DIY Icecap...its not what you think
- Thread starter reefburnaby
- Start date
reefburnaby
New member
Hi,
Availability of other T8s.
I believe Zoomed and Hagen make actinics in the T8 format. If you search around in this board, you'll find more info on this.
Brightness comparison.
I really don't know since I don't have an Icecap. This idea has brought up a big stir in our local club in Vancouver, Canada. We have a couple of members investigating this topic. Hopefully, we will be able to report some results in the near future.
Coralife.
I guess the easiest way is to drive the ballast with two 18" t8s -- basically replace a 40W tube with the T8. This should give you about 2 to 3 times overdrive -- and it will be quite bright. Just check if the ballast gets too hot -- in most cases it will be fine.
Update on my tank.
Well, its been running for about 3 months or so. So far, it is working quite well and the tubes are holding up. There is slight blackening of the tube ends, but it does not seem to affect the output. Currently, I am running 90 G with 3 overdriven NOs (total of 240W) - 2 6500K and 1 actinic. On a positive note, I have been able to keep SPS in this tank and have them grow. I have a couple of green/brown/red acroporas and montiporas -- all of them are seeing some growth. SPS are placed in the middle of the tank. I also have a variety of softies and LPS -- all corals are doing well. Maybe someday I will try a blue acro frag...and see how that fares.
- Victor.
Availability of other T8s.
I believe Zoomed and Hagen make actinics in the T8 format. If you search around in this board, you'll find more info on this.
Brightness comparison.
I really don't know since I don't have an Icecap. This idea has brought up a big stir in our local club in Vancouver, Canada. We have a couple of members investigating this topic. Hopefully, we will be able to report some results in the near future.
Coralife.
I guess the easiest way is to drive the ballast with two 18" t8s -- basically replace a 40W tube with the T8. This should give you about 2 to 3 times overdrive -- and it will be quite bright. Just check if the ballast gets too hot -- in most cases it will be fine.
Update on my tank.
Well, its been running for about 3 months or so. So far, it is working quite well and the tubes are holding up. There is slight blackening of the tube ends, but it does not seem to affect the output. Currently, I am running 90 G with 3 overdriven NOs (total of 240W) - 2 6500K and 1 actinic. On a positive note, I have been able to keep SPS in this tank and have them grow. I have a couple of green/brown/red acroporas and montiporas -- all of them are seeing some growth. SPS are placed in the middle of the tank. I also have a variety of softies and LPS -- all corals are doing well. Maybe someday I will try a blue acro frag...and see how that fares.
- Victor.
dattack
Active member
Wow interesting thread. Thanks a lot for the info because I might try it myself. I am also running two T8 electronic ballasts from a local light store with a ballast factor of 1.12. But each ballast can light only 3 t8 lamps.
I have a total of 6 T8 lamps in my 75 Gallon planted tank. So do you think it is possible and reasonable to cut it down to 4 bulbs and overdrive an extra 2 bulbs?
I have looked into some of these ballast from Home Depot and inland reef actually uses the Advance Ballast REL-2P60 for power compacts which can be found at 2-3 different home depots at around $20. I gave up on the this alternative because I decided to go for VHO given some board member recommendations.
I called inlandreef and they confirm they use this Advance Ballast.
http://inlandreef.com/Images/DIY/PCWiring/2x55 Wiring.jpg
I have a total of 6 T8 lamps in my 75 Gallon planted tank. So do you think it is possible and reasonable to cut it down to 4 bulbs and overdrive an extra 2 bulbs?
I have looked into some of these ballast from Home Depot and inland reef actually uses the Advance Ballast REL-2P60 for power compacts which can be found at 2-3 different home depots at around $20. I gave up on the this alternative because I decided to go for VHO given some board member recommendations.
I called inlandreef and they confirm they use this Advance Ballast.
http://inlandreef.com/Images/DIY/PCWiring/2x55 Wiring.jpg
dattack
instead of cutting down the number of bulbs you could also take a different approach and try what I am doing. reefburnaby is using one ballast to drive one bulb but what I am doing is using 2 three bulb ballast to drive 3 bulbs this way I can stager the start times and have it act as a kind of a dimmer also. I will be starting to set everything up in a week or 2 as I am waiting for my new tank to be built so I will have pictures and results of the light and power increase then.
if you want to see my original experiment with recorded data results and pictures you can check out this thread
http://www.aquariumpros.ca/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=186
Steve
instead of cutting down the number of bulbs you could also take a different approach and try what I am doing. reefburnaby is using one ballast to drive one bulb but what I am doing is using 2 three bulb ballast to drive 3 bulbs this way I can stager the start times and have it act as a kind of a dimmer also. I will be starting to set everything up in a week or 2 as I am waiting for my new tank to be built so I will have pictures and results of the light and power increase then.
if you want to see my original experiment with recorded data results and pictures you can check out this thread
http://www.aquariumpros.ca/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=186
Steve
hiddendragonet
Premium Member
Wow!!!!
