DIY LEDs - The write-up

[pheinzig]

to their defense, they are using cre XRE's.

however, you spend $170 for a unit that has 5 LED's. $320 for one that has 10 LED's.
Not to mention that they are simply on/off, no dimmer. So much for custom lighting...or even a late evening color scheme ect. By my calculations you spend almost $1,700 to light up a 72" tank. And only get 50LED's(which I am thinking is the absolute BARE MINIMUM). Or I can DIY my own system for around 500-600 less, have a dimmer AND have double the LED's.

I know I just answered my own question, but to be fair, I still wanted to throw it out there. If nothing else, to have someone else confirm or deny my logic.

 

[pheinzig]

oh, i almost forgot:
has anyone encountered a problem with salt/rust buildup on these?
They all look like the wiring is all exposed. Hanging so close to the system, especially in a covered environment such as a canopy, wouldn't this pose potential problems down the line?

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

to their defense, they are using cre XRE's.

That's like saying "my car has a 6 cylinder engine" and not specifying whether it's a 150 hp engine from a 10 year old Camry, or a twin turbo monster from a 911. There are cool white XR-E that produce 40 lumens/watt, and others that produce 100 lumens/watt.

however, you spend $170 for a unit that has 5 LED's. $320 for one that has 10 LED's.

Compared to DIY, that is, of course, expensive. DIY prices typically range from $8 - $15 per LED. A typical 10-LED DIY fixture might cost $100 - $150 at worst. Again though, hard to compare without specific criteria. What current are they running the LEDs at? What optics? etc.? Again, it's very hard to judge based on the specs they've provided.

Unfortunately, the aquarium hobby is far too used to making vast generalizations about lighting - assuming a 250w MH is a 250w MH and they're all similar. That's definitely not true. For HP LEDs, the potential spread in effectiveness, light production, power consumption, efficiency, etc. for fixtures with specs that seem the same on the surface can be VAST.

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

oh, i almost forgot:
has anyone encountered a problem with salt/rust buildup on these?
They all look like the wiring is all exposed. Hanging so close to the system, especially in a covered environment such as a canopy, wouldn't this pose potential problems down the line?

Most people are (or SHOULD be) using splash shields. Indeed, it is important to provide some level of protection from corrosion due to the moist environment. I've had fixtures that were covered in crud (enough to look dangerous) but they were unprotected and inches above the water. Other fixtures that were protected looked brand new after that time frame.

 

[ErikS]

oh, i almost forgot:
has anyone encountered a problem with salt/rust buildup on these?
They all look like the wiring is all exposed. Hanging so close to the system, especially in a covered environment such as a canopy, wouldn't this pose potential problems down the line?

You could something like liquid tape or plasti dip to cover the connections, if you use optics that would cover the LEDs.

Most people are (or SHOULD be) using splash shields. Indeed, it is important to provide some level of protection from corrosion due to the moist environment. I've had fixtures that were covered in crud (enough to look dangerous) but they were unprotected and inches above the water. Other fixtures that were protected looked brand new after that time frame.

Which brings up a point/question..............splash shields do just that - good for splashes, they do nothing for the warm moist air.............I gather given there's no posts on this in close to 200 pages it's not been an issue? Too new for true long term data?

 

[cmbspd]

I'll answer at least some of my questions so that others can see...

Wow, I just made my first LED light last night. It looks incredible and was so easy, thanks to all the great instructions on this and Taqpol's threads. Now I'm really motivated to put LED on both of my tanks. I have three questions to help me finish:

1) I'm using the rapidled kit with Mean well drivers. I've read that using too many drivers (~8) can cause issues with wires overheating. Does this apply to drivers on separate circuits? I.e. is 6 drivers each on two different tanks a problem?

Multiple circuits won't overcome the harmonics issue according to kcress
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=17000561&postcount=135
Thus, my second tank's LEDs will have to be driven by buckpucks or DIY drivers (ugh, more reading)

2) I want to secure the wires leading from the LED to the driver onto my heatsink so that they don't flex at the LED solder joint. I assume that I can just use any old epoxy here?

Haven't found any great suggestions here.

3) I don't see people grounding their heatsinks. Is this because they are low voltage DC? Is there any reason for me NOT to run a ground wire to it? Also, the Mean wells are non-dimmable so I don't see a way to ground the driver either.

All I found was a major argument here. The Meanwell itself is completely encased in plastic so I guess it doesn't need to be grounded. The heatsink should be grounded according to many just in case (even though it is low volt DC). But, at least one person would strongly argue that it totally depends on so many details of an individual's system that there is no stock yes/no answer...

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

You could something like liquid tape or plasti dip to cover the connections, if you use optics that would cover the LEDs.

Probably not a good idea to have that sort of goo near the LEDs.

