DIY LEDs - The write-up

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I hit a little snag... Knocked the lens off one of my RBs last night finshing some wiring. It still works, but the lens will not stay in place now. I know somebody else ran into this a while back, maybe stugray, or kcress... I don't remember if there was a concensus on putting the lens back on but it feels like it has silicone dielectric grease underneath that I rubbed off trying to pick it up. Maybe a new dab of grease, clean the lens off, set it in place and hope for the best?

Tim
 
I was wondering, I read the article about AI coming out with the new tri-color pucks for their fixtures mixing royal blue, blue and white LED's. Made a ton of sense. But I saw that they are using the warm white XP-G as opposed to the CW everyone here uses. Looking at the XP spectral plots what differentiates the three whites is the amount of relative 'lift' there is in the spectrum from about 500nm to 600nm. They all share the peak at around 450nm which is where our blues/rb's have their peak. Most MH and even T5's have 'bumps' in the 500-650nm neighborhood. If we're trying to get the same kind of spectra shouldn't we be using the warm white or at least a mix of whites to give us the same lifts in the 500nm+ part of the spectrum?
 
George
I do not see in the specs that these are a dimmable driver. If they in fact are Dimmable, I might be interested in getting some for my 240. Perhaps we can go in together on them.
Another alternative might be http://www.thomasresearchproducts.co...2009-20-09.pdf Either the TRC-100S105DT or the TRC-100S175DT. I have no clue which would be better. Still trying to figure that out.

Laverda
Here is the spec sheet for the Meanwell HLG.
http://www.meanwell.com/webnet/search/seriessearch.html#led
They are dimmable up to the 185W model. I think that means you could run 60 3W leds in 5 parallel strings of 12. They also have the PFC function witch I think means you can wire several together and not blow a circuit breaker when they turn on. If I'm totally off base please tell me.
 
George,

Not totally. In rush decides if the circuit breaker will go when they turn on. The power correction (if I understand kcress correctly) means that you can have more on the same circuit. The way I picture it in my mind (note it is a little warped) is then with PFC it will draw 1 amp the whole time. Without PFC it might draw 10 amps for the top 10% of the sine wave (ok probably not this bad, but for this discussion it easy to understand). So now if you put two on the same circuit it would blow a 15 amp breaker, but with PFC you could have 15 (assuming nothing else and never more than the 1 amp). Does this help any?
 
jiriki,

The heat sink is running 150 degrees, but CREE is specifying the junction temperature which is something we can not read. As I understand it the junction temperature is inside the LED. It then heat sinked (sunk?) to a piece of metal that leads outside the of the LED. That is then mounted to the star board and heat sinked (sank?) to the backside aluminum core. Which if you did a good job is heat sinked to the heat sink. How far away from the center of the LED are you and how thiick is the aluminum. If you had a 90 efficiency at each junction (don't know if this is reasonable or not) then the junction is close to 205. I am sure someone will come along and correct something I have said.

That's a good point.. i bet they were reading the temp right up next to the LED itself.
 
I have read this thread and several others. I will try and summarize, because there is a lot of reading and a lot of repeated questions. Please realize a lot of this is from memory and my opinions so it could be wrong. As this goes on I am posting more and more quotes. I tried to get the original post; this means that you can click the blue greater than symbol and view the original post and then the post around it if you need additional information.

And thank you to all of the people (too numerous to count) that have supplied this information. I have added some information form notes that CJO took. I am sorry, but I do not know if they are direct quotes or just notes. I am not trying to plagiarize.

So I can keep track of it this is version 2.0

INFORMATION COLLECTED FROM HERE (and probably some others)
So if you are still interested in doing LEDs I recommend looking at them as well:
Related threads that might be useful:
There are numerous other threads relating to builds, but I think these cover most of it. If you think I missed an important thread (highly possible there are a lot of threads out there), please let me know.

