brassmonkyballs
BMB
mine are 8 inches off the water and I have had the fixture out every month and I don't see any indications of an issue. Will be out again tomorrow morning to put in some greens as an experiment. Will take a close look at it.
DIY LEDs - The write-up
- Thread starter JohnL
- Start date
- Status
kcress
New member
16" to 18" is considered to be about the point at which you can start avoiding protection.
My scribbled rabbit fish likes to splash water up over a foot in the air, sometimes higher. Both of my 250w metal halides have some salt spray on the bottom of the glass from him, one is 18" above the other about 12".
I plan on having a cover no matter what the height
I plan on having a cover no matter what the height
== John ==
I've lookat that! It's very nice. I think there would be less vignetting that way too.
The only thing that keeps me from doing that is I built a hood for the tank years ago that book matches the grain on the stand.
I've never installed it
It needs another coat of spar varnish, I keep getting 'bubbles' in it.
I also wanted to sequence the angle of the lights across the tank, and that would take a VERY 'wide' fixture if it's 4' above the tank!
But I may just give up on all this and mount to the ceiling
Widmer's light is brilliant.== John ==
mcurtis
New member
Hey All,
I have been following this thread for sometime now and i am on the same quest to add leds to my setup now.
I have a newly setup 90 gallon 3x2x2 tank with 1 MH 250Watt 14k bulb over it currently. I want to add a strip of leds on the sides of the MH for now and eventually replace the MH. I have mostly softies and sps, and very few lps. Also, i have a Neptune Apex on the way for multiple reasons, but will be nice with the dim-able features. I feel like the tank has some darker areas on either side of the halide which you can see in the picture.
I am thinking about ordering a couple of kits from rapidled or similar that has either 12 or 24 leds on each side of the halide. I am wanting it overall brigher, but on top of that some more blue as well, and wasn't sure to go with actinic supplements or stagger 1 white, 1 blue, 1 white, etc.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks, Matt
I have been following this thread for sometime now and i am on the same quest to add leds to my setup now.
I have a newly setup 90 gallon 3x2x2 tank with 1 MH 250Watt 14k bulb over it currently. I want to add a strip of leds on the sides of the MH for now and eventually replace the MH. I have mostly softies and sps, and very few lps. Also, i have a Neptune Apex on the way for multiple reasons, but will be nice with the dim-able features. I feel like the tank has some darker areas on either side of the halide which you can see in the picture.
I am thinking about ordering a couple of kits from rapidled or similar that has either 12 or 24 leds on each side of the halide. I am wanting it overall brigher, but on top of that some more blue as well, and wasn't sure to go with actinic supplements or stagger 1 white, 1 blue, 1 white, etc.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks, Matt
Thanks for the great thread, I've been reading it for a week now and learnt so much about the LED setups. I am planning a led lightning for my new tank 51"/24"/24" and I got a few questions that I would appreciate being answered.
My plan is to use 84-90 LEDs at the ratio 1:1.5 white to blue, I really don't want way too blue /I know many have 1:2 ratio/. I am still debating if i need Neutral whites only or mix with Cold Whites 2:1 in order not to get too yellow look. So XP-Gs 36x NW /or 24 NW + 12 CW/, XP-E 40x RB, 8x B /for the greenish/ and then maybe 2x Reds, Few Violets 420nm (if i manage to find some). I am still uncertain about the exact led number because I am debating on drivers. I plan on using MWs. My initial idea was to use like 7x ELN-60-48D in a series circuit 13 LEDs per driver. However now I read that may cause lights flicker, circuit problems due to the initial inrush, warm wires etc. My next thought is to run the leds parallel with two HLG-185H-42B (or 48B or 54B, they are all the same price). They do have PFC and that will solve some problems, however from what I've read the initial inrush issue is still there. Another thing is that I should run around 40-50 LEDs per driver and even with fuses there is always a chance something to go wrong and all the leds to burn out and we are talking about 50 leds per driver. Also if 2x HLG-185H-42B's are used the parallel stings must be identical so there is no way to add small number of reds or violets on these drivers unless I use 6 of each /1 per string/ which specifically for reds is too much. The HLGs cannot be dimmed by 100%? Also 2x HLGs are the same price as 7x ELNs.
Another option is to use 4x ELN-60-48D with parallel 2x 11-12 leds. However I am still not sure if that will allow me to use the leds at optimal. However I still don't get it why you could run 2 strings of 12 leds and be alright when it is suggested that 14 leds max is for series circuit (unless you run them at 50% capacity?).
Also if I decide to go with the HLG-185Hs, which ones should i take 42B or 48B or 54B (they are the same price).
