DIY kalk reactor idea.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8643137#post8643137 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mstewart


This is a very interesting thread. I too experimented recently with a DIY Kalkreactor. I used a 2.5 gallon carboy (about a 10 inch diameter bottom) with an aqualifter to move topoff into the bottom to "stir" the Kalk and an exit at the top of this airtight container. I really was counting on the large surface area and the slight movement to maintain a saturated solution. Unfortunately, after 1 month and several Kalk refills, I never achieved a conductivity of output greater than 1.5 mS (should be closer to 10mS). I have now gone to the "garbage can" method of storing Kalkwasser for topoff and I get a consistent 6mS conductivity. I'm sure I could purchase a magnetic stirrer to force my DIY carboy method to stir, but I don't think it is worth the additional expense even at used prices.
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Don't you think 10" dia is way to wide to work good in this manner?

Isn't the depth of your powder (and flow rate) going to detremine how saturated your water becomes?

If it is all about the depth of powder, then how deep is the minimum depth you want to keep? for a average water flow of 1 gpd.

It seem that a clear canister would be the way to go so you can monitor the depth.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8656045#post8656045 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Roland Jacques
Don't you think 10" dia is way to wide to work good in this manner?

Isn't the depth of your powder (and flow rate) going to detremine how saturated your water becomes?

If it is all about the depth of powder, then how deep is the minimum depth you want to keep? for a average water flow of 1 gpd.

It seem that a clear canister would be the way to go so you can monitor the depth.
Click to expand...

It's really all about surface area of powder exposed to liquid. The classic Nielson reactor accmplishes this by mixing and exposing all the tiny powder granules to water through intermittent mixing. I was trying to avoid the aggressive mixing part and was hoping that a large flat area of Kalk exposed to the overlying water would make up for the minimal mixing from water coming in through my 1/4" tubing. I was able to see my powder level covering at about a 1/2 inch deep level through the plastic container.

But, as you can see from my posting, this was a failed experiment. (OTOH the container and fittings only cost about $15 used, so it was a cheap experiment)

Folks here are saying that they do get adequate mixing by moving their R/O water upwards through a narrow column of Kalk powder and this is what spurred me on to try something that didn't require the expense of an acrylic cylinder. I wish that more of us could measure the conductivity of their output so that we can really compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges with these different devices.
 
How does the conductivity measurement correlate to PH measurement when trying to determine the level of saturation?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8656984#post8656984 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mstewart
It's really all about surface area of powder exposed to liquid. The classic Nielson reactor accmplishes this by mixing and exposing all the tiny powder granules to water through intermittent mixing. I was trying to avoid the aggressive mixing part and was hoping that a large flat area of Kalk exposed to the overlying water would make up for the minimal mixing from water coming in through my 1/4" tubing. I was able to see my powder level covering at about a 1/2 inch deep level through the plastic container.

But, as you can see from my posting, this was a failed experiment. (OTOH the container and fittings only cost about $15 used, so it was a cheap experiment)

Folks here are saying that they do get adequate mixing by moving their R/O water upwards through a narrow column of Kalk powder and this is what spurred me on to try something that didn't require the expense of an acrylic cylinder. I wish that more of us could measure the conductivity of their output so that we can really compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges with these different devices.
Click to expand...

It is about the surface area exposed true. but your had no water movement so exposer was limited. this way its about exposer to the MOVING/new water. That why yours did not work that well. This is why a narow tube may work good for preculating.

I think the depth & flow rate is going to to be the key to proper Interface of water and kalk. To get max saturation.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8657909#post8657909 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rdmpe
How does the conductivity measurement correlate to PH measurement when trying to determine the level of saturation?
Click to expand...

I'm no chemist but I can quote a very helpful one:



Two techniques that are largely unaffected by the presence of solids are pH and conductivity. Of the two, pH is much less useful because the change in pH that comes from a small change in potency is hard to properly quantify. Nevertheless, aquarists can monitor the pH of limewater to see if it still retains most of its potency. Instead of comparing to an absolute number, aquarists should compare the pH of the limewater in question to limewater that is known to be saturated (for example, two teaspoons dissolved in a cup of pure fresh water). While exactly how much the pH drops with a drop in potency is complicated due to the presence of CaOH+, as a rough guide a drop of 0.3 pH units is equivalent to a drop of a factor of two in hydroxide concentration (that is, a drop of a factor of two in potency).
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from: "The Degradation of Limewater in Air", Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-05/rhf/feature/index.php

Conductivity is perhaps the easiest way to monitor the potency of limewater, with a conductivity of about 10.3 mS/cm detected in saturated solutions at 25ºC. Figure 3 shows the potency over time of limewater in an aerated 1-gallon container. Clearly, the potency drops rapidly due to the formation of nonconductive calcium carbonate precipitate.
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from:"What Your Grandmother Never Told You About Lime", Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.php#11
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8660062#post8660062 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Roland Jacques
...
I think the depth & flow rate is going to to be the key to proper Interface of water and kalk. To get max saturation.
Click to expand...

Agreed.
 
I want to get a meter on this thing also. i think ill start by adding 8"-12" of kalk at about 3 GPD. maybe 4" should be min:confused:

i guess this is a reason to buy a conductivity meter.
 