LED Specs
Cree XR-E Royal Blue
Color: Royal Blue
Dominant Wavelength Range (nm): 450 "“ 465
Max Current (ma): 1000
Viewing Angle (°): 100
Standard Min. Flux @ 350 ma: 425 mw, 350 mw

Cree XP-G Cool White
White: Cool
CCT (K): 8,300 "“ 5,000
Max Current (mA): 1500
Viewing Angle (°): 125
Standard Min. Flux @ 350 ma: 139 lm, 130 lm, 122 lm, 114 lm

WHERE TO GET THE STUFF
Here are the most common location where people are getting supplies.
LEDs
  • Rapid LED
  • LED Supply
  • ETG Tech I find this site confusing so you may have to contact anna@etgtech.com. Also last time I checked the minimum order was $75, which is doable with a 12 LED configuration with lenses.
  • Deal Extreme The cheapest place for Cool White Q5 XR-E (~$4.50), but slow to ship.
  • Cutter They are out of Australia, good prices. I have read they are slow to ship, and at one point had real hard time getting you what you ordered.
Power Supplies


TOOLS
You will need the following tools (and some others probably) to complete this project.
Soldering Iron
Most of the recommendation is for a 40 watt. There was a nice discussion in one of the threads. If I could just remember where I would quote it. A post by der_wille_zur_macht says 40-50 watts.
Multi Meter
You will need to be able to measure voltage, current and you will probably want resistance. Almost all meters have these so it should not be a problem. However, when measuring current you will need a meter that goes to at least 1 amp I would recommend 10 amp.

And a few tips from kcress:
You can change the settings with the driver on. Be very careful you touch nothing when that driver is plugged in. Anything could be live, like those pieces of metal.

On your meter, if you change things over to current measure absolutely always power down. Remember if you interrupt the chain while the driver is powered - you will fry the chain.

Also, always unplug the meter current lead from the meter and replug it into the voltage position IMMEDIATELY when done measuring current. Not doing that will surly result in you picking up the probes and trying to measure a voltage while the meter is in current mode. Result - blown meter.


LEDs
Which LED
The whole reason most of got into this light scheme was for efficiency. Having said that there have been a lot of question like will this LED work. The thing to look for is efficiency and spectrum. If the spectrum is what you want (matches the bulbs in there now) then you are fine. Most people have picked the CREE led because of its efficiency of over 100 lumen per watt. If the LED you are looking at is not over 100 lumens per watt you probably don't want it.

How Many
The current recommendation is 1 LED for every 10-20 square inches of tank surface. Fish only could get by with the lower count, and a coral tank would need to be near the higher end. However if you take advantage of LEDs ability to focus corals could be spot lighted and cut down on the number of LEDs required.

Spacing
Currently the general recommendation is 2 to 3 inches between LEDs.

Color Mix
Currently the general recommendation is:
  • 50/50 for white XR-E and royal blue XR-E
  • 40/60 for white XP-G and royal blue XR-E
If I remember correctly this is 14k. If you want a bluer tank you more royal blue. Before you ask, there is no XP-G in royal blue.

Ultra Violet LEDs
It is believed that UV LEDs are not needed. But if you do here is a source that hlsooner found: UV LED

Forward Voltage
This always comes up and I found this real nice post that was talking about meanwells, but applies in general.
... In the datasheet for each respective LED, there's a V/I curve that lets you look up the voltage the LED will drop at a specific current. With this information in hand, you can calculate the voltage expected across a certain number of LEDs in series.

The numbers do vary a bit from model to model and even color to color, so it's important to look up the actual figure if you're interested in doing the math. And of course, clearly, it varies as the current varies.

Plus, there is a fair amount of variation from LED to LED, around the number quoted in the datasheet. So, LED XYZ might be quoted at 3.5v at your desired current, but you might find some that drop 3.55 or 3.48 or whatever. So, it's important to leave a margin of safety when planning how many LEDs can be run on a given driver.

In most cases, with the 48v meanwell drivers, you can just assume 12 LEDs and be safe. But if you're using some of the lower-drop LEDs (i.e. the XP-G or Rebels) and lower currents, and you want to really load things up, you might be able to get away with 13 or even 14 per string.


Wire
To quote der_wille_zur_macht, "œWire gauge between LEDs should be 20 - 26 gauge, pretinned, with good insulation."

Kcress found a great place for wire:
Stranded wire

HEAT SINK
Types
True aluminum heat sink. Most have used this so far but it is expensive and heavy. The advantage is that will a fan to get good air flow you won't have to worry about heat.
People are beginning to experiment with some the the aluminum channel found at local hardware store. Not a lot of reports, but I have not heard anything bad. The advantage are that is lighter and cheaper. I also think it would work better for convection cooling. If air can rise through your fixture with smaller pieces of aluminum you should get fewer areas where air flow is limited "“ also yet to be proven.