My next concern is optics. I want to get enough PAR to grow any coral /without bleeching of course). I would also like to have at least 15-20" between the splashshield and the top of the tank so I could do the cleaning, feeding etc. I have zero knowledge of how the light spreads, from what I've read I will be ok with 80 degree optics and avoid the shadows/disco efect,spot light effect, and then I could group them in clusters, yet that is just a guess. Also 40-60 dergree optics for the leds which are near the end of the hood so they don't light up the front glass.
Any suggestions and ideas will be greatly appreciated as I would invest in this project more than I could afford at the moment and I don't want to make pricey mistakes. Thanks.
My plan is to use 84-90 LEDs at the ratio 1:1.5 white to blue, I really don't want way too blue /I know many have 1:2 ratio/. I am still debating if i need Neutral whites only or mix with Cold Whites 2:1 in order not to get too yellow look. So XP-Gs 36x NW /or 24 NW + 12 CW/, XP-E 40x RB, 8x B /for the greenish/ and then maybe 2x Reds, Few Violets 420nm (if i manage to find some). I am still uncertain about the exact led number because I am debating on drivers. I plan on using MWs. My initial idea was to use like 7x ELN-60-48D in a series circuit 13 LEDs per driver. However now I read that may cause lights flicker, circuit problems due to the initial inrush, warm wires etc. My next thought is to run the leds parallel with two HLG-185H-42B (or 48B or 54B, they are all the same price). They do have PFC and that will solve some problems, however from what I've read the initial inrush issue is still there. Another thing is that I should run around 40-50 LEDs per driver and even with fuses there is always a chance something to go wrong and all the leds to burn out and we are talking about 50 leds per driver. Also if 2x HLG-185H-42B's are used the parallel stings must be identical so there is no way to add small number of reds or violets on these drivers unless I use 6 of each /1 per string/ which specifically for reds is too much. The HLGs cannot be dimmed by 100%? Also 2x HLGs are the same price as 7x ELNs.
Another option is to use 4x ELN-60-48D with parallel 2x 11-12 leds. However I am still not sure if that will allow me to use the leds at optimal. However I still don't get it why you could run 2 strings of 12 leds and be alright when it is suggested that 14 leds max is for series circuit (unless you run them at 50% capacity?).
Also if I decide to go with the HLG-185Hs, which ones should i take 42B or 48B or 54B (they are the same price).
My next concern is optics. I want to get enough PAR to grow any coral /without bleeching of course). I would also like to have at least 15-20" between the splashshield and the top of the tank so I could do the cleaning, feeding etc. I have zero knowledge of how the light spreads, from what I've read I will be ok with 80 degree optics and avoid the shadows/disco efect,spot light effect, and then I could group them in clusters, yet that is just a guess. Also 40-60 dergree optics for the leds which are near the end of the hood so they don't light up the front glass.
Any suggestions and ideas will be greatly appreciated as I would invest in this project more than I could afford at the moment and I don't want to make pricey mistakes. Thanks.
brassmonkyballs
BMB
Hey All,
I have been following this thread for sometime now and i am on the same quest to add leds to my setup now.
I have a newly setup 90 gallon 3x2x2 tank with 1 MH 250Watt 14k bulb over it currently. I want to add a strip of leds on the sides of the MH for now and eventually replace the MH. I have mostly softies and sps, and very few lps. Also, i have a Neptune Apex on the way for multiple reasons, but will be nice with the dim-able features. I feel like the tank has some darker areas on either side of the halide which you can see in the picture.
I am thinking about ordering a couple of kits from rapidled or similar that has either 12 or 24 leds on each side of the halide. I am wanting it overall brigher, but on top of that some more blue as well, and wasn't sure to go with actinic supplements or stagger 1 white, 1 blue, 1 white, etc.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks, Matt
If you were going to lose the halide I would suggest 48 over the tank...therefore you don't need 24 on each side of the halide. I think 12 on each side would be good but you may find the sides are brighter than the halide. Think about mixing 2RB to 1 White...you said you wanted more blue. and make sure you go dimmable kits so you can mix color and dim to your liking and to match the halide. Since you're about 10 inches from the water get the widest optic they have with the kits....I think they have 80 degree lenses.
brassmonkyballs
BMB
I'm not sure about the UVs but on my 4x2x2 tank I recently made a few changes and put in 6 XPE greens and 3 XPE reds. So now I am using 18CW, 6 NW, 6greens, 3 reds, 44 RBs. They have only been in since yesterday but I think I like the effect I can get. Growth has not been an issue and I'm not convince the UVs do anything.