Wow!!!!
:eek1: :eek2: WowEEEE!!
Victor, that is some spectacular info! I've been racking my brain trying to figure out what lighting setup to go with on my new tank. I'm doing much of it myself.
My new tank is 18" wide, how many bulbs do you think I could fit inside the canopy- 4? For that price, it's totally worth it! I really like the "dimmer" idea, too.
So let's see, if I could get 4 bulbs in - 3 6500s and one actinic (or maybe 2 & 2?), that's about as much light as 2x175 MH + 2 VHOs, do I have that correct?
Wonderful information!
Wow!!!!
:eek1: :eek2: WowEEEE!!
Victor, that is some spectacular info! I've been racking my brain trying to figure out what lighting setup to go with on my new tank. I'm doing much of it myself.
My new tank is 18" wide, how many bulbs do you think I could fit inside the canopy- 4? For that price, it's totally worth it! I really like the "dimmer" idea, too.
So let's see, if I could get 4 bulbs in - 3 6500s and one actinic (or maybe 2 & 2?), that's about as much light as 2x175 MH + 2 VHOs, do I have that correct?
Wonderful information!
ReefDragon
New member
Has anyone actually tried the multiple smaller bulbs connected in series on a single ballast yet?
I'd like to try running 2x2' T8 bulbs on one 4x4' ballast, overdriving the 2's by a factor of 4.
Let's see if I understand this properly:
I would have:
yellow wires---{IIIIIIIIIII}--{IIIIIIIIIIII}----red and blue wires
Just connect the two pins from one 2' bulb directly onto two pins on the other 2' bulb?
This has the potential to rock in a major way.
Although I already have 2 2 bulb magnetic ballasts, this setup would pay for itself in the first bulb change!
-Jon
I'd like to try running 2x2' T8 bulbs on one 4x4' ballast, overdriving the 2's by a factor of 4.
Let's see if I understand this properly:
I would have:
yellow wires---{IIIIIIIIIII}--{IIIIIIIIIIII}----red and blue wires
Just connect the two pins from one 2' bulb directly onto two pins on the other 2' bulb?
This has the potential to rock in a major way.
Although I already have 2 2 bulb magnetic ballasts, this setup would pay for itself in the first bulb change!-Jon
possibilities?
possibilities?
I have an old ballast US Fluorescent SAX-275ES 120v 60hz 1.0amps (standard Lamps) .8 (energy saving lamps) High Power factor. The balast says it runs 2 -f96T12 75w 2-F96T12 60w or 2-F72T12 55w lamps, Is there anything that I can use this ballast for over my 60" tank?
possibilities?
I have an old ballast US Fluorescent SAX-275ES 120v 60hz 1.0amps (standard Lamps) .8 (energy saving lamps) High Power factor. The balast says it runs 2 -f96T12 75w 2-F96T12 60w or 2-F72T12 55w lamps, Is there anything that I can use this ballast for over my 60" tank?
afss
New member
Maybe no one ever thought of it . New ideas come up all the time, be a pretty boring place if not.
Reef dragon... I can't see how, in theory, the 2 2' bulbs in series would react any different than the 1 4' bulb. I am actually planning on doing this very same thing in the future, so if you do it first let me know for sure. Things in theory don't always work the way they are supposed to
Exactly how do you get a dimming effect from the bulbs when you runn them the way you are talking about stircrazy?
BTW any one that has done this or who has VHO's does your actinic continue to glow for a bit even after you turn it of?
Scott
. New ideas come up all the time, be a pretty boring place if not. Reef dragon... I can't see how, in theory, the 2 2' bulbs in series would react any different than the 1 4' bulb. I am actually planning on doing this very same thing in the future, so if you do it first let me know for sure. Things in theory don't always work the way they are supposed to
Exactly how do you get a dimming effect from the bulbs when you runn them the way you are talking about stircrazy?
BTW any one that has done this or who has VHO's does your actinic continue to glow for a bit even after you turn it of?
Scott
reefburnaby
New member
Hi,
Sounds lilke there some more interest in this little experiment. afss, good to hear that it is working for you.
hiddendragonet,
Let see, we have a 18" of tubes (I think they are 15W). So, let's assume we are using my scheme of a 4x ballast driving 1 tube, so it works out that we are driving 2.5X above normal (i.e. 80W vs 32W). So, 4 tubes of 15W (60W) times 2.5X is about 150W. If efficiency is about 86 lumens/W, then 12900 lumens...or about the same as a 250W MH. I don't think you have enough light...so you might have to limit your self to acroporas and yellow leathers. Those light loving mushrooms and polyps would not have enough light (just joking...)
So, it is not as much as you hoped for, but I think it is plenty for practical purposes
Reefdragon,
I haven't tried lighting two bulbs in series, but there should be enough spike to light both of them -- especially when you overdrive. Given it a try.
BOBG,
Your ballast is probably one of those electromagnetc ballasts (i.e. tar ballast) that can drive 8 foot (F96) and 6 foot (F72) tubes that are 1.5" in diameter (T12). You can try to drive 5 foot tubes since the operating conditions for a 5 foot (F60) and the other two are very similar. Note that it is not recommended that your old ballast use the overdriving technique that is described here because it is possible that it is not an electronic ballast.
GACDIVER,
Why hasn't anybody come up with this ? I speculate that Icecap is doing something similar, but it is difficult to say if the two technques are the same or not.
To be honest, there are commerical ballasts that overdrive NO by about 20% or so. The problem with overdriving above 20% is that the lamps fail prematurely (i.e. less the hourly rating given by the lamp manufacturer == which is around 10000 to 30000 hours). Light bulb replacement is a large cost in operating lighting in businesses and industrial sites, so extending the lamp life is very desireable.
afss,
The lamps driven by electronic ballasts will continue to glow for a short duration because electronic ballasts have internal storage element. The element is intended to filter noise from the AC power supply and absorb the initial bump in a brown out condition (i.e. temporary power glitch). During normal operating and the ballast is just turned off, the ballast must discharge the power stored on the element...usually it is discharge through the lamps. This is probably what you are seeing.
Hope that helps.
- Victor.
Sounds lilke there some more interest in this little experiment. afss, good to hear that it is working for you.
hiddendragonet,
Let see, we have a 18" of tubes (I think they are 15W). So, let's assume we are using my scheme of a 4x ballast driving 1 tube, so it works out that we are driving 2.5X above normal (i.e. 80W vs 32W). So, 4 tubes of 15W (60W) times 2.5X is about 150W. If efficiency is about 86 lumens/W, then 12900 lumens...or about the same as a 250W MH. I don't think you have enough light...so you might have to limit your self to acroporas and yellow leathers. Those light loving mushrooms and polyps would not have enough light (just joking...)
So, it is not as much as you hoped for, but I think it is plenty for practical purposes
Reefdragon,
I haven't tried lighting two bulbs in series, but there should be enough spike to light both of them -- especially when you overdrive. Given it a try.
BOBG,
Your ballast is probably one of those electromagnetc ballasts (i.e. tar ballast) that can drive 8 foot (F96) and 6 foot (F72) tubes that are 1.5" in diameter (T12). You can try to drive 5 foot tubes since the operating conditions for a 5 foot (F60) and the other two are very similar. Note that it is not recommended that your old ballast use the overdriving technique that is described here because it is possible that it is not an electronic ballast.
GACDIVER,
Why hasn't anybody come up with this ? I speculate that Icecap is doing something similar, but it is difficult to say if the two technques are the same or not.
To be honest, there are commerical ballasts that overdrive NO by about 20% or so. The problem with overdriving above 20% is that the lamps fail prematurely (i.e. less the hourly rating given by the lamp manufacturer == which is around 10000 to 30000 hours). Light bulb replacement is a large cost in operating lighting in businesses and industrial sites, so extending the lamp life is very desireable.
afss,
The lamps driven by electronic ballasts will continue to glow for a short duration because electronic ballasts have internal storage element. The element is intended to filter noise from the AC power supply and absorb the initial bump in a brown out condition (i.e. temporary power glitch). During normal operating and the ballast is just turned off, the ballast must discharge the power stored on the element...usually it is discharge through the lamps. This is probably what you are seeing.
Hope that helps.
- Victor.