Mounting
There are three main mounting options (that I can remember).
  • Screw and thermal paste
    Screw make for the easiest changes later, but a lot of time to drill and tap. I personally did the screw method, but did not tap. If you follow me lead DO NOT tap with the same screw twice "“ the head will twist off. Oh what fun :).
  • Thermal Adhesive pads
    These may be hard to take off. Some have done it, but it was early and the longer they sit and the hotter they get The better they sick if I remember correctly.
  • Thermal epoxy
    To the OP: I just spoke with a rep at Arctic Silver about their Arctic Alumnia thermal adhesive. If you use this product, its on for life. He said its basically made with the same compounds as used in cement and if someone were to try and remove an LED from the heatsink that the LED itself would fragment apart before the adhesive gives way.

How hot is too hot
Kcress said this very clearly:
If you can keep your finger on it you're OK.

And I mean the bulk area of the heat sink not the edge of a fin. :rolleyes:

Heatsink Size
CJO found this information and I think he got it from lynxvs.
I've posted this before I think but it might be helpful. I use just a flat plate of aluminum as my heat sink. I did some calculations below to justify heat sink size. I attach a PCB directly to the plate using screws.

Max Junction Temp = 150° C
Power of Single LED = 3.4 Forward Voltage X 700 mA = 2.38 W
Ambient Temp = 70° C ( A SWAG)
Thermal Resistance between Junction â€"œ Case (From Data Sheet) = 10° C/W
Thermal Resistance between Junction and PCB (From Rebel application note) = 7° C/W
Total Thermal Resistance = 10 + 7 = 17° C/W
Total Thermal Resistance between Junction and ambient air = (150 â€"œ 70)/ 2.38 = 33.61 ° C/W
Thermal resistance between Case and Ambient air = 33.61 â€"œ 17 = 16.61 ° C/W

The amount of heat dissipation that can be achieved with a flat plate of aluminum is indicated below.

---see attached diagram---

Using a 3mm plate looks about 20 cm^2 per LED converting to inches is equal to 3.1 in^2 * 50 LEDs = 155 in^2 The plate I am using is 24 X 7.25 = 174 in^2 not sure if you can count both sides of plate as surface area… I also have two cooling fans to help

DRIVERS
There are two main type of drivers. I did not use either one so I did not pay a whole lot of attention to these. But before we get there, there has been discussion about running string that involved terms like series, parallel, matrix, and others (thanks CJO for reminding me about this fine kettle of fish :)). Generally it is agreed that each driver should drive one string as kcress says (I think this was all him):
You should only have one driver for each string. Period.

Any other scheme risks all the LEDs as soon as one fails shorted.

Two stings in parallel will toast them all. Why?

If you are running two stings in parallel and each string is, for example, 700mA, your driver would need to put out 1400mA. Now if one LED shorts the driver will continue to drive 1400mA into the two stings. But the string with the shorted LED will have a different voltage requirement than the good remaining string. This causes what is termed as "current hogging". The good sting will either go dim or OFF completely while the bad string may have 1200mA running thru it. The remaining LEDS will fail in seconds.

Once the entire string with a short in it has blown or one of the LEDs fails OPEN the driver will then focus on driving the 1400mA thru the remaining good string. Every LED in that string will also fail within seconds in a domino effect.

One driver per string!
OK, CJO was really interested in this and has a good reason, I don't recommend (and I think most will agree) this, but if you really want more information check the bottom for some notes CJO collected.

Meanwell
These are nice because the run off of 120 so no extra power supply is needed. There are several different type. The differences (I think) are how much power they can supply and how they are dimmed.
D Version
I have seen several question on wiring so since Stugray said it so clearly:
The AC wires that go into a plug don't matter which way.

The V+ goes to a + on the LED the - of that LED goes to the + of the next LED etc.

The - of the last LED in the string goes to the V- of the driver.

The two DIM signals go to your ALC dimming channel.

Set the dimming output of the ALC to max (+10V) then set the meanwell max current to what you want the LEDs to run at. DO NOT turn on the driver until you have turned the internal dim pot counter-clockwise all the way or you will blow the string when you turn it on the first time.

THEN adjust upwards. To measure the current properly you need a digital Multi Meter placed inline on the LED string to read the current.