The key is getting enough coverage ... PAR is not an issue. 84 will give you nice coverage with 4 rows of 21.
I am using HLGs and 1st put all the XPGs on one and the XPEs on another. now I added the greens and reds to the HLG120 driver which has the XPGs on it. As long as you balance the strings its fine. I'm running the 42V versions on both.
The max number you see on the drivers is from the Rapid site I assume. Their numbers are stating max number in series. When you put 2 strings in parallel you halve the current from the driver but the voltage stays the same so you can still run that many in a string and with 2 strings you double the amount of LEDs.
If you're going to hang it 16-18 I think 60 degree optics would be good.
Not sure I answered any of your questions but it would have helped if you used a little better paragraph form in the post....it kinda runs together a bit much.
I know it seems daunting but at least you read the thread and are getting an idea of what you want to do and how to do it. Try to crisp up shorter questions and you'll get better and more responses. This is the best thread for resources so stick with it.
Thanks brassmonkyballs. I was quite in a hurry so I just threw in all the questions i could think of before I went out. Anyhow I'll try to rephrase my questions.
1. Would I be fine with 4x (5x) ELN-60-48Ds, running 2 strings of 12 LEDs, as it follows.
#1 - 24x NW XP-Gs (maybe replace 2x NW for 2x Reds)
#2 - 10x CW XP-Gs, 6x RB, 8x B
#3 - 24x RB
#4 - 24x RB
Optionally #5 for True Violets (not UV) at 420nm and DeepRed 660nm (Osram)
If I go that scheme, at how much mA would I be able to use the LEDs in order not to reach the maximum of the driver (obviously not at the LED's full capacity)
**The circuit circle where the LEDs will be plugged in is where my Pumps,skimmers as well as my TV are fed from.
2. Would HLG-185H be a better choice, considering:
A. There will be inrush problems still.
B. Since you can only dim all the strings together you have less choices of dimming cause you will do all 44 leds at once
C. The cost of 2x HLGs is 50% higher than 4x ELNs
D. It can be dimmed only to 10%, not to 0%, so you can shut them down and then more inrush problems at startup
3. Is 2:1 NW to CW a good combo? I see many people on other forums doing NW only cause, according to them, that way the colors were much better and there was no need for CW since it's also a bit yellowish.
4. I noticed that HLG-185H-xxB models, come in DC voltages of 42,48 and 54 and at the same price, isn't it "the bigger the better"?
5. As for optic/lenses
A. Wouldn't 60 degree optics /actually 65 for XP-Gs and 55 for XP-E RB & B is what i can choose from/ cause too much shadows and spotlight?
B. Should I use 40 degree optics for the LEDs that are near the end of the hood, closest to the glass of the tank?
C. If I decide to group the LEDs in clusters of 3 instead of evenly spread on the heatsink /with the purpose to avoid shadows/spotlight/, wouldn't 80 (even wider) optics be a better idea so I can get good coverage?
Again if these questions have already been discused, my apologies, I tried to read/memorize all I've read so far but may have missed some. Thanks.
1. Would I be fine with 4x (5x) ELN-60-48Ds, running 2 strings of 12 LEDs, as it follows.
#1 - 24x NW XP-Gs (maybe replace 2x NW for 2x Reds)
#2 - 10x CW XP-Gs, 6x RB, 8x B
#3 - 24x RB
#4 - 24x RB
Optionally #5 for True Violets (not UV) at 420nm and DeepRed 660nm (Osram)
If I go that scheme, at how much mA would I be able to use the LEDs in order not to reach the maximum of the driver (obviously not at the LED's full capacity)
**The circuit circle where the LEDs will be plugged in is where my Pumps,skimmers as well as my TV are fed from.
2. Would HLG-185H be a better choice, considering:
A. There will be inrush problems still.
B. Since you can only dim all the strings together you have less choices of dimming cause you will do all 44 leds at once
C. The cost of 2x HLGs is 50% higher than 4x ELNs
D. It can be dimmed only to 10%, not to 0%, so you can shut them down and then more inrush problems at startup
3. Is 2:1 NW to CW a good combo? I see many people on other forums doing NW only cause, according to them, that way the colors were much better and there was no need for CW since it's also a bit yellowish.
4. I noticed that HLG-185H-xxB models, come in DC voltages of 42,48 and 54 and at the same price, isn't it "the bigger the better"?
5. As for optic/lenses
A. Wouldn't 60 degree optics /actually 65 for XP-Gs and 55 for XP-E RB & B is what i can choose from/ cause too much shadows and spotlight?
B. Should I use 40 degree optics for the LEDs that are near the end of the hood, closest to the glass of the tank?
C. If I decide to group the LEDs in clusters of 3 instead of evenly spread on the heatsink /with the purpose to avoid shadows/spotlight/, wouldn't 80 (even wider) optics be a better idea so I can get good coverage?
Again if these questions have already been discused, my apologies, I tried to read/memorize all I've read so far but may have missed some. Thanks.
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The Grim Reefer
Ready for some NOBALL!!!
IME the UV's do make a difference. When they burn out it shuts down the rest of your string 
I had two die and took the rest out. They didn't seem to make a difference.
I had two die and took the rest out. They didn't seem to make a difference.
widmer
Drug Enthusiast
Nice to know the projector concept is still being recommended. It is downright stunning for a rimless tank, but I must say I give credit of the concept to LiveForPhysics. Here's a sneak peak @ the newer version I'm in the middle of building...
3 ELN-60-48s, 12 cool XPG, 12 neutral XPG, 24 royal XPE, 12 degree lenses.
Notice the cream of mushroom soup for scale; everything is getting packaged into a 3 foot by 3 inch by 4 inch housing...
kcress
New member
Good to see you Widdy. Fascinating.
I hope you're taking lots of pics for a stand alone build thread! (or we'll hunt you down and inject you with one of your lab assignments)
You paralleling the RBs?
Why is that cross piece mounted on the top? Why not down in between the tubes so everything fits into the unit volume? Aesthetics...
I hope you're taking lots of pics for a stand alone build thread! (or we'll hunt you down and inject you with one of your lab assignments)
You paralleling the RBs?
Why is that cross piece mounted on the top? Why not down in between the tubes so everything fits into the unit volume? Aesthetics...
Very nice!
Where'd you get the aluminum?
I found some 8020 on eBay that looks good, although it's almost retail price anyway. Maybe I could order it and get it anodized black.
I found some C channel with flanges (like a "G" channel") that would be PERFECT to slide a 1.8" plexi shield into ... all in one basically. But the minimum was 300 pounds
Where'd you get the aluminum?
I found some 8020 on eBay that looks good, although it's almost retail price anyway. Maybe I could order it and get it anodized black.
I found some C channel with flanges (like a "G" channel") that would be PERFECT to slide a 1.8" plexi shield into ... all in one basically. But the minimum was 300 pounds
== John ==
widmer
Drug Enthusiast
@k LOL I actually haven't been taking too many pictures... It just goes together so fast and these ELN-based builds are a dime a dozen now. But I will have a build thread for it just so I can reference it to keep things organized when I do the aquarium build thread (along with referencing separate threads for the cabinet build, tabletop display ATS, etc...)
And yea the RBs will be paralleled. I originally was going to use two of the ELNs to drive the 24 RBs, but A) I was running low on space, B) I would probably have them tuned to 700 mA either way, and C) harmonics in a 100+ yr old house... But that's OK, I also have 24 extra RBs that I can combine with my 4th ELN to make a nice plant light...
Speaking of AESTHETICS, couldn't agree with you more. I'm come to a place in this hobby where aesthetics is one of my primary concerns. That cross peice does appear to be hideous right now, but rest assured, everything will be packaged into a sleek 4" by 3" (cross section) enclosure.
@j I stumbled across a metals supplier here in Ann Arbor which is like DIY paradise with every size and shape of these materials imaginable. The 2"x1"x36" aluminum tubes cost around $10 ea. But I did see them for a similar price on amazon of you don't have anyone local.
And yea the RBs will be paralleled. I originally was going to use two of the ELNs to drive the 24 RBs, but A) I was running low on space, B) I would probably have them tuned to 700 mA either way, and C) harmonics in a 100+ yr old house... But that's OK, I also have 24 extra RBs that I can combine with my 4th ELN to make a nice plant light...
Speaking of AESTHETICS, couldn't agree with you more. I'm come to a place in this hobby where aesthetics is one of my primary concerns. That cross peice does appear to be hideous right now, but rest assured, everything will be packaged into a sleek 4" by 3" (cross section) enclosure.
@j I stumbled across a metals supplier here in Ann Arbor which is like DIY paradise with every size and shape of these materials imaginable. The 2"x1"x36" aluminum tubes cost around $10 ea. But I did see them for a similar price on amazon of you don't have anyone local.
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mcurtis
New member
Thanks for responding on this. I have a new bulb, which is why i am not ready to lose the halide yet.
So it would work out to be: 12 total: 8 Blue and 4 White on each side?
I am not sure if it is more blue or more white i am after. I know that i need more light on the sides, as you can see in the pictures. I want to go dimable so i can control them with the Neptune Apex.