Hey mstewart, thanks for pointing me to those articles. Very good stuff. I have a pinpoint conductivity monitor that should be able to measure the lime concentration. It normally sits in my sump so I can see my salinity at a glance. But it will be easy enough to place it in the kalk solution when I need to measure that...
 
For JustOneMoreTank...

Hi,

Thanks so much for your efforts in providing the guidance for such a simple device. I will be setting up a reef system in the next several months and am now trying to learn what I can, eliminate that which is not useful and focus on the components that seem to be doable for me. Your DIY Kalk Reactor seems to be just the ticket!!!

Questions...

I like the idea of a clear chamber in order to moniter what is happening inside. I also like the size of the 20". Is the added cost (cheapest I can find is $55) for this canister worth it?

Does a kalk reactor eliminate the need for a calcium reactor? If not, how are they different?

Thanks again for your help, Fred
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8661094#post8661094 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rdmpe
Hey mstewart, thanks for pointing me to those articles. Very good stuff. I have a pinpoint conductivity monitor that should be able to measure the lime concentration. It normally sits in my sump so I can see my salinity at a glance. But it will be easy enough to place it in the kalk solution when I need to measure that...
Click to expand...

Cool, look forward to reading what your getting. I wonder if a test with a TDS meter would be more helpfull. apples to apples and all.

please included your depth of kalk and flow rate when you take your readings.

underpar, id spend the extra $20 for the taller clear one. less replenishing, ...
 
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For those of you adding kalk directly from your RO/DI system - isn't it a bad idea to have a slow continuous draw from an ro/di system? My understanding is that a slow draw like that has a negative impact on the RO membrane performance. Is that a concern for any of you?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8663941#post8663941 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 96p993
As someone mentioned earlier in this thread why not just use this for the chamber?

http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=KM9331

It isnt as tall but is wider then the filter canisters, and seems to be ready to go out of the box (other then a couple reducer fittings)....any downsides??
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like mentions earlyer, it is not pressure rated, and if you hooked that up to a RO feed it would shatter. gravity/pump i say try it.

The RO feed for top off is "not ideal" because when RO/DI start and stop the release a little bit of impuritys (Personally i have not worried about it). ill ask D Rat to chime in on this question, I dont think it is hard on your RO system, membrane, DI... rdmpe, id like to no more opinions on this also
 
Hey underpar
Glad you found the Kalk reactor idea useful. It is a really easy project to make and very useful for your tank.
The Kalk reactor is different from a Calcium Reactor. The Kalk reactor is much simpler and does not require CO2, a tank, regulator, and pH probes that the Calcium reactor needs to have to run on your tank.
The clear housing is really nice but not completely necessary. You can search Ebay under Water Filter and find clear housings for much cheaper than what you said you are finding them for. It is worth it to me and fun to see what is going on inside the unit.
I would really like to build a larger unit soon just so I dont have to fill it or mess with it except one a month. Not sure what container I will be using yet. Maybe an Office Water Cooler container??? Like a 5g jug??? Dont worry I will post pictures if I decide to try and do it. :) :)
A Kalk reactor works well if you want to add both Calcium and Alkalinity to the tank in equal amounts. One issue (both good and bad) is that it will raise the pH of your tank. Some people have problems keeping the pH up so this is a big help for them.
You can only add to the tank about the same amount of water that is lost to evaporation with a Kalk reactor so this is limiting. You are just reallly replacing the lost H2O from evap plus extra Ca. If you add to much Kalk water you will lower the salinity in your tank. Watch that.
A Calcium reactor is better for high Calcium demand tanks (tanks with lots of SPS or Clams). Tanks that run Ca Reactors a lot sometimes have problems with low pH due to the effluent leaving the reactor (due to the CO2). Thus using both Kalk and Calcium reactors together works really well for these situations.

For more info on Kalk and Ca reactors look here:

http://www.myreefcreations.com/caabout.htm
http://www.myreefcreations.com/aboutnilsen.htm
http://www.barraquatic.com/cal.php
http://www.barraquatic.com/kalk.php
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-05/sh/feature/index.php
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-06/nftt/index.php
Of course www.reefkeeping.com has lots of DIY articles and general information that is really good on the Calcium and Kalk reactor topics.
Good luck and Have Fun. :)
 
I use a float switch and an aqualifter for my auto topoff....The aqualifter take water from a jug then into the tank. I was going to the aqualifter to get the water to the kalk then force feed it into my sump...would that work??
 
Did you guys know that lime is also sold for use in water treatment systems? I just bought a 50 lb bag of Calcium Hydroxide, suitable for drinking water treatment, for $3.99 at ACE hardware...
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8665764#post8665764 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rdmpe
Did you guys know that lime is also sold for use in water treatment systems? I just bought a 50 lb bag of Calcium Hydroxide, suitable for drinking water treatment, for $3.99 at ACE hardware...
Click to expand...

What's the name of the brand?
 
Here's a picture:

calcium-hydroxide.jpg
 
Thanks JustOneMoreTank for the reply.

If I understand you correctly, I may not need a calcium reactor. I had planned on using the "Snailman" DIY version. Perhaps I should wait until my system is up and running to determine if there is a need?

Thanks again, Fred

PS: your PM mailbox is full!
 
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