Internal Current Adjustment
Some meanwells (like the D) have an internal adjustment to limit current. Der_wille_zur_amacht explains the different ways of limiting these very nicely:
To help clear it up. The driver you have has TWO ways to adjust the power that the LEDs are running at (actually three, but the third - voltage limiting - doesn't come into play when it's run as a constant current LED driver.)

First, there is the internal trimpot. Think of this as the max. limiter for current provided to the LEDs. The trimpot sets the max current (amps) your LEDs will run at. You adjust this internal pot simply by turning it with a screwdriver and reading the CURRENT (amps, not volts) on the output string, i.e. in series with the LEDs.

Second, there is the external dimming signal, connected to the external wires. This external circuit allows you to dim DOWN from the max current set by the internal pot. You control this function by providing a voltage signal to these wires, between zero and 10 volts. The LEDs aren't actually running at this voltage, it's merely a signal. The driver translates the signal into a percentage of the current set by the internal trimpot.

So, when your external signal source (ALC, whatever) is providing a 10v signal, your LEDs aren't running at 10v, they're running at 100% of the current limit set by the internal pot.

The internal pot is a set and forget kind of thing - you configure it when you install the system, and then you likely won't touch it again. Depending on your plans and which LEDs you're using, typical values might be between 700 and 1000mA.

The procedure Stu suggested above is 100% exactly what I would suggest. Turn the trimpot all the way down (counter clockwise). Wire everything up, with your external control signal set at 100% (i.e. 10v). Put a multimeter set to measure amps in series with the LEDs. (make sure it's well connected, you don't want loose connections!) Plug the whole thing in, and measure the current. Leaving your external signal set to 10v (100%), adjust the internal trimpot upwards until you get the current you want, which will be between 700 - 1000mA for most people. Then, unplug the driver, remove the multimeter from the circuit, close the circuit, and you're ready to go.

BuckPuck
These are nice because they are small, but a separate power supply is needed.

LENSES
I found a really good post by der_wille_zur_macht so I will just leave this with what he said.
Those rough guidelines are probably about right [referring to an earlier post]. It's hard to give really specific suggestions because of all the variables, and not every type of LED has every width of optic available (i.e. there really aren't any 60 degree optics for XP-G that I'm aware of). I might cut your ranges a little as follows, for "œaverage" depth tanks (say, 18").

80 degree: anything up to a foot
60 degree: 18"
40 degree: 24"
20 degree: 36"
anything smaller: on the ceiling!

As noted above though, concentrating the light with optics has other inherent effects besides the obvious one of increasing intensity and reducing spread. The spacing between your LEDs becomes a little more important as your optics get narrower, both from a coverage perspective and a "œcolor separation" perspective. When you have wide optics or no optics, it doesn't matter that you are alternating blue and white LEDs every few inches (typically) because by the time the light hits the tank, it's "œmixed" together well. With really tight optics, you can get an effect where shadows look blue on one side, and yellow on the other side - this is because the different colors of light are so laminar that they don't "œmix" evenly.

And, of course, you can get the typically undesirable "œshafts of light" effect if you use tight optics and big spacing between your LEDs. So, typically, as your optics get narrower, you are forced into a closer LED spacing to compensate for these effects, which COMPOUNDS the typical issues of using tight optics (less light spread and more intensity directly under the LEDs.) Effectively, if you want or need to use tight optics on a larger tank, you are FORCING yourself into a very high output light fixture, because you'll have to increase your LED count (decrease spacing) to get good coverage. The alternative if you really want a lower-output fixture is to use lower drive currents along with the closer spacing and tighter optics.

One final thought on optics that isn't brought up often. As stated above, tighter optics result in more laminar light. As you change from wider to tighter optics, your light behaves less like an MH and more like a laser. As this happens, we start to get some effects that may be considered desirable, but it's very possible for them to become overwhelming with very tight optics. Namely, shimmer and "œcontrast" in the sense of shadows becoming very, very well defined.

Shimmer is pretty much a "œgood" thing to most reefers, and you can control/influence it easily by changing the amount of turbulence on the surface of your tank. So it's a non-issue.

Level of contrast in the shadows might be considered a good thing, up to a point. As your optics get tighter, there is less "œsideways" light in the tank, which means that corals/rock located in a shadow will get less and less light. Up to a point, IMHO, this can be very desirable - the sharply defined, dark shadows can look really cool. BUT, for people with lots of corals, it can be undesirable if taken TOO far, because lower branches on big colonies will be receiving very little light, which might cause growth problems or die-back for the coral. This can be somewhat avoided by letting your corals grow up in the LED-lit tank, and/or creative effects with LEDs.

