DivingTheWorld's Custom Leemar 80g Rimless Reef

[DivingTheWorld]

I'm working on setting up my Neptune Apex and my two Energy Bar 8's. Here's my current plan. Feel free to critique:

 

[DivingTheWorld]

Well still no luck on the drain noise coming from my main drain. There is definitely no bubbles coming from the top or getting sucked in at the bottom. But I don't understand where they can be coming from in the line. The only thing I can think of is that somehow the drain is sucking in air from the piping? But if that's the case, I would think I'd see some dripping somewhere...

 

[D-Nak]

Well still no luck on the drain noise coming from my main drain. There is definitely no bubbles coming from the top or getting sucked in at the bottom. But I don't understand where they can be coming from in the line. The only thing I can think of is that somehow the drain is sucking in air from the piping? But if that's the case, I would think I'd see some dripping somewhere...

How are your drains ending in the sump? Are they under the waterline? I can't see it in the photos.

EDIT: I see that you mentioned 1/2" below the waterline. Is it creating suction and pulling air in?

 

[DivingTheWorld]

How are your drains ending in the sump? Are they under the water line? I can't see it in the photos.

Originally I had them 3" below the surface of the sump. I cut them down so they only extend approx. 1" below the surface.

One potential issue I was just thinking about... Below the sump bulkhead, the pipe is not glued into the male adapter and the male adapter is screwed without putty into the bulkhead. I suppose its possible that air is somehow entering the line below the sump bulkhead? But the sound seems to be running the length of the line.

 

[mustangs]

I know you want to run the herbie siphon but if you can't track down the cause of the noise I would just raise your main drain standpipe so the water level in your overflow box is high enough so there is no splashing noise from the water entering your overflow box, crank open that valve 100% and lower your return output till it is silent.

 

[DivingTheWorld]

My concern with the main drain is mostly because there is air (bubbles) entering the sump, and less about the noise. Frankly my MP-40's are louder, lol.

But I was stumped with the air. There is no way it is entering the line from the overflow and the fact that bubbles are still coming out 24 hours after re-start leads me to believe air is entering the drain pipe somewhere...even though it is not leaking at all.

So last night I ran a pressure test. I closed the main drain valve and switched off the return pump. I then capped the bottom of the main drain and opened the valve back up. This filled the return pipe and gave it some pressure from the full overflow pushing down.

And...a leak, not even a slow drip, but a fast drip. It's a glued seal between my valve and spa flex. I can only guess that when the water is draining down, it's moving so fast that it's sucking air through the leak rather than dripping water out. With the water not moving in the pipe, it has a chance to leak out.

So I closed the valve and uncapped the pipe. I'll let it dry out for a day, patch the leak, then let that dry for a day or two before resuming.

I really hope my trials and errors/discoveries will help someone else along the way!

On a positive note, I spent my evening setting up my Apex, connecting it to the network, installing the latest firmware, setting up Apex Fusion, and connecting the wireless adapter. Now once I get the salt added, I'll just need to plug in some probes and I'm good to go.

 

[D-Nak]

My concern with the main drain is mostly because there is air (bubbles) entering the sump, and less about the noise. Frankly my MP-40's are louder, lol.

But I was stumped with the air. There is no way it is entering the line from the overflow and the fact that bubbles are still coming out 24 hours after re-start leads me to believe air is entering the drain pipe somewhere...even though it is not leaking at all.

So last night I ran a pressure test. I closed the main drain valve and switched off the return pump. I then capped the bottom of the main drain and opened the valve back up. This filled the return pipe and gave it some pressure from the full overflow pushing down.

And...a leak, not even a slow drip, but a fast drip. It's a glued seal between my valve and spa flex. I can only guess that when the water is draining down, it's moving so fast that it's sucking air through the leak rather than dripping water out. With the water not moving in the pipe, it has a chance to leak out.

So I closed the valve and uncapped the pipe. I'll let it dry out for a day, patch the leak, then let that dry for a day or two before resuming.

I really hope my trials and errors/discoveries will help someone else along the way!

On a positive note, I spent my evening setting up my Apex, connecting it to the network, installing the latest firmware, setting up Apex Fusion, and connecting the wireless adapter. Now once I get the salt added, I'll just need to plug in some probes and I'm good to go.

That was my concern. If the air isn't getting sucked down, then it was either coming from the bottom or there was a leak. But it sounded like the drains were far enough underwater not to pull air in, and there weren't leaks.

I'm glad you found the potential problem!

My Apex is not only fun to play with but is the backbone of my tank. I love it. :love2:

 

[DivingTheWorld]

My Apex is not only fun to play with but is the backbone of my tank. I love it. :love2:

I'm noticing today that the Netgear gaming adapter I used has disconnected about 80 times since I set it up last night (currently disconnected). It looks like I'll need to set up a new wireless router downstairs for a better signal...

