DIY Icecap...its not what you think
- Thread starter reefburnaby
- Start date
dattack
Active member
Re: just realized something...
Re: just realized something...
I think that's something people have to try themselves and most wouldn't advise it unless you know the wiring scheme of your ballast and sockets. I have tried it with T8 and T12, but have never tried it with PC to give you any good results.
Like most of the posts in this thread, it's an experiment at your own risk in terms of how much amp you put into your lamp.
Re: just realized something...
Big Worm said:
I think that's something people have to try themselves and most wouldn't advise it unless you know the wiring scheme of your ballast and sockets. I have tried it with T8 and T12, but have never tried it with PC to give you any good results.
Like most of the posts in this thread, it's an experiment at your own risk in terms of how much amp you put into your lamp.
Big Worm
to do this you wwould have to figure out the arangement of your end caps and see how the tube is actualy fired, as I had not even thought of this I haven't done it yet. I am going to be setting up my PC's with in the month and I will take a look at it then and see if I can figure out the pin arangment for my PC's. NO tubes are easy, 2 power in on one end and 2 ground out on the other.. as for PC's I am not sure at this point of time.
Steve
to do this you wwould have to figure out the arangement of your end caps and see how the tube is actualy fired, as I had not even thought of this I haven't done it yet. I am going to be setting up my PC's with in the month and I will take a look at it then and see if I can figure out the pin arangment for my PC's. NO tubes are easy, 2 power in on one end and 2 ground out on the other.. as for PC's I am not sure at this point of time.
Steve
Big Worm
New member
Steve,
Thanks for the reply and the input... you brought something that I did even think of. I will have to open the ballast enclosure and check out how the endcaps are wired. Hopefully the wires are color coded and easy to understand. The enclusure is easy to take upart - just 4 screws on the end.
Hopefully there is somene else that will reply and has already done this... that will take the guess work out.
Anyone out there that has actually wired to PC ballast in-line to fire one bulb????
Thanks for the reply and the input... you brought something that I did even think of. I will have to open the ballast enclosure and check out how the endcaps are wired. Hopefully the wires are color coded and easy to understand. The enclusure is easy to take upart - just 4 screws on the end.
Hopefully there is somene else that will reply and has already done this... that will take the guess work out.
Anyone out there that has actually wired to PC ballast in-line to fire one bulb????
reefburnaby
New member
Yes.
Actually, the safest way to overdrive a PC is to run only one bulb and leave the other socket unconnected. This will overdrive it by a small amount (like 30% to 20%). I have done this before.
If you want to go further than that, I can give you some pointers.
- Victor.
Actually, the safest way to overdrive a PC is to run only one bulb and leave the other socket unconnected. This will overdrive it by a small amount (like 30% to 20%). I have done this before.
If you want to go further than that, I can give you some pointers.
- Victor.
Big Worm
New member
Victor...
Victor...
Thanks for the reply... you were the one I was hoping would reply since you're the author of this thread.
I definately need whatever pointers you can give me. I have a basic understanding of ballasts and lighting. I've pretty much DIY every lighting system I've had. This project however, is a bit beyond my experience to just try without some help.
Let me explain what I want to do. I am setting up a 7 gal MiniBow Nano. I have a CSL 2 x 55w electronic ballast kit. Actually, it is two seperate 55w ballasts, each w/ an endcap, housed in one enclosure. My plan was to run two 32w CSL bulbs off of this ballast setup. Then I read this thread.
Right now I have one 32w bulb. How could I modify this ballast setup to overdrive the one bulb? How much output would you guestimate I would get with said modification? Do you think I would get more output (lumens) just running the ballast conventionally w/ two 32w bulbs?
Thanks for taking the time to help.
Alex
Victor...
Thanks for the reply... you were the one I was hoping would reply since you're the author of this thread.
I definately need whatever pointers you can give me. I have a basic understanding of ballasts and lighting. I've pretty much DIY every lighting system I've had. This project however, is a bit beyond my experience to just try without some help.