Which brings me to my last thought for this post (I promise!). The above "œdark shadow" issue could be easily thwarted if a few LEDs were angled with respect to the tank, instead of all of them pointing straight down. To date, 99% of LED builds have been BORING! :lol: The typical approach is to get a big heatsink and spread X number of LEDs evenly across it, then hang it above the tank. This gives a final result very similar to what you'd get with T5 and MH. A perfectly even and vertical distribution of light from edge to edge across the tank. LEDs let us BREAK FREE from that mold if we so desire! You can't bend a T5 lamp to get "œangled" light at one end of the tank and vertical light at the other end. BUT that is easy to do with LEDs! Us reef folk seem happy to have actinic lights coming on before white lights as "œsunrise" simulation. Imagine a tank where the "œsunrise" actually involved a narrow shaft of light piercing the tank in a nearly horizontal fashion. The possibilities are endless! We can position individual LEDs, or small banks of LEDs, at different heights, angles, and positions to get some really cool effects. Time to think outside the box!

XP-G can be hard to get lenses for.
XP-G Optics: I ordered the 60 degree optics from etgtech.com for $1.25/pc plus shipping.

I don't believe they have them listed on the site so you will likely have to email anna@etgtech.com. !

POWER SUPPLIES
If you are doing a really big fixture multiple power supplies can be a problem. See this post by kcress:
[*]Summary of multiple power supply issues)

SPLASH GUARD
I think the recommendation is anything less than two feet should have a splash shield to keep the spray away from the LEDs.

I started quote everyone else, because they are much more wordy and descriptive than I am, oh and did I mention it is easier. Most of this quoted information was added in as the question came up after the original post so rather than paraphrasing and trying to remember they get full credit.
 
Paralleling LED Strings "“ NOT RECOMMENDED
Maybe I should write this really small so it gets ignored. So for those interested here are CJO notes:

Series or Parallel

Fairly simple actually. With the same power supply, in this case for 4 LEDs with a forward voltage of 3.3v, of 15v.

The series circuit, uses less current draw from the power supply, and a single resistor.

The parallel circuit, uses a higher current draw from the power supply, and larger multiple resistors.

Another way to look at it, you need a larger voltage, lower amperage, power supply for series circuits. A smaller voltage, higher amperage power supply for parallel circuits. Assuming the same number of LEDs.

With power supplies, having less than the total forward voltage of all the LEDs, it is necessary to use a series/parallel circuit. In this particular case, the power supply is easy to come by, and the closest standard size resistor 120 ohms, is the exact size needed. The other circuits use the next closest higher resistor. (results in dimmer LED output, because less current will flow.

So from a design point of view, you design for the type circuit that will give the best results, in this case, although the series circuit is close enough, the series/parallel circuit with a 9 volt supply, will perform the best. (LED output wise, power is a secondary concern-- except for dissipation, depending on the size of the array)

See circuits below. If there are math errors, it is the calculators fault (it is an old TI-36X)

The greatest difference is seen in the total power (wattage) for the circuit.

----see attached diagram----

(kcress)
You should only have one driver for each string. Period.

Any other scheme risks all the LEDs as soon as one fails shorted.

Two stings in parallel will toast them all. Why?

If you are running two stings in parallel and each string is, for example, 700mA, your driver would need to put out 1400mA. Now if one LED shorts the driver will continue to drive 1400mA into the two stings. But the string with the shorted LED will have a different voltage requirement than the good remaining string. This causes what is termed as "current hogging". The good sting will either go dim or OFF completely while the bad string may have 1200mA running thru it. The remaining LEDS will fail in seconds.

Once the entire string with a short in it has blown or one of the LEDs fails OPEN the driver will then focus on driving the 1400mA thru the remaining good string. Every LED in that string will also fail within seconds in a domino effect.

One driver per string!

Drivers cost money.. How do you deal with this?

Two ways: The first is to string far more LEDs in a string. Using a 36V or 48V driver or at least 24V. 12V borders on the ridiculous.