 

[Mr2KiEu]

Awesome build thread! How did I not see this thread before? Good to see another San Ramon Reefer on here. Do you go to Aquarium Concepts a lot?

Following along.....Keep up the updates!

 

[DivingTheWorld]

Thanks, I really appreciate that. My goal here is to basically help others through my mistakes, and occasional achievements. lol

I do stop in Aquarium Concepts sometimes. Nice staff and good selection of dry goods. For reef specific, I prefer Aquatic Collection in Hayward, California Reef Co. (Reef Raft NorCal) in Fremont, and Neptune Aquatics in San Jose. I still need to go check out the new Neptune's store!

I'm hoping to get my tank up and cycled by the Black Friday sales...

 

[mustangs]

my favorite place in the eastbay is diablo corals in concord its small but probably the best shop In this area I have been to as far as livestock health goes jess really cares about what he sells. All frags I have bought from him have done really well infact I picked up a nice plate coral this evening and he has some awsome zoa's right now.

 

[sh8g8delik]

Just finished reading the whole thread. Great work on the planning and execution of your tank build. Im also upgrading to a new tank and looking at your build inspires me. Don't know if i have the patients you have with your build though, I'd be so antsy to put in rocks and start cycling.

 

[DivingTheWorld]

Ok, time for a tank update. I attempted to patch the leak the lazy way by leaving the pipes in place and adding the glue. After 2 days of drying I powered it back up and it still leaked... So I pulled the pipe out (thank G@& I used unions) and found I had completely missed the leak point...

So a better glue job, two days to dry, reinstalled last night and wham, dead silent pipes!

So plumping is now finally complete. I went ahead and added salt and set up one of my heaters. My Apex is getting there. Even with Fusion there is a definite learning curve and I am learning a lot. I hope to have all the probes calibrated and installed over the next day or two, then I need to set up the ATO and start dialing in the salinity.

In a perfect world, I'll add sand and rock this weekend, we shall see...

 

[DivingTheWorld]

Ok, I need to vent a little...

Last night I calibrated and installed my pH probe. It was fairly straight forward and easy to do. It took me a couple of attempts to get it right, but everything worked out.

Then...the Salinity Probe...who at Neptune Systems thought this one up...

So measuring Salinity on my Apex sounded like a great idea. I can use it for alarms and turning off the ATO if necessary. So I bought the PM2 and the Salinity Probe.

Last night I pulled out all the instructions to calibrate it.

First, I find out that they didn't include calibration solution with either the module or the probe...

Second, I find out that in order to properly calibrate, you also need a second temperature probe...

Third, and the icing on the cake, the PM2 module cannot calibrate the temperature probe like the base module, so you need to buy a NIST certified thermometer to calibrate the new temperature probe you need to buy...

I swear, you can't make this stuff up! Of course I'm already to far into this to back out, so I now have the new parts on order and hope to get this probe working in the not to distant future...

 

[nly04]

OMG, this is the best document I seen so far on set up a tank. Also a lot of patient, patient and patient. Hopefully your patient can pay off. After a year of set up, hope it will turn out as you want. Happy reefing.

 

[D-Nak]

Ok, I need to vent a little...

Last night I calibrated and installed my pH probe. It was fairly straight forward and easy to do. It took me a couple of attempts to get it right, but everything worked out.

Then...the Salinity Probe...who at Neptune Systems thought this one up...

So measuring Salinity on my Apex sounded like a great idea. I can use it for alarms and turning off the ATO if necessary. So I bought the PM2 and the Salinity Probe.

Last night I pulled out all the instructions to calibrate it.

First, I find out that they didn't include calibration solution with either the module or the probe...

Second, I find out that in order to properly calibrate, you also need a second temperature probe...

Third, and the icing on the cake, the PM2 module cannot calibrate the temperature probe like the base module, so you need to buy a NIST certified thermometer to calibrate the new temperature probe you need to buy...

I swear, you can't make this stuff up! Of course I'm already to far into this to back out, so I now have the new parts on order and hope to get this probe working in the not to distant future...

You're definitely not the first person to complain about the salinity probe. I've read enough to convince me that I don't want to deal with it! For me, having to constantly calibrate the probe takes away from the benefit of having it. Instead, I built my system so that it won't allow the ATO to dump more than 3 gallons of water into my tank before it shuts off.

 

[DivingTheWorld]

So a few updates for this evening...

I updated my Apex firmware to the new beta version. I've been having lots of trouble connecting and updating Fusion and I also had trouble with Email and Text alerts. The update definitely fixed the alerts and so far I'm hopeful with the connection issues.

I also tested and added some more SeaKlear to my "cooking" Pukani dry rock. I'm looking to add it to the tank as soon as this weekend.