Let me explain what I want to do. I am setting up a 7 gal MiniBow Nano. I have a CSL 2 x 55w electronic ballast kit. Actually, it is two seperate 55w ballasts, each w/ an endcap, housed in one enclosure. My plan was to run two 32w CSL bulbs off of this ballast setup. Then I read this thread.
Right now I have one 32w bulb. How could I modify this ballast setup to overdrive the one bulb? How much output would you guestimate I would get with said modification? Do you think I would get more output (lumens) just running the ballast conventionally w/ two 32w bulbs?
Thanks for taking the time to help.
Alex
Adam
New member
Reefburnaby,
I don't know if anyone already pointed this out (I didn't read every post), but Icecaps underdrive VHO's by a good amount. The high frequency of the ballast produces almost as much light as a standard VHO ballast running at full wattage.
I think it makes the energy consumption issue moot. In order to be sure, you would have to figure out Lumens/Watt of your system vs. the Icecap running VHOs'
If bulb cost savings are the issue, keep in mine that Icecaps overdrive NO lamps significantly. In fact, NO's on an Icecap are about 90% as bright as VHO's.
I am running 4 F40T12 lamps ($3 from Home Depot) on an Icecap over my refugium, and it works great!! Cheap bulbs and lot's o' light for my lamp and electricity $$'s
Adam
I don't know if anyone already pointed this out (I didn't read every post), but Icecaps underdrive VHO's by a good amount. The high frequency of the ballast produces almost as much light as a standard VHO ballast running at full wattage.
I think it makes the energy consumption issue moot. In order to be sure, you would have to figure out Lumens/Watt of your system vs. the Icecap running VHOs'
If bulb cost savings are the issue, keep in mine that Icecaps overdrive NO lamps significantly. In fact, NO's on an Icecap are about 90% as bright as VHO's.
I am running 4 F40T12 lamps ($3 from Home Depot) on an Icecap over my refugium, and it works great!! Cheap bulbs and lot's o' light for my lamp and electricity $$'s
Adam
Adam said:
I know the higher frequency will increase the brightness but going from a tar balast to a electronic ballast that DOESN'T underdrive the bulb (both ballast pump the same wattage into the bulb) there is only a 10% increase in light out put (I tested this alread with a light meter), so I find it hard to see that the increase in frequency will make a bulb that is only reciving 67watts seam like it is reciving 110 watts.
do you have any physical proof from tests or anything to back this up? if so I would be interested in reading it as I can't find any comparasons on the net between VHO bulbs in regular VHO ballasts against icecap ballasts. heck IceCap can't even supply me with that info.
a NO bulb in a icecap is over driven ~1.5x the rated power based on a 40 watt 4' tube (this is from Icecaps power consumption claims)
what we are doing is giving results of 2X the power or more for way cheeper. we are using NO bulbs also. just more ballasts. even if I have to use 4 ballasts to run 4 bulbs the ballasts I am using are about 40.00cdn whare a 660 IceCap is 300.00 cdn and that doesent include the wires.
Steve
reefburnaby
New member
Hi,
Overdriving PCs ?
I would not advise overdriving PCs. I have used PCs before and those lamps are hot hot hot - when used in normal drive. So, overdriving PCs would create even more heat. I don't know...but I don t think it is too safe. If you are really still interested...I can provide some tips.
Adam,
Have you seen a tank with proposed overdriven lamps ? I am a little confused since we are also using electronic ballasts and we are also overdriving NOs. The main difference is that we are using off-the-shelf parts while others are using Icecap. I guess the other major difference is the cost.
I can tell that you like your Icecap and it is a good product. We aren't here to close down Icecap. We are here to propose an alternate route and give Icecap a little competition. In some ways, this may work out to Icecap's advantage. This forces them to do more research to improve their product and try to compete with this technology.
I heard that they have a new model out...which is better than the old one. So...the race has started.
And yes...I am almost sure that T8s (which is what we are using) are more efficient that VHOs (which are T12s). VHOs produce about 5000 lumens with 65W and the T8 overdrives produce about 6500 lumens with 80W. So...really...the T8s are a bit more efficient...wouldn't you say ?
- Victor.
Overdriving PCs ?