48V/2.2V = 21 LEDs
36V/2.2V = 16 LEDs
24V/2.2V = 10 LEDs

Alternatively you could run strings in parallel but you would need to put a fuse in series with each string. As soon as an LED fails shorted that string would hog current, exceeding the fuse rating, and the fuse would blow. Promptly the full current would try to run thru the adjacent parallel strings and those fuses would also promptly blow. It would take some careful fuse selection however.

How to test forward voltage of individual LED's:
Wire them to a driver (you can do lots at once if you want). Run them at your target current. Read voltage across each one with a multimeter, by probing right at that LED's solder pads.

Really, the only trick to it is not blinding yourself. It helps if you have optics or an optic holder that leaves the pads exposed, because then you can easily look at the LED from the side without getting blinded.

(der_wille_zur_macht)
Parallel strings are not ideal in these applications, for a few reasons. First of all, if there are any tiny differences in characteristics in your various LEDs, you'll have inconsistent performance. If you have one string that ends up requiring 10.3v to drive at 700mA, and another string that requires 10.5v to be driven to 700mA, then the driver will end up over driving one string and under driving the other. Since even a small variation in voltage can lead to huge variations in light ouput, this might mean poor performance from some LEDs. In practice, I've seen 3 - 4% variation in drive voltage to achieve a target drive current from LED to LED (even in the same bin) which is enough to make me worry about performance in parallel applications.


A: (der_will_zur_macht) Daniel, fusing the parallel strings would prevent failure, but it leads to some other (potential) issues:

1) If the LEDs in one string have a different total forward voltage at a given current than the LEDs in the other string, they won't balance out well. This would be especially true if you mixed different colors/types of LEDs on the same driver. I'd want to carefully "bin" the LEDs I was using (set up a test station where you could drive a single LED for a few seconds to record it's voltage at a given current) to avoid this.

2) As you get more LEDs on a driver, you start to lose control resolution. Maybe this isn't an issue on a very large tank, but on a smaller tank, if you had drivers doing 12, or 24 LEDs each (for example) you quickly lose resolution to the point that it would be hard to implement the sort of control people are starting to show interest in. For an extreme example, I have a nano rig with 16 LEDs run at very low current. This is two of my DIY drivers, 8 LEDs each. A driver capable of doing all 16 wouldn't even let me dim blue and white separately.

From the sounds of your posts, neither of these would be huge stumbling blocks for you, but I wanted to point them out in case others were following along.

Binning LED's, adding Fuses (Kress)



You could theoretically run 4 strings of 48/3.5 = 13 LEDs.

Or 52 total.

You would be limited to 1.3A / 4 = 325mA per string.

To do it right though you'd need to do some additional work.

It would consist of some detailed meter work.

You would set up a string on a Mean Well and set the string current to 325mA using an ammeter.

Turn it on and wait until the string is warmed up. As you wait, use a Sharpie to number every one of them. Once warm measure the voltage across each one and write it down in a numerical table.

Do this for all 52.

Now take this table and mix and match the values to end up with the same total voltage in each string. You could do this many different ways. Use, say, the highest 5 with the lowest 6 if that works. Or just match across one low one in each string then the next higher one in the next string, etc, etc.

Once you have them grouped build your 4 strings.

You need to build the strings normally BUT you need to add fuses in each string.

Something like a 375mA fuse. Digikey F1504-ND in a holder F1467-ND.

Now when a LED opens or one shorts the fuse will open protecting the rest of the string.

Note that if any fuse opens they will all open, so keep spares.

If you can't pull this off as described, don't run parallel strings.

(der_will_zur_macht)
Skeptic, it's an easy problem to solve. Set up a "test station" with a constant current driver that can power a few LEDs at a time at some reasonable current, while allowing you to probe each individual LED with a multimeter. Turn the test array on, test the voltage drop across each LED, and write them all down. Then, arrange your LEDs into groups such that the total voltage drop for all groups is as close as possible. That's what I meant about "binning" your own LEDs. It should take an hour or two max, and it's cheap insurance if you're running parallel strings.

.2v CAN be quite significant (like 100mA!!!), but I'm not sure you'd see variation that high unless you randomly stacked things up in the worst possible way.
GEORGEDOPE; If you want to use that driver with parallel strings, go ahead. Add a 5 Ohm 10Watt resistor in each string. This resistor will help balance the string currents due to the inevitable mismatched string voltages.


Next turn down the voltage limit on the driver until you just detect some dimming. Then turn it back up a wee bit.