And last, I filled and started running my Carbon and GFO reactors. Everything looks good, no leaks. I still need to figure out how to dial them in exactly to the correct water volume.

Oh, and I also ordered a skimmer stand for my POV-DC1. I went with the CoralVue stand because it will put my skimmer at exactly 6.5" depth and I like the fact that it has vibration damping bumpers on the bottom. As soon as that arrives I plan to add the skimmer to the sump.

 

[mustangs]

I always found the apex to be a high dollar item that helps monitor things but nothing will replace weekly testing and water changes the probes do fail from time to time and as you mentioned can be frustrating to calibrate. I do love the fact that you have safety from heater malfunctions with the apex but I worked around this using 2 smaller heaters if one sticks on it will never heat the tank enough to do any damage. The 2 small heaters keep the system temp stable without worry.

I gave up with auto top offs also to many disasters. once a day manual top offs works well enough draw a line on your sump and just fill to the line with rodi when you feed. I have a simple pump in my top off reservoir attached to a DJ bar all I do is press a button till the water is at the determined sump water level and never worry about a auto top off malfunctioning.

Listen to your corals they will always tell you when something is wrong, the best solution for pollution is dilution. I sorta prefer to use the KISS method all the gadgets are cool but people have been keeping reef tanks for decades without them and that just means more funds for your squishy friends.

Im curious about seaklear but all I can find is that it is used to remove phosphates from swimming pools. I noticed your going to run gfo so I am not sure you need the seaklear chemical. seaklears website cautions it causes skin irritation to humans who knows what it will do to livestock.

EMERGENCY OVERVIEW
Clear to light orange liquid.
CAUTION: May cause irritation to exposed areas of body

The good old ammonia cycle followed by running gfo to remove phosphates when the cycle is complete works and there is no chance of some chemicals being left behind to harm your livestock. I would also wait to run your gfo and carbon reactors till your cycle is complete. your tank will look nasty for a while but that is a good thing it means the cycle is working. You can jump start the cycle by using a fellow reefers skimmate and dumping it in your tank.

Glad to hear you got your plumbing woes solved , keep up the good work can't wait to see this thing full of rocks and squishy friends.

 

[muttley101]

Hey DTW, Did you end up going with starboard for the bottom? If not, what did you decide on?

 

[Dapg8gt]

I always found the apex to be a high dollar item that helps monitor things but nothing will replace weekly testing and water changes the probes do fail from time to time and as you mentioned can be frustrating to calibrate. I do love the fact that you have safety from heater malfunctions with the apex but I worked around this using 2 smaller heaters if one sticks on it will never heat the tank enough to do any damage. The 2 small heaters keep the system temp stable without worry.

I gave up with auto top offs also to many disasters. once a day manual top offs works well enough draw a line on your sump and just fill to the line with rodi when you feed. I have a simple pump in my top off reservoir attached to a DJ bar all I do is press a button till the water is at the determined sump water level and never worry about a auto top off malfunctioning.

Listen to your corals they will always tell you when something is wrong, the best solution for pollution is dilution. I sorta prefer to use the KISS method all the gadgets are cool but people have been keeping reef tanks for decades without them and that just means more funds for your squishy friends.

Im curious about seaklear but all I can find is that it is used to remove phosphates from swimming pools. I noticed your going to run gfo so I am not sure you need the seaklear chemical. seaklears website cautions it causes skin irritation to humans who knows what it will do to livestock.

EMERGENCY OVERVIEW
Clear to light orange liquid.
CAUTION: May cause irritation to exposed areas of body

The good old ammonia cycle followed by running gfo to remove phosphates when the cycle is complete works and there is no chance of some chemicals being left behind to harm your livestock. I would also wait to run your gfo and carbon reactors till your cycle is complete. your tank will look nasty for a while but that is a good thing it means the cycle is working. You can jump start the cycle by using a fellow reefers skimmate and dumping it in your tank.

Glad to hear you got your plumbing woes solved , keep up the good work can't wait to see this thing full of rocks and squishy friends.

There a lot of threads/how to's on sea Klear on here and Google along with how to use it in a reef tank to remove the phosphates (what he is doing by cooking the rock) .

I personally feel the op is setting up an awesome system and seems to have done all his homework for a legit build.. Not sure if his build thread/documentation is the place to detract from his thread with things that don't really pertain to his plans or methodology that imo are pretty much all on point for a top of the line, reliable system.

That's just my opinion though and not trying to be offensive(really im not) but to me it seems like his plans and safeguards are a lot more sound than what your reccomendation's have been so far. It seems like this isn't his first rodeo.

Glad you got the drains figured out the build is coming along great doing everything educated and by the book pays off in the long run. I have a friend with that same skimmer and it kicks some serious poop out of the water.