Which brings up a point/question..............splash shields do just that - good for splashes, they do nothing for the warm moist air.............I gather given there's no posts on this in close to 200 pages it's not been an issue? Too new for true long term data?

The shield creates an environment around the LEDs that can be "maintained" if you really find the need - put a fan blowing into that space, supplying dry air from outside the hood, for instance.

 

[kcress]

Thanks cmbspd for answering cmbspd's questions.. Hey! ???

Anyway you seem to have a handle on the situation now.

 

[laverda]

I'll answer at least some of my questions so that others can see...
Multiple circuits won't overcome the harmonics issue according to kcress
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=17000561&postcount=135
Thus, my second tank's LEDs will have to be driven by buckpucks or DIY drivers (ugh, more reading)

I don't think this would really be that much an issue, unless you turn them all on at once.

Haven't found any great suggestions here.

Including a strain relief is a smart thing to do. Almost any hardware store sells little P shaped plastic clamps for this purpose in the electrical section. The wire goes though the loop and you screw it to your heat sink.

All I found was a major argument here. The Meanwell itself is completely encased in plastic so I guess it doesn't need to be grounded. The heatsink should be grounded according to many just in case (even though it is low volt DC). But, at least one person would strongly argue that it totally depends on so many details of an individual's system that there is no stock yes/no answer...

I have never seen a real argument against it. I ground all my light fixtures, including the reflectors on my T5s. Doing that eliminated getting small static electric shocks which can make you jump at the wrong time.

 

[pheinzig]

Those power supplies are an issue. You list 1.7 amp and 2.5 amp, but neither will drive 3 buckpucks at 3 amps. Also if they are not corrected for power factor you may have an issue with them drawing too much current at power up and popping circuit breakers.

My dad is looking to get these for his 29g Nano:
http://ledsupply.com/
* LED Type : Cree XP-G
* # of LEDs : 2 (+$20.00)
* Color : Cool-White
* Drive Current : 700mA
* BuckPuck Options : Dimming w/ Pot. (+$4.00)
* Power-Supply : 24vdc1.7a (+$21.99)

These are the 3 way LED's on a single star board.
Hes getting 2 packs making a total of 4x3=12 cool white LED's.

For the 20k blue spectrum hes doing one package:
* LED Type : Cree XP-G
* # of LEDs : 6 (+$35.00)
* Color : Royal-Blue
* Drive Current : 700mA
* BuckPuck Options : Dimming w/ Pot. (+$4.00)
* Power-Supply : 24vdc1.7a (+$21.99)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
His total lighting will be 12W/6B for just under $300.
Earlier you said the powersupply would not handle this many bulbs, yet the manufacture packages them as combo. Why?

 

[TheFishMan65]

You've gone from over 100 LEDs (mentioned before) to 18 (well sort of since you got three ups). This should be fine. Let me try an analogy. You can get 150 watt lamps and they work. Now plug 15 into a wall. What happens? The circuit breaker goes. Each lamp draws 1.25 amps together they draw 18.75 and there goes the 15 amp breaker. One or two lamps good, but at some point you reach a limit. So the power supplies above will work fine it you use one or 2 or maybe 5, maybe 10 I really don't know.

For the 108 LED fixture you mentioned before it looked like you were heading down the lines of needing 18 - you had picked some pretty low current version if I remember right. Maybe it would work maybe not. I am not an expert on power supplies I sort of understand the risk and I am trying to pass it on. Maybe kcress will chime in. He has a better understanding of this than I do.

 

[pheinzig]

ok. that makes complete sense.

I do know that the circuit breakers in our house are at 20.
This would explain why Im alwyas tripping the GFO, I think they are meant to pop just below the circut breakers.

4powerheads, 4heaters,lights,skimmer,return pump,carbon reactor divided amongst 2x20 amp lines. Guess 20 amps still isnt enough.

I would like to wire in something beefy for the aquarium room.
A personal line with power control box. Maybe in the 30-40 amp range.

 

[TheFishMan65]

First usually only kitchens and bathrooms are 20. Most other rooms are 15, but it varies by house. I think you mean GFI or GFIC. If this is blowing there could be a real problem. GFI blow when the current path is interrupted and flows through the the power and ground path rather than the power and neutral path. It could just be a faulty GFI, you might try replacing it and see if the problem goes away. Otherwise you could have an intermittent path from power to ground. Let's make something up. Let's assume the cord to a power supply is damaged and is supplying power to the water. Now let's say you have automatic water changes. So when you dump the conductive water down the drain it hits a metal pipe and makes a path to ground. Poof GFI goes. Now if you put your hand in the water you are fine UNLESS you touch something that is grounded (reflector for your lights ?) NOW YOU ARE THE PATH. You risk being shocked or electrocuted. It maybe nothing more than water splashed into a open electrical plug, once it evaporated the problem goes away. You really should look into this.