Now when one of the three 700mA strings opens the remaining two will theoretically have 1050mA sent thru them. But to have this happen the voltage must rise significantly, except, you just limited that voltage rise with the adjustment. The limitation will keep the current below 1050mA by a significant amount.

The only thing you aren't fully protected from is a shorted LED in one of the strings. The math shows that with those resistors you would probably see one string increase about 50mA and the other two drop by 25mA. Someday I will check that on a build. For piece of mind you can add a 3/4A fast blow fuse to each string.

Partial Summary
First, I don't think there is any difference between the cool white and royal blue (XR-E). Both are 3W, have a forward voltage of ~3.6v, and take a max current of 1000mA. However, I've read that the royal blue (and white to a lesser extent) are best run at a slightly lower current. Say 700mA. This extends the life of both types of LED with only a slight decrease in light output. This means that both colors could be on the same driver. But, most people don't so they can dimm them by color and turn them on at different times to simulate sunrise/sunset. I'll try and get confirmation on this.

The Meanwell, specifically that in the group buy ELN-60-48P, is a line voltage constant current source. It provides a constant 1.3A (-25%,+3%) to the LED load on it. It can handle up to 48V max on the load. And the P means it is externally dimmable with an analog signal. The line voltage part means it just plugs into the wall (90 - 240v), no additional power supply is needed. The max constant current is changeable by an internal potentiometer -25% or +3%. This means it can output from 1A to 1.4A or so.

LEDs have a current requirement and a forward voltage. For the Cree XR-E that is ~1A and 3.6v (on average). In series, voltage adds and current is the same. Thus, the Meanwell can power up to 13 XR-E in series at 1A (with the max current at -25%).

It can also run two parallel strings of 13 LEDs at 700mA per string with the max current set to +3%. Current divides in parallel so a total of 1.4A is being provided but each string gets 700mA.

A word of caution with parallel strings of LEDs. This is a recipe for disaster. If you aren't comfortable building this next item, don't run LED strings in parallel. What happens is if one LED in one string dies, then that string shorts and all of the current is sent through the other string. This either kills part or all of the LEDs in the other string or it severely limits the life of the LEDs in the second string. The higher current will work but it will also heat up the LEDs a lot. That is how they die.

But, you can do parallel strings as long as you build in a current mirror. Evil66 found and posted this in the Meanwell thread on nano-reef. Basically it forces the same current in both strands. If one strand shorts then it shorts the other strand too. The Meanwell thread:circumventing the filters is generally frowned upon

[EDIT]
Sorry for inerrupting, but I figured this was a great place to post. The top of page 150, but some one beat me to it.:)
 
jiriki, I don't know if you've seen my build or not, I posted a couple pics in the CORA forum, but at a lower power setting (~300mA) my heatsinks are luke warm to the touch running all day. After 45 minutes at ~700mA they'd be a nice hand warmer on a cold winter day. I don't have a better way handy to measure the temp, but nice and warm to the touch makes me want to get my fans up and running before I drive them like that for long. Too hot to keep my hand on would require an immediate solution from my limited knowledge on the subject!
I don't know much about the details of heat transfer from the LED junction, to the star, to the heatsink, but 151°F on the heatsink sounds pretty hot. Is that measured on the fins or the base plate? If it's the fins, I'm sure you can count on the base plate being even higher, and the LED temp higher still like TheFishMan65 said.

Tim

I measured the base plate with a digital thermometer. I'm mostly interested in the actual limits of the LED in terms of temp. XP-G LEDs lose 10% efficiency even after 100 F. 77 F is the "100%" efficiency according to the datasheets which I know no one here is going to be able to do unless some kind of water cooling method.

Not trying to do something crazy (or am i? :).. just looking for some factual upper limits... like operating temperature range.. I think I may have found it... just can't measure it at the juncture which makes a lot of sense. I'm having a lot of fun putting this stuff together... if I blow a few LED's on the way.. it was fun doing so :)

I did drive my meanwell with 14 LEDs for a bit.. It's past the safety zone but it works.
 
jiriki,

It is not lost it got top billing! I just figured i would post periodically to try and cut down on the duplicate questions and 150 seemed like an easy number to remember.
 
