DIY LEDs - The write-up

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Power supply?

Power supply?

What power supply do I need (V, A, and W) for each LED setup?
I will use 30 Royal Blue and 30 Cool White, all LUXEON Rebel with dimmable buckpucks. Thanks

2043613510034799017OEpIip_th.jpg



http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2043613510034799017OEpIip
 
Last edited:
The picture/schematic is very hard to read, do you have another image? Also, the type of power supply is up to you and there is no right or wrong one; instead, it is selectable based on the number of LED's you want to power per string, dimming (optional) and perhaps being able to wire directly into the home socket. What options appeal to you would be the better way to decide on the power supply in my opinion.
 
Der wille zur macht
Thanks for the quick respond and hardware suggestion. I already thought that to spread them will be right. The amount of LEDs I estimated from other posts here. I tried to find a rule of thumb in the whole thing. First I thought to go with what I need for Watts by using T5 or MH. This is definitely not applicable. In Europe we were used to 1Watt/1Liter (somehow). So I was looking for something like Gallon/LED. This is not working in my opinion and I always got a one third higher number of LEDs than what the average used is. Now if I look at all posts where people introduce amounts of LED together with their tank sizing and not only with volume(and not only in this forum), it appears to me like there is an context to surface area and LED number, regardless to the tank depth. It appears to me now like 12LEDs/1sq.feet or for metric 12LEDs/900sq.cm. So far I didn't find any post where somebody complains to have an insufficient number of LEDs. Even clam breeders are ok.
I hope I don't wrote something everybody knows and is know laughing about me discovering Columbus egg again!
What will you prefer to dim the driver or the Buck Pucks? It seems to me to be easier to dim the driver then in my case approx 30 Buck Pucks.
One command: A nice thing on the ProfiLux controller is you can adjust the 1-10V how you need it. For example 3,5-8,5V if the end device requires it for proper dimming.
 
MontyJack said:
Der wille zur macht
Thanks for the quick respond and hardware suggestion. I already thought that to spread them will be right. The amount of LEDs I estimated from other posts here. I tried to find a rule of thumb in the whole thing. First I thought to go with what I need for Watts by using T5 or MH. This is definitely not applicable. In Europe we were used to 1Watt/1Liter (somehow). So I was looking for something like Gallon/LED. This is not working in my opinion and I always got a one third higher number of LEDs than what the average used is. Now if I look at all posts where people introduce amounts of LED together with their tank sizing and not only with volume(and not only in this forum), it appears to me like there is an context to surface area and LED number, regardless to the tank depth. It appears to me now like 12LEDs/1sq.feet or for metric 12LEDs/900sq.cm. So far I didn’t find any post where somebody complains to have an insufficient number of LEDs. Even clam breeders are ok.
I hope I don’t wrote something everybody knows and is know laughing about me discovering Columbus egg again!
What will you prefer to dim the driver or the Buck Pucks? It seems to me to be easier to dim the driver then in my case approx 30 Buck Pucks.
One command: A nice thing on the ProfiLux controller is you can adjust the 1-10V how you need it. For example 3,5-8,5V if the end device requires it for proper dimming.
Click to expand...


I think you're pretty close in terms of calculating LEDs per unit of surface area.

In your case, I would get the meanwell ELN 60-48-D drivers, and trim the internal trimpot back until you get the desired maximum current. Then use the full 0 - 10v signal from your profilux to dim them. If you tried to "chop" the profilux signal up, you might get worse resolution.
 
krzysieks said:
What power supply do I need (V, A, and W) for each LED setup?
I will use 30 Royal Blue and 30 Cool White, all LUXEON Rebel with dimmable buckpucks. Thanks

2043613510034799017OEpIip_th.jpg



http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2043613510034799017OEpIip
Click to expand...



In your diagram, you are showing 6 LEDs per buckpuck. That means you'll need a 24v power supply.

What current are you going to be driving at with the buckpucks? That will determine how many amps the power supply needs to be able to provide. If we play it conservative and assume you will be driving at 1000 mA, then that's 5 A for each of the two power supplies you are showing (since each is powering 5 buckpucks.) If you build in a 30% margin, you should be looking for a 7 amp, 24v supply.
 