Being 2 feet deep and the bulbs might be closer to the water to keep the height of the housings the same. If i was 6 inches from the water would you still recommend 80 lenses? Thanks!
Sorry for the double post but cannot edit my previous one. After doing some more reading I ended up deciding how many leds I need and drivers, although I am still debating on which HLG driver to use. It will either be 2x HLG-185-42B + 1x ELN-60-48D or 2x HLG-185-48B + 1x ELN-60-48D. As it follows:
1x HLG-185H-42B (4.4A)
36x Whites XP-G
4 Strings - 9 CW / 9x NW / 9x CW / 9x NW
Running at 1100 mA per string /will probably be dimmed to 900-1000mA/
1x HLG-185H-42B (4.4A)
50x Royal Blues XP-E
5x Strings - 10x RB each string
Running at 880 mA per string /will probably be dimmed to 800 mA/
1x ELN-60-48D
Series - 8x Blue, 2x Royal Blue, 2x Red
at 800 mA
OR the other route is:
1x HLG-185H-48B (3.9A)
36x Whites XP-G
3 Strings - 12x CW / 12x NW / 6x CW 6x NW
Running at 1300 mA per string /will probably be dimmed to 900-1000mA/
1x HLG-185H-48B (3.9A)
48x Royal Blues XP-E
4x Strings - 12x RB each string
Running at 975 Ma per string /will probably be dimmed to 800 mA/
1x ELN-60-48D
Series - 8x Blue, 4x Royal Blue, 2x Red
at 800 mA
I just don't know which is the better route and what are the benefits /or disadvantages/ of using:
42B model - more stings, less leds in a string
48B model - less strings, more leds in a string
Indeed using 42B model is giving lower overall current per string but it will be lowered by dimming the leds anyways.
Am I missing something?
The only thing I could think of is that if I ever want to run the leds at higher output, the 48B driver would be a better choice by giving me 1300mA for whites /XP-Gs max is 1.5A/ and 975mA for blues /XP-E max is 1A/, however with that many leds for my 120g tank I don't think I'd push them that far near their maximums.
1x HLG-185H-42B (4.4A)
36x Whites XP-G
4 Strings - 9 CW / 9x NW / 9x CW / 9x NW
Running at 1100 mA per string /will probably be dimmed to 900-1000mA/
1x HLG-185H-42B (4.4A)
50x Royal Blues XP-E
5x Strings - 10x RB each string
Running at 880 mA per string /will probably be dimmed to 800 mA/
1x ELN-60-48D
Series - 8x Blue, 2x Royal Blue, 2x Red
at 800 mA
OR the other route is:
1x HLG-185H-48B (3.9A)
36x Whites XP-G
3 Strings - 12x CW / 12x NW / 6x CW 6x NW
Running at 1300 mA per string /will probably be dimmed to 900-1000mA/
1x HLG-185H-48B (3.9A)
48x Royal Blues XP-E
4x Strings - 12x RB each string
Running at 975 Ma per string /will probably be dimmed to 800 mA/
1x ELN-60-48D
Series - 8x Blue, 4x Royal Blue, 2x Red
at 800 mA
I just don't know which is the better route and what are the benefits /or disadvantages/ of using:
42B model - more stings, less leds in a string
48B model - less strings, more leds in a string
Indeed using 42B model is giving lower overall current per string but it will be lowered by dimming the leds anyways.
Am I missing something?
The only thing I could think of is that if I ever want to run the leds at higher output, the 48B driver would be a better choice by giving me 1300mA for whites /XP-Gs max is 1.5A/ and 975mA for blues /XP-E max is 1A/, however with that many leds for my 120g tank I don't think I'd push them that far near their maximums.
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TheFishMan65
New member
VACATION !!!!
VeL, I don't think it it matters. I would probably go higher voltage, but only because I think fewer strings are easier to work with.
Before I left I did a comparison of the XM-Ls and XP-G efficiency and and was surprised that they were the same. Some one pointed out that I used different current. I used XP-Gs (350ma) and XM-Ls (at 700ma), because reading the datasheets I took these as the Cree recommended current (I know they can go higher and lower) and these are IMHO. But in order to get a fairer comparison what do folks think the currents should be?
I think I pointed that out. I think you do something along these lines: take the lumen output of however many xpgs you are using at a given current. Compare that to the lumen output of the same number of XML at the same current. Or find out the number of XML needed to to supply the same number of lumens. Also, keep in mind the the watts consumed by a XML at the same current as the xpg is less.
While the lumen output of the xml may be the same/ higher/ lower than the xpg, the XML use less energy to do the same amount of work.
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