 

[pheinzig]

First usually only kitchens and bathrooms are 20. Most other rooms are 15, but it varies by house. I think you mean GFI or GFIC. If this is blowing there could be a real problem. GFI blow when the current path is interrupted and flows through the the power and ground path rather than the power and neutral path. It could just be a faulty GFI, you might try replacing it and see if the problem goes away.

Custom house. Dad never does less than 20 unless its for specific needs. ie 20 is standard for everything he does.

It could be a faulty GFI, the building is 25 years old. The aquarium room is on a concrete floor, therefore, so much as a fart of resistance and "Poof".
Its aggravating, but Ive found reducing the number of things plugged into the outlet has pretty much eliminated the GFI popping. It took me about a month of trial and error, but since Ive reduced and divided the load ive had no more cutoffs. The problem is, im using two outlets(4 slots each) and I really need more. Id really like to get a nice pro looking control board with several separate lines at 20 amps a peice wired into the room.

 

[kcress]

As for a bunch of switching supplies in a house here's where I discussed the hazards:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16978586&postcount=86


pheinzig; Your GFI nuisance tripping: A lot of devices leak small amounts of current to ground, which is exactly what a GFI is watching for. When the amount reaches a predetermined level it trips. Notorious items that do this are light fixtures, large pump motors, and VFDs. Also anything with a switching supply that has a three prong plug often has a lot of leakage.

Some of the aforementioned devices have so much leakage that a GFI will trip whenever they're turned on!

In cases where you have lots of things plugged in and you get nuisance trips, what's happened is that the various small leaks are adding up to the tripping level. The best solution is to just add another GFI outlet. You can even have two in a single four outlet box if the box has room.

 

[The Grim Reefer]

So what wattage of soldering irons and what tips are you guys using? I finally finished with about all the soldering but it seemed like the further I got into the project the worse my solder joints looked. Managed to get all but the power supply leads done without killing any LED's, knock on wood.

 

[ErikS]

Probably not a good idea to have that sort of goo near the LEDs.

The shield creates an environment around the LEDs that can be "maintained" if you really find the need - put a fan blowing into that space, supplying dry air from outside the hood, for instance.

Well I wasn't suggesting putting it on with a roller :lmao: but I get the point.

There might be some dry space on smaller tanks, but even with outside ventilation there is little around larger tanks. I guess time will tell, given the OP was only a year ago.................

As for a bunch of switching supplies in a house here's where I discussed the hazards:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16978586&postcount=86

Thanks, that's the very post that set off the "concern" alarm. I only plan on a max of 6, 3 ea on separate 20a circuits...............just making certain.

So what wattage of soldering irons and what tips are you guys using? I finally finished with about all the soldering but it seemed like the further I got into the project the worse my solder joints looked. Managed to get all but the power supply leads done without killing any LED's, knock on wood.

:lmao: I have to write this one down, first time I can remember Grim asking for help as opposed to giving it :lmao:

I use the el-cheapo Weller WLC100 - 40w...............I can honestly say heat isn't the issue :hmm2: The issue is certainly the operator - same for me they seem to be getting worse with practice Even worse in my case I had to re-do 1/2 the connections as the optics for the XPGs require the scews/connections to be in a certain place.

 

[hllywd]

So what wattage of soldering irons and what tips are you guys using? I finally finished with about all the soldering but it seemed like the further I got into the project the worse my solder joints looked. Managed to get all but the power supply leads done without killing any LED's, knock on wood.

I found a Weller WLC100 at the local Sears store for $50. I don't like the tip and haven't got a new one yet but it worked great wiring my first array. It's 40W and has plenty of power to tin the LED pads on the heatsink almost instantly at about 2/3 full power. Radio Shack has a fixed power 40W soldering station for $22 that I bet would work as well... no power adjustment though.

Tim

 

[Neogenocide]

So what wattage of soldering irons and what tips are you guys using? I finally finished with about all the soldering but it seemed like the further I got into the project the worse my solder joints looked. Managed to get all but the power supply leads done without killing any LED's, knock on wood.

Were you cleaning the tip throughout the process? I'm using a 35 watt RadioCrap iron, it works well for this type of project. I need to buy a real iron one of these days..............

Scott

 

[Reef_Matrix29]

I found a Weller WLC100 at the local Sears store for $50. I don't like the tip and haven't got a new one yet but it worked great wiring my first array. It's 40W and has plenty of power to tin the LED pads on the heatsink almost instantly at about 2/3 full power. Radio Shack has a fixed power 40W soldering station for $22 that I bet would work as well... no power adjustment though.

Tim

+1

Radio shack couldn't figure out what I was building with the random things I kept coming in to buy :spin2: