DIY LEDs - The write-up

[S2minute]

Hi guys n gals, i`ve been reading...and reading. It`s overwhelming and amazing to see so many dedicated people in this hobby. I`m a noob but i have a big heart for DIY projects. My current light hood has 3x 250w Iswasaki 6500k MH/ 4x 96w PC blue and 03 and 2 110w o3 vho. Some of the ballasts have failed and i figure it`s time for change.
My tank is a 175 bow 6`/18"-24"-18"/ 30" top to bottom. I wish to achieve the same with LEDs as 3x 400W MH at about 10-14k...soooo i was thinking 108 leds 50/50 mix cree xr-e q5 3w and xr-e RB each on 60 degree lenses giving me about 12K??? For THAT id need 9 MW dimmables,(since i plan on dawn/dust/moon phase/with a RTC). ..but will that be enough leds? will the lens be correct? I plan on keeping SPS at mid level and on top and LPS on the bottom. What should the spacing be and i plan on mounting on 3 sinks so i can angle the 2 end ones,(but what size sinks should i use?).
Cree makes a xp-g q5 that maxes out at 1500ma should i use them instead?
Rapidled now makes leds with connectors so no soldering BUT those can`t be used with a lens . What about the 3up leds that give like what 498 lms?? Maybe use them? Thanks

 

[TheFishMan65]

S2minute, there is asummary near the bottom of page 200 that may help with a lot of these question.
108 might work what are you keeping - it is a good start.
XP-G are fine
3 ups not many have tried, but they may give too much of a spot light affect.

 

[chrisfowler99]

Checking with everyone. I am doing a massive 300 LED build for a three foot deep tank. I have used 60 degree optics for 2' deep tanks but not sure about this one.

I am thinking 40's with the fixture hanging 12" above water level.

Any suggestions would be great.

-Dave

I'm working on a build for a 31" tank. My plan, currently, is to mix 40 degree optics with 65 degree optics to attempt to avoid spotlighting. I'm not positive on the ratio yet...

I need to figure out a way to temporarily attach optics for testing...

 

[CJO]

ok it's my time I guess ... got the money n ready to rock !! lol

BUT I NEED HELP PLEASE ... lol

My tank:
125G 72x18x20
My current light: 3*150WMH 4*96W compact
I have softies n SPS (SPS medium and high of the tank)

My plan:
I have 2 brackets on the tank so I will do 3 modules of Leds
the opening between the brakets are 16x20
I had already 40 XRE CW and BR leds so I will do with the XRE generation

Question 1: is 90 leds will be enough ? I woul dlike to have a little better PAR than right now with my old lighting. I am doing the DIY driver with the cat4101 so that will be for each module 5 rows of 6 string leds.

Question 2: I would like to put the leds at about 10inches from the tank. The big question is what will be the dimension of the heatsink ?

Question 3: I will need lenses right ? if yes, what kind will be ? 40 degrees ?

Thank you so much for your help
Vincent

90 should be plenty. I'd look at using 60 degree optics since your tank is shallow. If you want, you could probably use a few 40 degree optics over your SPSes. As far as heat sink size, you want to be able to keep 2-3" between each LED.

Do you have a PAR meter?

CJ

 

[DFason]

After a ton of testing here are some conclusions that I have found with certain colors...

Cool White - Was a standard until NW was tested. Very bright and efficient but dull in warmer colors.
Neutral White - The new standard for white ( In my opinion ). A much more natural color that brings out warmer colors. Best with matching a 2:1 ratio with royal blues.
Warm Whites - VERY warm. Some people have used them here and there but not very effectively. Blaster stated mixing a 3:1 ( RB:WW ) ratio will bring out the Willy Wonka in you.
Royal Blue - A must have. When your working with cool white or neutral white is the go to blue.
Cool Blue A.K.A Blue - On the greener/blue side but very effective if used right. Mixing to many in an array will turn the tank into a box of Windex. These bring out the colors the neutral white and royal blues wont. Be careful on how high you run these as they do a extremely good job on the blue color. You can also skip the optics on blues to get the entire tank covered from my testings. Blue will blend very well with NW/RB.
Cyan - VERY green unless you are able to choose your exact binning. They can bring some wicked colors out but leave an awful green shadow everywhere. Even when clustered closely I would not recommend these to the average DIYer.
Red - Forget about it. Let the neutral whites do their job.
True Violet - Have not tested these and probably wont. I've heard some good things about them.

Combos and ratios that have worked for me.