Der wille zur macht
Yes, to "žchop"œ the signal is not god. As an EOD tech I'm used to blow things up. :blown:But in this case I would love to have a steady light instead of a flash with smoke and sound. So that's the reason to ask here for help. All my other circuits are about to blow up stuff. Now I need something for years.
If I count it thru, I need 15 drivers! That's too much. Not by the money, (but also"¦) but I have just 8 dim channels from the ProfiLux and I will use just 3 max 4! Any suggestions?
 
You can run one signal channel from the profilux to multiple drivers, no problem. So, you can pick how many channels of dimming you want, and just wire it up that way. If you want all the blues on one channel and all the whites on another channel, just divide up blues and whites on separate drivers. If you ended up with 7 drivers of blue and 7 drivers of white, you could just run one channel to all 7 blue drivers, and another channel to all 7 white drivers.
 
You could check the specs on the profilux for max current on the signal lines, then check the specs for the drivers to see how much current they pulled, to be sure. But that data might not be available - the meanwell datasheet doesn't specify the current it'll pull on the dimming circuit. However, I really doubt it'll be a problem - most drivers pull extremely small currents on their dimming circuits - like a few mA at most. And, I bet the profilux can handle many times that.

The diagrams you are referring to on the meanwell datasheet are showing strings of multiple LEDs (in serial) paralleled with eachother. It's generally not an accepted practice to run high brightness LEDs in parallel like this, for several reasons. Firstly, if any single LED failed anywhere in your circuit, it would likely fail open. This would mean that the other strings would instantly get all the current that used to be flowing through the failed LED's string, which would likely fry several more LEDs, causing a major problem. Secondly, when you run strings of parallel LEDs, you are assuming that all the LEDs are 100% exactly identical. This is often not the reality with the types of LEDs we are using - there can be 5 - 10% difference from one LED to another in terms of the voltage required to get it to a certain current. What this means is that if you have parallel strings of LEDs, they might not all actually be getting the correct current. 5 - 10% difference doesn't sound like much, but a 5% difference in voltage can translate to a 20 or 30% difference in brightness! So, you run the risk of over-driving some LEDs, while under-driving others, which makes the whole fixture less efficient.

If you are handy with electronics, you can DIY drivers much cheaper than anything off the shelf, though it would be a lot of assembly work for a tank your size.
 
The Profi Lux manufacture is very supportive, so I believe that if I drop some detailed questions on them they will give me all info I need. As well as my German is much better than my English.
To the diagrams, I realized the risks in such a setup, but I didn't know the specifics of HD LEDs, especially not the drop of 5-10% between one LED to another.
I dint catch the last sentence. You want me to build my one drivers?;) I'm handy, but not this much! It will end like this=:blown:
 
der_wille_zur_macht said:
In your diagram, you are showing 6 LEDs per buckpuck. That means you'll need a 24v power supply.

What current are you going to be driving at with the buckpucks? That will determine how many amps the power supply needs to be able to provide. If we play it conservative and assume you will be driving at 1000 mA, then that's 5 A for each of the two power supplies you are showing (since each is powering 5 buckpucks.) If you build in a 30% margin, you should be looking for a 7 amp, 24v supply.
Click to expand...

THANK YOU, der_wille_zur_macht

How about Watt? is it important?
Thanks
 
Monty,

If you do talk to profilux about this, please share the result here, as I'm sure others would like to know, too.

All LEDs vary somewhat, but the variances are very large for high brightness LEDs, and as reef keepers, we are interested in getting the most output possible with good efficiency. So, if someone was designing LED lighting for a conference room in an office, or the inside of a car, they might not care about the same issues we do. And since most of these components are really marketed more towards those markets (i.e. NOT reef tanks), the documentation sometimes makes suggestions that wouldn't be ideal for us.

krzysieks,

Watts is just volts times amps in this case, so it'll basically take care of itself. You want to shop for a power supply that has the specific voltage you need (24 in this case) and can handle the amps you need, plus a good 20 or 30% margin.

My favorite source is www.mpja.com - the website is flaky sometimes, but they have a good selection and good prices.
 
Hi,

I have a 75G reef for soft and LPS that is getting transferred to a 120H (60x18x26H). I was planning on running 4 x 60" T5-HO overdriving on an ICECAP 660, but I will run off 2 60" VHO's in the beginning (from a previous abandoned 1000W 130G reef). Then I saw this post and I like doing DIY projects (I am running a PLC with touchscreen on the 120G).

Here is what I think would need:
- 30x Q5 LEDS
- 30x Royal blue LEDS
- 2x 24V DC 8.3A supply
- 12x LM314 with resistor to make a current source for each series of 5 LEDS
- 6x heatsink 5.25" x 12"

I like to make my canopy like a box cut in half with a hinge, so I can open it from the front or the back. That is why I would put 6 heatsinks (3 in the front 3, in the back).

I have a 16 output transistor card for my PLC, I could use a PIC to have 256 programmable levels of light with a PWM output from the current source.

I would drill the heatskink to screw the stars. A thermal double side tape piece would be safer than thermal paste.

Fans on top for the cooling of the heatsinks (I would cut openings on the top to make them flush). Maybe some fans not to accumulate heat inside the canopy either.

I saw the patent on the web, this will prevent the technology from getting to the market, just like Beta with Sony. The market is limited for reefs or planted tanks.

Is the spectrum good for growth of soft and LPS without optics and at 26" deep?

Is royal blue good for moonlight too, I could dim them to get the effect, and only use some rows?

With this quantity, any recommendations on current for blue and white, is 50/50 ratio good with Q5?

Any suggestions?
 
Oups, I meant LM317 for current regulator. Maybe I should light my sump for a few months before I build a big thing. My girlfriend is sceptical of the life of these.

What would you suggest to light a 50G 36x15x20, I was thinking of using a 5.375" Heatsink x 24" to put 16x Q5 LEDs without optics. Would the wavelength be ok for cheato?
 
Zythum, IMO, you will need more than 60 LED's for your array for a 120 gallon tank, I have 72 LED's (36 white -36 royal blue) for my 75 gallon tank and could use a bit more for better coverage. I just installed a T5 retro kit last night with 2 ATI aquablue special to make up for the light loss on the edges. I'm trying to imagine how you would arrange 6 heatsinks and suspend them within your hood. Might be better to do 2 large ones that cover the same space and allow for better heat dissipation due to greater continuous surface area. Even though you are looking to do soft corals and LPS right now, if you ever decide to dabble in SPS and clams, you will need more light and penetration than 60 LED's would give you, unless you are using tight optics and are not worried about columns of light.
 
Zythum, some thoughts:

Zythum said:
I am running a PLC with touchscreen on the 120G[/b]
Click to expand...

You should post in this forum about that, I bet lots of people would be interested.

Here is what I think would need:
- 30x Q5 LEDS
- 30x Royal blue LEDS
- 2x 24V DC 8.3A supply
- 12x LM314 with resistor to make a current source for each series of 5 LEDS
- 6x heatsink 5.25" x 12"
Click to expand...

I'll echo what wesley said - that's going to be a pretty low LED count for a tank that size. Going without optics will help keep the spread good, but still, it'll be on the weaker side. If you're really only interested in softies and easy stuff, it would probably be fine, though. Just make sure you space the LEDs evenly for good coverage over the areas you care about.

I like to make my canopy like a box cut in half with a hinge, so I can open it from the front or the back. That is why I would put 6 heatsinks (3 in the front 3, in the back).
Click to expand...

Not sure if I'm following you here - would you mount the heatsinks to the movable portion of the canopy, or would they be fixed in place? If you mount them to the movable portion, you're gonna blind everyone in the room every time you open the thing up! Trust me, these things are painfully bright!

I have a 16 output transistor card for my PLC, I could use a PIC to have 256 programmable levels of light with a PWM output from the current source.
Click to expand...

Maybe some of the other EE gurus can chime in here, but sending a PWM signal to an LM317 while it's got such a high load on it sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. Look at the datasheet for the LM317 you're planning on using, most of them show response curves that would make me nervous (the output spikes up and down every time they are turned on/off). If you want dimming, IMHO, you'd be better off going with a purpose-designed constant current IC that was meant to drive HB LEDs and take a PWM signal for dimming. Such a chip will be designed to have a constant output that varies based on the PWM signal, rather than poorly regulated spikes every time the PWM cuts on or off.