I would not advise overdriving PCs. I have used PCs before and those lamps are hot hot hot - when used in normal drive. So, overdriving PCs would create even more heat. I don't know...but I don t think it is too safe. If you are really still interested...I can provide some tips.
Adam,
Have you seen a tank with proposed overdriven lamps ? I am a little confused since we are also using electronic ballasts and we are also overdriving NOs. The main difference is that we are using off-the-shelf parts while others are using Icecap. I guess the other major difference is the cost.
I can tell that you like your Icecap and it is a good product. We aren't here to close down Icecap. We are here to propose an alternate route and give Icecap a little competition. In some ways, this may work out to Icecap's advantage. This forces them to do more research to improve their product and try to compete with this technology.
I heard that they have a new model out...which is better than the old one. So...the race has started.And yes...I am almost sure that T8s (which is what we are using) are more efficient that VHOs (which are T12s). VHOs produce about 5000 lumens with 65W and the T8 overdrives produce about 6500 lumens with 80W. So...really...the T8s are a bit more efficient...wouldn't you say ?
- Victor.
Big Worm
New member
Thanks Victor
Thanks Victor
Victor,
Thanks for the input... the nano I was potentially going to put the overdriven PC on is going in my office.... Don't need to be starting any fires at work - literally and figuratively speaking!!!
I will just go w/ my original plan of running two 32w bulbs w/ the 55w ballast kit.
Thanks again.
Thanks Victor
Victor,
Thanks for the input... the nano I was potentially going to put the overdriven PC on is going in my office.... Don't need to be starting any fires at work - literally and figuratively speaking!!!
I will just go w/ my original plan of running two 32w bulbs w/ the 55w ballast kit.
Thanks again.
Super cool thread!
Ive been wishing/longing for a better lighting system. I would like to make the jump from FOWLR to a bonafide Reef Tank.
Problem = COST + space in my canopy
I have a 55 gal. and space is a premium for me. I had decided on 4 VHO tubes and no MH's. Maybe on the next tank.
Now Premium Aquatics sells an IceCap 4 tube 48" 110watt VHO kit (bulbs included) for $331.00. Considering the bulbs alone are worth a $100.00 thats the nessasary hardware for $221.00 give or take a few bucks.
$331.00 / 440 watts = about .75cents per watt for the cost to convert to VHO
You setup appears to be less.
Could you break down the Total cost for your idea?
It looks like in the first post youve spent about $60 for a 4 bulb setup. Is this correct?
As long as the colors from the bulbs were equal, this would be a lot cheaper.
Ive been wishing/longing for a better lighting system. I would like to make the jump from FOWLR to a bonafide Reef Tank.
Problem = COST + space in my canopy
I have a 55 gal. and space is a premium for me. I had decided on 4 VHO tubes and no MH's. Maybe on the next tank.
Now Premium Aquatics sells an IceCap 4 tube 48" 110watt VHO kit (bulbs included) for $331.00. Considering the bulbs alone are worth a $100.00 thats the nessasary hardware for $221.00 give or take a few bucks.
$331.00 / 440 watts = about .75cents per watt for the cost to convert to VHO
You setup appears to be less.
Could you break down the Total cost for your idea?
It looks like in the first post youve spent about $60 for a 4 bulb setup. Is this correct?
As long as the colors from the bulbs were equal, this would be a lot cheaper.
reefburnaby
New member
Blaster,
No. I don't make reactors for King Ed. Sorry.
Sparky,
In the first posting, I think I worked it out to $40 CAD per lamp. So a four lamp setup would work out to $160 or $100 USD. I think stuff is more expensive in the US (at least commodity stuff), so lets assume it is $160 USD in the US.
$160 for 80W * 4 = 320W or 50 cents per W.
The one thing to note is that T8s are slightly more efficent than VHOs. It is probably 20 to 30% more effiecent.
This is assuming you need 4 lamps. I have a 90 and I only use 3. It is currently bright enough to keep simple SPS. So...you may only need 2 or 3 lamps.
- Victor.
No. I don't make reactors for King Ed. Sorry.
Sparky,
In the first posting, I think I worked it out to $40 CAD per lamp. So a four lamp setup would work out to $160 or $100 USD. I think stuff is more expensive in the US (at least commodity stuff), so lets assume it is $160 USD in the US.
