also, the more flow from your pump, the faster the bubbles will get flushed out of your return.

That's what I figured too. I have my pump at full speed, so can't turn it up any more. I only had about 30 minutes this morning from when I cut it, so hopefully it will be quieter this afternoon when I get home. Thanks!

 

[Dapg8gt]

I have 0 bubbles in my herbie.If you have bubbles your not running a full siphon. If it's just bubble's under the valve it's gotta purge it all out sometime like greengeco mentioned unless there is a leak..

I initially will run it wide open and go to the point of closed were it's pouring down the emergency, then open it in slight bumps till it lowers below the emergency and it will purge all the air out of it. If you can't purge the air out you may need to cut the pipe more.. I have probably 3/4" to 1 " submerged fwiw.

As long as you are using a gate valve you can fine tune it into a siphon it just takes a little practice. Just choke it down and work from there, you will get it to where you want it and become used to messing with it when you have to make slight adjustments randomly =) ..

 

[DivingTheWorld]

I initially will run it wide open and go to the point of closed were it's pouring down the emergency, then open it in slight bumps till it lowers below the emergency and it will purge all the air out of it.

So do you have to manually re-set your siphon each time your pump loses power? I was hoping to have this automatically reset after the pump shuts off and turns back on for power outages, maintenance, feeding, etc.

When I first started it up the valve was fully open and I slowly closed it down. I don't recall any air noise coming from the line. Since then, my tests have all been leaving the valve at the same closure amount and using the "Feed" button which shuts the pump off and back on.

 

[Dapg8gt]

So do you have to manually re-set your siphon each time your pump loses power? I was hoping to have this automatically reset after the pump shuts off and turns back on for power outages, maintenance, feeding, etc.

When I first started it up the valve was fully open and I slowly closed it down. I don't recall any air noise coming from the line. Since then, my tests have all been leaving the valve at the same closure amount and using the "Feed" button which shuts the pump off and back on.

No not at all.. You will have to randomly adjust it slightly just to keep it silent.. Maybe once or twice a month for me if that..

When it starts up its going to go to the emergency to purge all the air then it will be silent again automatically.

 

[DivingTheWorld]

Awesome, thanks!

 

[DivingTheWorld]

When I got home I found that there were still bubbles coming out in the sump. I do see that there are some bubbles in the overflow. I measured the top of the emergency drain to be approx. 1" below the teeth or about 1.5" below the water line in the tank.

So I made two changes. First, I replaced the emergency stand pipe with one 1/2" taller. The top should be only about 1/2" below the teeth and approx. 1" below the surface of the tank water. I also reduced the length of the main drain end in the sump by 1/2" so it now extends approx. 1/2" below the surface of the water.

I'm going to let it sit with the pump off for 24 hours to see if the new emergency stand pipe stays water tight, then tomorrow evening I'll test out my changes.

Frankly, I don't know that there are any other changes I can make to dial this in any more... It's not super loud anymore, but I really wish it was silent and I'm concerned about all the bubbles entering the sump.

 

[mustangs]

Just my experience setting up my system the only time I ever had flushing sounds it was because my return pump was pushing to much water down to small of a pipe creating to much pressure till it makes that awful flushing sound and the water goes down the pipe. I understand the herbie concept but to me it seems flawed in the fact you need to adjust a valve to keep it silent sometimes return pumps will get dirty and slow down or speed up when you clean the return pump screen so you will always be adjusting that valve.

Simple fix without ever having to adjust a herbie valve is to just match your return flow so your main drain is able to take the amount of water that you are trying to push down it, if the water level is well above the stand pipe it can't handle the amount of water trying to go down it.

The way I run my single drain it is perfectly silent I matched my return pump speed to what the pipe size will handle so the water creeps into the pipe, the water level in the overflow only goes high enough to enter the stand pipe and the system is perfectly silent.

Yes I know people will say its not safe to run a single drain but I do not have large snails so I never worry about it clogging, what is the ideal turnover rate ? (who knows everyone has there opinions) I find alot of people think that we need some huge turnover in our tanks but what I have found running my system for the last year as long as circulation in the tank is good enough to keep detritus suspended a slower turnover rate will be fine I prefer a slower turnover anyways so my skimmer has more time to skim what enters the sump.

 

[Dapg8gt]

How far apart are the primary and emergency? It's not pulling in air from the surface is it? Should be at least 3" below the emergency imo but the deeper the better, higher the head pressure is the faster it goes into siphon + more of a buffer for it to suck air when the pump slows a little and not have to adjust it.

I've read some threads where people had some minor leaks on the drain line that was pulling in air but I've never experienced that at all.. I've actually never had a glued fitting leak though either, threaded is a different story =).

Don't worry you will get it.. It works for sure in thousands of other tanks and yours is plumbed nicer than a lot of them who use it successfully =)..

And I'm Def not in the camp that a single drain is better than having one with an emergency. If it's by choice I don't agree but if it's stock you gotta do what you gotta do. There are some valveless siphon drains that are cool though.. The "robertoflow" on the reef angel forum is dope.. But it's safeguards are coded into the controller and dependant on flow height and level sensors vs nothing..

 

[mustangs]

Yes I agree dap if I had a second drain it would be nice for emergency but I only had one drain hole in my tank....what I was getting at is I don't see the point of the herbie setup if you match your return flow to what your main drain can handle it will be perfectly silent and you never need to adjust a valve.

also by having a lower rate of turnover through the sump, there are a few advantages it helps keep the system stable by adding chemical additives or top-off water from your sump at a slower rate. This ensures changes to water chemistry don’t happen too fast.
More dwell time for your skimmer to remove dissolved organics and a smaller return pump can be used. This saves money in the long run by using less power. Not a bad idea for a device that runs 24/7. There is also a pretty big difference in cost and noise of a 500GPH pump and a 900GPH pump.
Less risk of tank inhabitants being sucked into the overflow box and you can really get away with something more like 4-5X system volume per hour when you have good in tank circulation.

Im sure he will get it dialed in alot of people run the herbie setup as you mentioned. anyways sorry to get a little side tracked but GL and I enjoy watching the progress that has been made so far we all went through a little trial and error when setting up our systems as everyone is unique.

 

[DivingTheWorld]

How far apart are the primary and emergency? It's not pulling in air from the surface is it? Should be at least 3" below the emergency imo but the deeper the better, higher the head pressure is the faster it goes into siphon + more of a buffer for it to suck air when the pump slows a little and not have to adjust it.

Originally, I had the main 6" below the emergency. But after the adjustment last night, the main is now 6.5" below the emergency.

Any chance this bubble issue could have something to do with my testing with freshwater? I've been waiting till I get everything dialed in before I add salt.

 

[DivingTheWorld]

@ Mustangs - I need to do some calculating, which I haven't done yet since final plumbing completion. But my pump (RO Diablo DC-5500) at 0 head puts out 1450gph. It only uses 50 watts at full speed and I can tell you is dead silent. The only way I can hear it is if I put my ear right up next to it, there is a soft whirring.

Yeah, the turnover rate is hotly debated. That's one reason I went with the controllable DC pump. I can turn it up or down with 6 different speeds and decide what flow I eventually want. I'm also running two reactors off the return, so when I flip those on it will reduce flow. For now I'm running my tests at full speed but I can turn it down later if needed.