If you do decide to go with the LM317's, plan on heatsinking them, and pick a power supply that'll deliver *just* enough voltage to overcome the drop across your string of LEDs plus the headroom the regulator needs. Any excess voltage will be turned into heat, so you want to keep it to a minimum.

I would drill the heatskink to screw the stars. A thermal double side tape piece would be safer than thermal paste.
Click to expand...

Look at the thermal conduction properties of the material you put between the LED and the heatsink - most of the time, cheapy thermal paste is better than tape. And if you're screwing the LEDs down, you'll get good clamping pressure, so you won't need the adhesive properties of the tape anyways.

I saw the patent on the web, this will prevent the technology from getting to the market, just like Beta with Sony. The market is limited for reefs or planted tanks.
Click to expand...

This remains to be seen IMHO. The patent lawsuit was against one specific vendor. Meanwhile, there are at least half a dozen other vendors doing the same thing, and the company that holds the patent hasn't even made a peep about going after any of them. Maybe they learned their lesson about bad press in a tight-knit hobby community.

Is the spectrum good for growth of soft and LPS without optics and at 26" deep?
Click to expand...

Spectrum will be fine. Intensity and coverage is another question, see comments above on # of LEDs.

Is royal blue good for moonlight too, I could dim them to get the effect, and only use some rows?
Click to expand...

You can use whatever color you want for moonlight. Somehow, people in the aquarium hobby have decided that moonlight is deep blue in color. In reality, the spectrum is pretty close to daylight, so the most "realistic" approximation would be to use a similar spectrum as your daytime lighting.

With this quantity, any recommendations on current for blue and white, is 50/50 ratio good with Q5?
Click to expand...

My suggestion would be to run blues and whites at the same current. Most people are in the range of 700 - 1000 mA, so choose your poison. If you stay with your low count, I would err on the high side and aim for 1000mA.

As far as ratio between blue and white, 50/50 is probably a good starting point. The good thing is that if you have dimmable drivers, you can adjust the intensity of one color or the other by a few percent to get the exact color you want.
 
Hi,

Once the tank is running, I'll make a post to show the PLC and it's functions.

I am an EE ;) . With an LM314, I would switch the load with a PWM, not the supply of the regulator. But I saw a better device, the LM3404HV, which is a constant current regulator that allows a supply up to 75V I could power 18 LEDs with this unit. The easiest way to use it would be to buy some development boards or build it on a breadboard with a little PCB for the surface mount IC.

I could use thermal paste, if I put the right uantty it shouldn.t fall in the tank. I was worried about the lead from the solder, do you guys cover it with silicone od electrical tape to prevent salt creeping on the solder then falling and contaminating the tank? I dont wanna put an acrylic window because it traps heat and reduces efficiency.

As for the number of LED on my 120G. I was planning on putting 4x80W T5-HO overdriven to 100W each, for a total of 400W. If I put, let's say, a 3" border all around and I space my LED 3 inch apart, I would need a total of 95 LEDs. At 1A, it's the same power consumption as the T5, it should also be stronger lights (better efficiency)? The optics concentrates the beam, but the efficiency must also be reduced (light is partly blocked by optics). My 75G currently has 2x 110W VHO and I have some pink SPS in the top 8 inches.

Yes, when I open my hood and it's dark outside, my neighboors ask about the intense blue light coming from the house. I was planning on six heatsink to reduce some weight (not having a 54" long heatsink, but instead 3 pieces 12" each in fron tand back. That would leave a gap between each heatsink, what is the maximum gap without optics before you get the flashlight effect. The heatsink would be bolted in holes made in the canopy, showing the fins on top. They would have to be flush to allow opening.

The location of my 120G would allow me to use a single piece canopy, I could mount it on the ceiling using cables and motors. This way I could use a single piece heatsink, but a heatsink measuring 56"x12" would weight a ton. I would have to lift the fixture to feed or clean the tank.

Thank you
 
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