12 LED Array
4 - Neutral White ( Running higher than the blues )
7 - Royal Blue
1 - Blue/Cool Blue

24 LED Array
8 - Neutral Whites ( Running higher than blues )
14 - Royal Blues
2 - Blues/Cool Blues

Hope this helps. Again this my opinion after doing hundreds of testings.

-Dave

 

[S2minute]

LEDs

LEDs

S2minute, there is asummary near the bottom of page 200 that may help with a lot of these question.
108 might work what are you keeping - it is a good start.
XP-G are fine
3 ups not many have tried, but they may give too much of a spot light affect.

OK Fishman Thanks!....so i`ll do this: 3 HSs, each with 60 LEDS,(5 rows of 12 leds). That`s a total of 180. 17 CW xp-g, 38 RB xr-e, 4 Uv, 1 red per section. Since i have an elevated reef platform that conforms to the shape of the bow front, i`ll use 20degree optics on the 2 front corners since it will be full depth in those sections. 40 degree optics for the majority since the platform puts most of my LR and sps in mid-level of the tank. The top/center section 60 degree optics,(it`s about 12" from the surface. Red led dead center each section with no lens, then the 4 UVs with 2 CW and 2 RB with 60 degree optics surrounding the red led. After that it`s just CW and RB. The 2 end HS will be angled in and i figure 1 MW dimmer for each 12 led string...so thats 15 MWs total. Does that sound right?

 

[TheFishMan65]

Based one DFason you want to drop the read and go with some/all neutrals. 15 Meanwells is an awful lot. There maybe problems with current draw. Do not try and start them all at one time.

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

OK Fishman Thanks!....so i`ll do this: 3 HSs, each with 60 LEDS,(5 rows of 12 leds). That`s a total of 180. 17 CW xp-g, 38 RB xr-e, 4 Uv, 1 red per section. Since i have an elevated reef platform that conforms to the shape of the bow front, i`ll use 20degree optics on the 2 front corners since it will be full depth in those sections. 40 degree optics for the majority since the platform puts most of my LR and sps in mid-level of the tank. The top/center section 60 degree optics,(it`s about 12" from the surface. Red led dead center each section with no lens, then the 4 UVs with 2 CW and 2 RB with 60 degree optics surrounding the red led. After that it`s just CW and RB. The 2 end HS will be angled in and i figure 1 MW dimmer for each 12 led string...so thats 15 MWs total. Does that sound right?

Based one DFason you want to drop the read and go with some/all neutrals. 15 Meanwells is an awful lot. There maybe problems with current draw. Do not try and start them all at one time.

I agree with dropping the red LEDs, but LED selection is very much a personal thing and will also depend very heavily on which models of LEDs you're talking about and which bins you get (this applies even to the commonly used cool white - there are a VERY wide spread in bins available). I really think it's best if people order a small number of LEDs and experiment before placing a large order - it's the best way to ensure that you get what you want and you're happy with your LEDs. Pay attention to color bins, too!

Agreed that 15 ELNs is a lot. At that build size I would be seriously considering a PFC supply.

Also you mention using 20 degree optics in a few spots. 20 degree optics are very tight. You'll get good penetration but beam width (coverage per LED) will shrink quite a bit. It's hard to have arrays with different optics look "even" unless you really fiddle with LED placement and optic selection. Of course if you WANT uneven light then you're all set, but don't assume you can lay out a grid of LEDs with even spacing, then slap on different optics, and get a consistent coverage. With narrower optics your intensity goes up, but your coverage shrinks.

 

[S2minute]

LEDs

LEDs

Hummm, i could swap out the CWs for Neutural and scrap the red . Also, i mentioned 15 MW dims because i was under the impression 13 LEDs was max for 1 MW so 1 MW for 15 strings of 12 LEDs.

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Get some cool whites and neutral whites (and some RBs) and try for yourself. Personally I don't like the look of JUST neutral whites, and I find that a mix of the two gives a nice "full spectrum" effect. But again it's very much personal preference.

You are correct that if you use ELN60-48's you will need 15 of them to power 180 LEDs. Thing is, ELNs are not power factor corrected, so they have a very large inrush current when you first turn them on, and once on they basically hit your home's wiring harder than the nominal current draw would suggest. This is really only an issue on very large builds such as yours - on a small or average sized tank it won't really matter, which is why it isn't commonly discussed. To be safe, you'd be best off spreading them across multiple branch circuits and not turning them all on at the same instant in time. Also, under-load the circuits you're putting them on and check the wiring to make sure it's not overheating.

Or, just switch to a power factor corrected supply.

 

[TheFishMan65]

I am starting to consider mounting options. I found these guys on line and called them for about $20 (plus shipping) I can get nice cable mounting.
Pendant Systems

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Someone (terahz I think) posted pics of an LED pendant mounted to a swing-arm mount intended for flat panel TVs. it was really slick.

 

[kcress]

S2minute; You should consider using the PFC MWells. You can have one driver running a lot of LEDs with good efficiency.

You have two good choices. Multiple fist fulls of the current DIY controllers being powered by a large PFC DC supply or paralleling with a little extra care.

Doing it this way trades off the depth of dimming with a savings of several hundred dollars of initial cost and likely hundreds of dollars per year on operating expense over a truck load of ELN60-48 - not to mention the space saved.

Here's a recent example using MeanWell HLG 240H 42B,
that I helped a fellow member with.

Assumptions:
Your LEDs are speced Vf is 3.5V.
You desire to run them at 600mA.

The driver you selected puts out up to 42V and 5.7A

11 x 3.5V = 38.5V
You should run a 1 ohm resistor in each string. 1 ohm x 0.6A = 0.6V

Total VF of a string is 38.5V + 0.6V = 39.1V which is comfortably below 42V.

So 11 LEDS and a resistor per string.

Now how many strings will 5.7A support?
5.7A / 0.6A = 9.53 We have to round it down to 9 strings.

9 strings X 11 LEDs/ string = 99 LEDs.

You need to use 99 White and 198 Blue for that current thru 3.5V LEDs.

And that would mean you need 27 2W 1.0 Ohm resistors.

If you need less LEDs then a different MW could be spec'ed.

 

[S2minute]

S2minute; You should consider using the PFC MWells. You can have one driver running a lot of LEDs with good efficiency.

You have two good choices. Multiple fist fulls of the current DIY controllers being powered by a large PFC DC supply or paralleling with a little extra care.

Doing it this way trades off the depth of dimming with a savings of several hundred dollars of initial cost and likely hundreds of dollars per year on operating expense over a truck load of ELN60-48 - not to mention the space saved.

Here's a recent example using MeanWell HLG 240H 42B,
that I helped a fellow member with.



If you need less LEDs then a different MW could be spec'ed.

9 X 11 huh?...be nice if it could be 12 per string then it work even but i dunno if that matters. Here`s what i decided to go with:
3 Heat sinks,(1 for each section of tank). Each HS will have to be big enough to mount 60 LEDs,(unless i went with the U channel HSs). On each HS will go 9 CW, 9 NW 38RB and 4 UV to make a total of 160 over that 175 gal Bowfront. I figured 5 strings with 12 LEDS would make it simple but if their is not a PFC MV Dimmer that can do it, i guess the layout will have to change.

 

[kcress]

S2; Are you willing to mix all the colors in the same strings?

What drive level are you going to use?

 

[S2minute]

LEDs

LEDs

S2; Are you willing to mix all the colors in the same strings?

What drive level are you going to use?

Yes, all the colors are pretty evenly mixed whites xp-g, blue-no lens xr-e, rb xr-e. Whites @ 1000MA and blues @ 700MA, 4 Uv per section with no lens. Using PFC MW dimms

55 per section, 5-11 led strings. 8 CW, 8 NW, 6 Blue, 29 RB, 4 UV

RB CW RB NW RB

RB RB CW RB RB

RB NW B CW RB

CW UV RB UV NW

RB B NW B RB

RB RB RB RB RB

NW UV RB UV CW

RB B CW B RB

RB NW B CW RB

RB RB NW RB RB

RB CW RB NW RB

This is not written in stone though Any Opions?

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Yes, all the colors are pretty evenly mixed

What he's asking is, are you willing to have many colors mixed together on a single driver? The implication is that if you go that route, you cannot control/dim the colors separately to adjust the overall color balance in the tank. For some people, that's a major stumbling block. Personally, I don't see it as a big deal - IMHO, you should plan your LED colors and ratios to get the look you want, not dim to get the look you want - since the latter impacts overall intensity as well as color balance.

 

[TheFishMan65]

How are you wiring the UV? Where are you getting them. If you are following sammy113 he got his at Nanotuners IIRC, but they only allow 500ma.

 

[S2minute]

LEDs

LEDs

I`d rather keep the CW, NW seperate from the RB,B so i can sim sunrise/set. Or, just keep the blues on by themselves. Also, between the 3 HSs there will be a total of 12 UV so i was thinking of controlling all of the UV under one MW. If the RB and Blue are to be run at 700MA and the whites at 1000MA then they would have to be on seperate drivers anyway right? You`ll have to forgive me, i`m just getten my feet wet here.

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

S2minute, you should check out this thread:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1934788

This user is also trying to do a large build, using "large" meanwells that have active PFC.