ReefDragon,
I am not positive but I don't think it would work.. it takes more to start two bulbs than one bulb so I suspect it won't even light but hey try it, as for output I think just because you have 2 bulbs in series if it starts it will take more power just to keep them going and they would be dimmer than a single bulb.
afss,
I am not so much creating a dimmer but more of a brightener.. lets say at 8 am I turn on one ballast and it drives the 36" bulb with 30 watts.. a hour later I have the second ballast come online and it over drives the bulbs to say.. 55 watts so it gets brighter.. and at night I have one go off a while before the other... same idea as a dimmer.
Steve
I am not positive but I don't think it would work.. it takes more to start two bulbs than one bulb so I suspect it won't even light but hey try it, as for output I think just because you have 2 bulbs in series if it starts it will take more power just to keep them going and they would be dimmer than a single bulb.
afss,
I am not so much creating a dimmer but more of a brightener.. lets say at 8 am I turn on one ballast and it drives the 36" bulb with 30 watts.. a hour later I have the second ballast come online and it over drives the bulbs to say.. 55 watts so it gets brighter.. and at night I have one go off a while before the other... same idea as a dimmer.
Steve
Silverfish
New member
Hey Steve, I really like that dimming/brightening idea, I think that I will try it on my tank.
I wonder about voltage back-feeding to the ballast that is off when running only one of them, and if that is even an issue?
So many projects, so little $ !!
Bruce
I wonder about voltage back-feeding to the ballast that is off when running only one of them, and if that is even an issue?
So many projects, so little $ !!
Bruce
hiddendragonet
Premium Member
Wups!
Wups!
Sorry, Victor, I gave you the wrong impression.
I meant that the tank is 18" front to back. Dimensions are 36Lx18Wx24H. So I could use 36" bulbs, I was just talking about how many bulbs could fit in parallel.
Can you give me an example of what lighting would be equivalent to using 4 36" bulbs each 4x?
Wups!
Sorry, Victor, I gave you the wrong impression.
I meant that the tank is 18" front to back. Dimensions are 36Lx18Wx24H. So I could use 36" bulbs, I was just talking about how many bulbs could fit in parallel.
Can you give me an example of what lighting would be equivalent to using 4 36" bulbs each 4x?
ReefDragon
New member
Update on the 2 smaller bulbs in series:
I tried it, running it at 2x, 3x, and 4x. It worked each time. I was using 2' T12 bulbs, since I didn't have any 2' T8s lying around. They started instantly, and at 4x, are insanely bright. The longest consecutive time I had them running was about 4 hours -- at the end of this period, the bulbs were definately hot, but I wouldn't say they were hotter than the VHO's I felt.
I tried it today using a pair of 18" T8 bulbs. They were extremely bright, and they didn't explode or anything for the hour I ran them.
I do wonder about bulb life, however. I'll be putting a pair of 2' T8s over my seahorse tank, and we'll see what happens.
Happy DIYing,
-Jon
I tried it, running it at 2x, 3x, and 4x. It worked each time. I was using 2' T12 bulbs, since I didn't have any 2' T8s lying around. They started instantly, and at 4x, are insanely bright. The longest consecutive time I had them running was about 4 hours -- at the end of this period, the bulbs were definately hot, but I wouldn't say they were hotter than the VHO's I felt.
I tried it today using a pair of 18" T8 bulbs. They were extremely bright, and they didn't explode or anything for the hour I ran them.
I do wonder about bulb life, however. I'll be putting a pair of 2' T8s over my seahorse tank, and we'll see what happens.
Happy DIYing,
-Jon
reefburnaby
New member
Hi,
Okay, 36" tubes. I think those are 24W each. So....that would be 24W * 4 * 250% * 86 lum/W = 20600 lumens. That would put you in the 400W MH or so. I still don't think you have enough light
Yupe, overdriving these lamps are fairly hot, but they are very bright. Everytime I do testing on them...I get blinded. I can't see anything for a minute or so... The lamps shouldn't explode...the lamps should burn out if anything goes wrong.
- Victor.
Okay, 36" tubes. I think those are 24W each. So....that would be 24W * 4 * 250% * 86 lum/W = 20600 lumens. That would put you in the 400W MH or so. I still don't think you have enough light
Yupe, overdriving these lamps are fairly hot, but they are very bright. Everytime I do testing on them...I get blinded. I can't see anything for a minute or so... The lamps shouldn't explode...the lamps should burn out if anything goes wrong.
- Victor.
