Just wondering how many of you opt to go with the "premium" cree's over the regular bin cree's? The "premium" ones are about a hundred more bucks for a set of 48 over the regular non premium. Is the premium thing just a marketing gimmick or do I really need to spend the extra hundred on the premium?
DIY LEDs - The write-up
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brassmonkyballs
BMB
Where do you see them called out as Premium and do you know which Crees they are? XPG and XPE are probably considered premium but not knowing whats considered not premium its hard to say. XRE preceded the XPs are not as efficient and do not put out as much light. So perhaps thats premium vs old technology.
Now there's the XMLs which as far as I'm concerned is in a different category than the XPGs but is much more powerful, can run at 3A, and costs significantly more.
The next new one on the fringe of hitting the market is the XT-E to supercede the XPE.
In general yes I will pay more now for the current technology or wait and pay even more for the newer technology
and yes there's been a lot of back and forth if its worth it and generally the math comes back as yes it is... but once you buy the newest you get to wait a few years and leap frog a bunch of iterations....You can go to rapid led.com and click on any of their diy led kits. There will be a tab with an option where you can pick regular or premium cree xpe. Here is the link, if you scroll down a bit to "choose xpe leds" you will see a drop down box. http://reefledlights.com/led-kits/cree-xp-e-kits/48-cree-xp-e-kit/. It's only 190 for 48 xpe's of the non-premium kind but something like 280 for the "premium". I was figuring that 190 sounds real nice to do a complete led setup vs the cost of the xpg, only adding a few bucks extra for the drivers.
brassmonkyballs
BMB
Yeah...Rapid used to differentiate between the XRE and XPG/E by Premium and Ultra Premium. Reeflights is being a bit cute if you ask me because they provide no info to someone who does not know the difference. What you want to use is the XPG cool white and the XPE Royal Blue. The XPE white is not as cool and apparently they are selling a lower bin XPE RB and calling it regular. Rapid sells the highest bin 16 for the same price as Reeflights does the so called regular. The main difference in RB binning is the efficiency and its pretty significant. So go to Rapid and get the latest for less than the other site you were looking at....and then you won't have to worry about the answer to your question...because so long as you don't buy from that one site the answer is no.
Cantgrowdidly
New member
Frode, I have 12 cree xpg on a 1050 driver and I agree, it cranks. But if you mix the RB and CW 50/50 then you get 10K at best, IMO. So to honestly compare, you would have to put 6 10K T5s against the 28 LEDs. I would be interested in seeing those par comparisons.
Ok, great. Xpg's from rapid it is. Thanks alot for the help!
Yes, LED and T5 spectra are also very importent when comparing LED and T5. In my pics above I had 4 ATI Aquablue special (mixed spectrum blue/white tubes) 1 daylight (10.000K) and one KZ Fiji purple. I don't remember which tubes where on with the 2 x T5 and the 4 x T5 pics.
I am now considering for my new LED project to just use the 32 XR-E from my current DIY fixture (it really is 20 CW and 12 RB, I stated 16/16 before, but that's not right) and the 14 XP-G CW and 14 XP-E RB.
And drop all T5.
New plans to consider.
And the plan is:
14 XP-G cw at 1300 mA 80 degree lenses
14 XP-E rb at 1300 mA 80 degree lenses
12 XR-E cw at 700 mA 60 degree lenses
12 XR-E rb at 700 mA 60 degree lenses
3 x Meanwell ELN 60-48 driver, 1 for each XP-string and 1 for 2 parallel XR-E strings.
Total power app 180 Watt.
Could this be enough for my 48"x24"x24"tank with sps?
14 XP-G cw at 1300 mA 80 degree lenses
14 XP-E rb at 1300 mA 80 degree lenses
12 XR-E cw at 700 mA 60 degree lenses
12 XR-E rb at 700 mA 60 degree lenses
3 x Meanwell ELN 60-48 driver, 1 for each XP-string and 1 for 2 parallel XR-E strings.
Total power app 180 Watt.
Could this be enough for my 48"x24"x24"tank with sps?
TheFishMan65
New member
It should be close, maybe not SPS at the bottom. Why 2 kinds of CW?
brassmonkyballs
BMB
ma and PAR readings - Fishman - Just for You
ma and PAR readings - Fishman - Just for You
I have some more numbers now to share for those interested....and I invested in a sensor to get PAR measurements too.
1st my current set up as I made some changes a couple weeks ago.
44 Cree XPE RB driven from a Meanwell 185-42B with 90 degree optics
18 Cree XPG CW, 6 CREE XPG NW, 6 Cree XPE Green, 3 Cree XPE Red - all driven off a Meanwell 120-42....all have 90 degree optics except the Reds I just let spead as they are mounted in the center of the fixture equally spaced
So a total of 77 LEDs over a 4x2x2 120g tank.
The white, green, reds are dimmed down to 240ma (yes 240ma!) - capable of 900ma though.