$160 for 80W * 4 = 320W or 50 cents per W.
The one thing to note is that T8s are slightly more efficent than VHOs. It is probably 20 to 30% more effiecent.
This is assuming you need 4 lamps. I have a 90 and I only use 3. It is currently bright enough to keep simple SPS. So...you may only need 2 or 3 lamps.
- Victor.
Canadian Man
New member
Victor
Wow you only use 3 bulbs on your 90? is the height of the tank at the 24"?
Do you use 2 6500k and one Actinic?
To all..... Since reading this post i have converted my 90 to a seriously bright tank for cheep. I now have 6 overdriven bulbs on the tank. 2-10,000k 2-50/50 2 actinic. one actinic is only overdriven by a 2 bulb ballast and all the rest are from 4 bulb ballasts. I added another actinic tonight to get more blue and my corals are digginn the added sunshine. Thanks to all
Wow you only use 3 bulbs on your 90? is the height of the tank at the 24"?
Do you use 2 6500k and one Actinic?
To all..... Since reading this post i have converted my 90 to a seriously bright tank for cheep. I now have 6 overdriven bulbs on the tank. 2-10,000k 2-50/50 2 actinic. one actinic is only overdriven by a 2 bulb ballast and all the rest are from 4 bulb ballasts. I added another actinic tonight to get more blue and my corals are digginn the added sunshine. Thanks to all
Canadian Man
New member
Victor.....Sorry i read the first page and answered my questions
Canadian Man
New member
From what i have seen at my local HD i believe i have seen the same ballast and i think it was magnetic. I live in canada though, so it may be a diffrent one?
dattack
Active member
Canadian Man said:
It's definitely electronic. Actually, one runs 2 x55 W PC. It's the advance REL 2P60.
One was actually this ballast. I was going to go with PC but those T8 bulbs are much cheaper and they can span the length of my tank. They have a bunch of these ballasts at my HD for $20 each.
http://inlandreef.com/Images/DIY/PCWiring/2x55 Wiring.jpg
I wanted to run URI bulbs because the length of my tank is 6ft and I wanted a T12 that was six ft. Too much wiring involved with 4 ft lamp. I was thinking of adding 2 URI with these ballasts overdriven with 2x.
THe other one I am going to look for at the lighting store will be the REL 2S-110 that can run 2x96 W power compacts but it can also run 2x96 W T12. They are interchangeable.
http://inlandreef.com/Images/DIY/PCWiring/2x96 Wiring.jpg
I might get one of these an overdrive a 4ft T8 instead of the PC.
Still deciding.
I think I understand the cost part now.
Hardware for one bulb:
One ballast at my Home Depot $25.00
One pair of end caps $ 3.00 (where do you get these)
Wire nuts $ 2.00
Power cable $ 3.00 (where?)
Total for one bulb = $ 33.00 (Hardware only) BULBS EXTRA
$33.00 X 4 (number of bulbs I want) = $132.00
I found a 4 bulb VHO setup at Premium Aquatics that goes for $139.95 (no bulbs). Now this is just a few bucks more. Its the "LN" brand???
The thing I like about reefburnaby's idea is:
1. With one ballast for each light I can control each bulb (timers).
2. Replacement cost of bulbs
3. Scalability, meaning I can put up bulbs as I can afford it. I dont have to do it all at once.
Am I missing anything?
Hardware for one bulb:
One ballast at my Home Depot $25.00
One pair of end caps $ 3.00 (where do you get these)
Wire nuts $ 2.00
Power cable $ 3.00 (where?)
Total for one bulb = $ 33.00 (Hardware only) BULBS EXTRA
$33.00 X 4 (number of bulbs I want) = $132.00
I found a 4 bulb VHO setup at Premium Aquatics that goes for $139.95 (no bulbs). Now this is just a few bucks more. Its the "LN" brand???
The thing I like about reefburnaby's idea is:
1. With one ballast for each light I can control each bulb (timers).
2. Replacement cost of bulbs
3. Scalability, meaning I can put up bulbs as I can afford it. I dont have to do it all at once.
Am I missing anything?