Laverda
Here is the spec sheet for the Meanwell HLG.
http://www.meanwell.com/webnet/search/seriessearch.html#led
They are dimmable up to the 185W model. I think that means you could run 60 3W leds in 5 parallel strings of 12. They also have the PFC function witch I think means you can wire several together and not blow a circuit breaker when they turn on. If I'm totally off base please tell me.

Cool, I had found a different spec sheet on Mean wells site that did not say they were dimmable. They look like a good alternative. I had searched Mean wells site for other sutiable drivers and did not find the Dimmable HLG series only non dimable ones.
 
I measured the base plate with a digital thermometer. I'm mostly interested in the actual limits of the LED in terms of temp. XP-G LEDs lose 10% efficiency even after 100 F. 77 F is the "100%" efficiency according to the datasheets which I know no one here is going to be able to do unless some kind of water cooling method.

Not trying to do something crazy (or am i? :).. just looking for some factual upper limits... like operating temperature range.

According to Cree, the maximum junction temperature is 150oF.

The 50,000 hr. average lifetime (mtbf) of the XR-E LED is based on the LED junction temperature being at 95oC (203oF) and the air temperature being 65oC (149oF) and it running at 1A.

If you want to see how the LEDs are theorized to react at different temperatures, take a look at this:
http://www.cree.com/products/pdf/XLampXR-E_lumen_maintenance.pdf

But here is something more for you to chew on. A general rule-of-thumb for electronic equipment is for every 10oC increase in temperature, the lifespan decreases by half!

If you are intersted in the thermal management for Cree LEDs, here is a pretty good paper:
http://www.cree.com/products/pdf/XLampThermalManagement.pdf

There are some pretty good things in that paper. I've emphasised one of their bullet items that I haven't seen mentioned before:

A number of important factors need to be considered when selecting a heat sink:

"¢ Surface area: Thermal transfer takes place at the surface of the heat sink. Therefore, heat sinks should be designed to have a large surface area. This goal can be reached by using a large number of fine fins or by increasing the size of the heat sink itself.

"¢ Aerodynamics: Heat sinks must be designed in a way that air can flow through easily and quickly. Heat sinks with a large number of fine fins with short distances between the fins may not allow good air flow. A compromise between high surface area (many fins with small gaps between them) and good aerodynamics must be found.

"¢ Thermal transfer within the heat sink: Large cooling fins are ineffective if the heat can't reach them. The heat sink must be designed to allow adequate thermal transfer from the heat source to the fins. Thicker fins have better thermal conductivity; so again, a compromise between large surface area (many thin fins) and good thermal transfer (thicker fins) must be found. The material used has a major influence on thermal transfer within the heat sink.

"¢ Flatness of the contact area: The portion of the heat sink that is in contact with the LED or MCPCB must be perfectly flat. A flat contact area allows the use of a thinner layer of thermal compound, which will reduce the thermal resistance between the heat sink and LED source.

"¢ Mounting method: For good thermal transfer, the pressure between the heat sink and the heat source must be high. Heat sink clips must be designed to provide high pressure, while still being reasonably easy to install. Heat-sink mountings with screws or springs are often better than regular clips. Thermoconductive glue or sticky tape should only be used in situations where mounting with clips or screws is not possible.

CJ
 
pheinzig- That 200mm fan actually needs 3.36w@12v to run at full speed, so with 4 hooked up to 1 6w/12v wall wart you're going to be driving them at roughly 45% max speed.

Hey thanks for catching that, I re-read the spec's. I was looking at the line above the amp's needed!

Easy fix. Ill order another wart to power them. 2 each would be what....roughly 88% power? My math may be a little off, but im happy with that kind of power out of these puppies.
 
If you overdrive the wart (if I am reading you correctly) you may fry the wart. Don't try and pull 3.75 amps out of a wart meant to supply 1.2 amps. It gets really hot and quits working. I don't understand it - the magic smoke didn't come out? :)
 
Hey fishman,
TY!
I think that pretty much consolidates 90% of the questions I have asked, or could come up with asking. That should really be a sticky somehow. Or have a link at the top of the thread dedicated to pointing people to that sticky.Im saving this page!
 
Sorry to be such a pest guys but for some reason I'm having way too much trouble finding out how much current my meanwell us producing. I want to run my xpgs at 750mA. Can someone give me a step by step guide on how to measure the current using a multimeter. I think I'm doing it all wrong to be honest and I'm just getting
more confused when I ask a question. Thanks!
 
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