The Royal Blues are running at 700ma - capable of 1100ma if desired
The heatsink runs cold to the touch as you might imagine.
Took just a few readings at this level I have been running for a while. In the center of the tank near the top where I have a some acro's I am getting about 250 which is about 14" from the fixture.
About halfway down where I have some montis and more acros I am getting about 200.
On the sand dead center of the tank I am getting 100.
On the sides where I have all my chalices I get between 50-60.
So perhaps Fishman this data comes in handy for your inquiring mind
I am attaching several pics so you can see how my corals (yes i actually keep nice corals ) and tank looks with this set up. I know everyone must think its way blue...well it is but I don't think where these corals live in the ocean is too white either.....
Here's some shots
lunar Eclipse Zoa
Sunset Montipora
Red Planet Acropora
Lava Chalice
FTS
ma and PAR readings - Fishman - Just for You
I have some more numbers now to share for those interested....and I invested in a sensor to get PAR measurements too.
1st my current set up as I made some changes a couple weeks ago.
44 Cree XPE RB driven from a Meanwell 185-42B with 90 degree optics
18 Cree XPG CW, 6 CREE XPG NW, 6 Cree XPE Green, 3 Cree XPE Red - all driven off a Meanwell 120-42....all have 90 degree optics except the Reds I just let spead as they are mounted in the center of the fixture equally spaced
So a total of 77 LEDs over a 4x2x2 120g tank.
The white, green, reds are dimmed down to 240ma (yes 240ma!) - capable of 900ma though.
The Royal Blues are running at 700ma - capable of 1100ma if desired
The heatsink runs cold to the touch as you might imagine.
Took just a few readings at this level I have been running for a while. In the center of the tank near the top where I have a some acro's I am getting about 250 which is about 14" from the fixture.
About halfway down where I have some montis and more acros I am getting about 200.
On the sand dead center of the tank I am getting 100.
On the sides where I have all my chalices I get between 50-60.
So perhaps Fishman this data comes in handy for your inquiring mind
I am attaching several pics so you can see how my corals (yes i actually keep nice corals
) and tank looks with this set up. I know everyone must think its way blue...well it is but I don't think where these corals live in the ocean is too white either..... Here's some shots
lunar Eclipse Zoa
Sunset Montipora
Red Planet Acropora
Lava Chalice
FTS
bmwaaron
New member
I have some more numbers now to share for those interested....and I invested in a sensor to get PAR measurements too.
1st my current set up as I made some changes a couple weeks ago.
44 Cree XPE RB driven from a Meanwell 185-42B with 90 degree optics
18 Cree XPG CW, 6 CREE XPG NW, 6 Cree XPE Green, 3 Cree XPE Red - all driven off a Meanwell 120-42....all have 90 degree optics except the Reds I just let spead as they are mounted in the center of the fixture equally spaced
So a total of 77 LEDs over a 4x2x2 120g tank.
The white, green, reds are dimmed down to 240ma (yes 240ma!) - capable of 900ma though.
The Royal Blues are running at 700ma - capable of 1100ma if desired
The heatsink runs cold to the touch as you might imagine.
Took just a few readings at this level I have been running for a while. In the center of the tank near the top where I have a some acro's I am getting about 250 which is about 14" from the fixture.
About halfway down where I have some montis and more acros I am getting about 200.
On the sand dead center of the tank I am getting 100.
On the sides where I have all my chalices I get between 50-60.
So perhaps Fishman this data comes in handy for your inquiring mind
I am attaching several pics so you can see how my corals (yes i actually keep nice corals
How long have the corals been under these lights? It seems like a pretty low par number from what Im used to seeing. But your colors are great!
brassmonkyballs
BMB
Low compared to what? others LED readings? I can get way more out of it but the point is where I'm running it and getting growth and color.
kinda why I bought the sensor so I can get measurements. As I said in my post my lights are dimmed way back and the royal blue is by far dominant and royal blues do measure up to 20% low if measured alone.
Anyhow, this is why I wanted to post the data. I can get over 500 at the top and 200 on the sand but thats not whats working for me and I suspect for many who have color issues. One of the reasons I always warn non-DIY'er buying AI Sols...tight optics, small footprint, blasting PAR....can cook coral.
Mikesville510
New member
Love the rockscaping! Really well done
Just because I have them ...
The XP-E are from my older DIY project. I'd like to re-use them.
The meanwell ELN 60-48 P drivers I bought but didn't use...
I originally bought 3 meanwell drivers from Rapidled, but ordered the P version in stead of the D version. As shipment to the Netherlands took 6 months for the drivers (Customs held them for a long time)... I returned 1 of those drivers and exchanged it for 10 of the then just arrived XP-G cw LED's.
That's how I got stuck with two unused drivers and 10 unused XP-G cw LED's.
Meanwhile I bought some other LED drivers near home and started building with those.
Now, two years later, I wan't to start another build. And I'm a bit short on money now. So I'm trying to get out the best with what I've got. And add as little as possible to fullfill my (corals) needs.
So that's how I come to the mix of XP-G and XR-E cw...the way evolution goes... you gain some new propertiess, but still carry the old ones with you.
sorry about post #7506, I realize now you have to be logged in to the www.zeewaterforum.info (Belgian-Dutch forum)to be able to see those pics of my tank.
This morning, looking at te wall above my tank, I realized how importent the placing of the LED light is. As My DIY fixtures sits in the front top of my tank, I thought it was clever to tilt it a little. So the edge of the light beam would go straight allong the front window and the most of the light would hit the center of the tank. But I forgot about that rule with physics which states that light is reflected at a surface with the same angle as it hits the surface.
Made some video's to show it.
This is what you get with a tilted LED light:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFKk2-9b5q8
This is what you get when the light is laid flat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV2LsHFrrnM
So an importent feature of my new design will be to get as much light from my LED's into the tank at the corals. Narrow optics is one way...but to narrow optics will give to much hot spots and/or high intensity. So I'll stick to the 60 en 80 degrees and find a way to make reflection shield to re-reflect the surfcae reflected light :lol2:
... I believe I saw some of those ideas allready posted her before...I'll go digging into this thread again. But any tips are very welcome.
And is the pics of my tank didn't show. Here is how it looks on video after more then a year with 6 x 39 w T5 and the DIY LED 32 XR-E (20 cw/12 RB): http://www.youtube.com/user/frodenuman?feature=mhee#p/u/4/E39JSCJcuao
This morning, looking at te wall above my tank, I realized how importent the placing of the LED light is. As My DIY fixtures sits in the front top of my tank, I thought it was clever to tilt it a little. So the edge of the light beam would go straight allong the front window and the most of the light would hit the center of the tank. But I forgot about that rule with physics which states that light is reflected at a surface with the same angle as it hits the surface.
Made some video's to show it.
This is what you get with a tilted LED light:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFKk2-9b5q8
This is what you get when the light is laid flat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV2LsHFrrnM
So an importent feature of my new design will be to get as much light from my LED's into the tank at the corals. Narrow optics is one way...but to narrow optics will give to much hot spots and/or high intensity. So I'll stick to the 60 en 80 degrees and find a way to make reflection shield to re-reflect the surfcae reflected light :lol2:
... I believe I saw some of those ideas allready posted her before...I'll go digging into this thread again. But any tips are very welcome.
And is the pics of my tank didn't show. Here is how it looks on video after more then a year with 6 x 39 w T5 and the DIY LED 32 XR-E (20 cw/12 RB): http://www.youtube.com/user/frodenuman?feature=mhee#p/u/4/E39JSCJcuao
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bmwaaron
New member
Im not questioning you just trying to learn from your experience, I am having some color issues and was suprised by your findings. I may dial things way back. I am mixing T5 and LEDs
I have 60 RB and 20 NW Cree leds, the 60 run at a max of 850 ma and the NW run at 1amp.
This is over a 180 and I think with all the lights on I get 280 ish on the top and 80 ish on the bottom. With the t5's and the LEDs on I get 800 on the top and
250ish on the bottom but my colors are a little pale.
TheFishMan65
New member
BMB,
Sounds like a lot less PAR than is recommended with MH, which is what I was beginning to think.
I love the bubble coral, please let me know when it needs to be fragged.
Not if you want them to keep running. I thought RB were limited to 1000ma by design.
Sounds like a lot less PAR than is recommended with MH, which is what I was beginning to think.
I love the bubble coral, please let me know when it needs to be fragged.
TheFishMan65
New member
bmwarron, Still trying to figure out light levels also, but yeah turn them down IMHO.
TheFishMan65
New member
SWF,
Do you have a link to the ones you are considering? Generally the Cree LED is the choice here because it puts out more light per watt. This means they will be cheaper to run in the long run. Most of us plan a 10 year life and the electrical saving make up the extra cost of the Crees.
A 3 watt LED running 8 hours a day costs about $1 to run ($0.12 / kilowatt). I did a comparison some where with Bridgelux ($2 IIRC) and Cree ($5.00 maybe a little high). It took 3 Bridgelux to 2 Cree to acheive equal PAR or $6 vs $10. But over ten years the BL would cost $30 and the Cree $20.
Do you have a link to the ones you are considering? Generally the Cree LED is the choice here because it puts out more light per watt. This means they will be cheaper to run in the long run. Most of us plan a 10 year life and the electrical saving make up the extra cost of the Crees.
A 3 watt LED running 8 hours a day costs about $1 to run ($0.12 / kilowatt). I did a comparison some where with Bridgelux ($2 IIRC) and Cree ($5.00 maybe a little high). It took 3 Bridgelux to 2 Cree to acheive equal PAR or $6 vs $10. But over ten years the BL would cost $30 and the Cree $20.
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