DIY LEDs - The write-up

[S2minute]

HS and screws

HS and screws

OK, i've been doing the searches and read about the nylon screws...and talked to vendors so, now i'm just going to throw this out there. I'm trying to come up with a new and radical way to mount my HSs. All of the HS are made from the materal i recieved from Fishman and most are 2 3/16" long. Originally, i drilled a 7/64" hole through each fin so i may mount 12 leds per bar. Now however, what i wish to do is use that drilled hole for a screw. I can use a 1/4"-20 tap for threads. My question is, will a simple 1/4"-20 ss machine screw work? It should stay in by itself w/o a nut right? OR, is it better to use a self-tapping or thread forming screw instead? ALSO, is it ok to use a ss screw with the aluminum HS or should i use an Aluminum screw? If i use a Nylon screw,(which would be cheapest), what about heat from the HS? Would that be to much for the nylon screw? Thanks guys.

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

​

There is no Bin to get you 450-455nm. There is a min and a max and in all cases the max is either 460 or 465nm.

Careful with terminology here. There is indeed a DWL bin (D3) that specifies 450-455 nm. However, you are correct in that there is no order code (aka group) that specifies only that single bin.

When a vendor buys LEDs, they do so by order code, and the LEDs they are shipped may be of any of the bins listed for that group. Effectively, the vendor has no way of asking for a single specific bin. Hopefully though, the vendor would go through the effort of telling their customers which exact bin the LEDs are from, which I do not see either of the vendors in question doing. At any rate, I am sure they are both selling reasonable bins, so between the two I would simply pick on price. That said, there are lots of vendors that DO specify specific bins and are sometimes cheaper anyways...

 

[marc111]

OK, i've been doing the searches and read about the nylon screws...and talked to vendors so, now i'm just going to throw this out there. I'm trying to come up with a new and radical way to mount my HSs. All of the HS are made from the materal i recieved from Fishman and most are 2 3/16" long. Originally, i drilled a 7/64" hole through each fin so i may mount 12 leds per bar. Now however, what i wish to do is use that drilled hole for a screw. I can use a 1/4"-20 tap for threads. My question is, will a simple 1/4"-20 ss machine screw work? It should stay in by itself w/o a nut right? OR, is it better to use a self-tapping or thread forming screw instead? ALSO, is it ok to use a ss screw with the aluminum HS or should i use an Aluminum screw? If i use a Nylon screw,(which would be cheapest), what about heat from the HS? Would that be to much for the nylon screw? Thanks guys.

Ok some thoughts:
0) From your comments I am guessing that the heatsink pieces are approximately 3/4 in wide with 4 fins and about 1/2 in deep.
1) 7/64's is just under 1/8 in. In order to use a 1/4-20 screw you would need to drill the holes out a bit. This is to small to just run that size of tap. It is important to use the correct drill size for the tap that you are using. It is designed to me the iameter of the screw less the threads.
2) If you are not set on 1/4-20 then I would look for the closet tap and dril match and just slightly enlarge the holes. With this size of heat sink you do not need the strength of 1/4-20's. I suspect 6-32 would work just fine.
3) If you tap the hole then you do not need a nut. The nut would only be necessary if you strip a hole.
4) Remember that the hole in the outer bar will need to be larger than the one in the heatsink so that the screw is a slip fit in the outer mounting bar. That way when you tighten you tighten the heatsink against the bar.

have you decided on nylon vs stainless?

Hope this helps,
Mark

 

[ReefLEDLights]

Wow...these guys actually keep tabs on our fourm. That's pretty cool.

:wave: 60% of our staff are avid reefers, hoping to increase that soon once our machinist moves over from FW to SW.

Typically it's me (Rick) or Bill that answer questions and help folks out. Bill is the big tank guy and I am 'smaller' tank guy.

I have a 29g and a 120g rimless, Bill has a 570g and a 330g cube.

Sorry for the digression

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Rick, I have no interest in geting in a vendor war or nitpicking marketing tactics; and I have no personal loyalty or financial interest in any particular vendor. I buy from a wide variety and have bought from you in the past.

However, in this case, the facts are clear and simple. You guys do not publish specific bins on your website, while many other vendors do. This means that people interested in shopping via the web for specific bins will probably not buy from you. Even if we assume that your expensive royal blue XP-E premium bin is the bin that most hobbyists would currently consider the best, the D316, your price is a good 30% higher than other reputable vendors.

And with that I am going to bow out of this line of conversation, as once again, I am not really interested in vendor wars.

 

[T8T]

I need some help here if I may:
Here is what I was planning to do but I think I may have got myself into a mess or maybe not.
I have a 120gallon tank currently running overdriven t5's.
I purchased the following: 72 Leds total.
3x Eln 60-48D drivers
48 XP RoyalBlue
18 XP CoolWhites
6 XP NaturalWhites
Power Blocks
Fuses and Resistors
Heat sinking U channel 8-10" from surface
Cooling 4 120mm fans.
I have spent hours trying to lay these out to come up with this.
Other than the obvious 2:1 ratio anyone see anything wrong with this?
Anyone have a better Idea that I may have overlooked?

Current Canopy for reference:

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

I don't think there is anything wrong with your ratios or anything else with your plan. Of course, ratio is largely based on personal preference.

How were you planning on splitting up the LEDs across three drivers?

 

[T8T]

I don't think there is anything wrong with your ratios or anything else with your plan. Of course, ratio is largely based on personal preference.

How were you planning on splitting up the LEDs across three drivers?

My main concern was that because of the way its laid out, that I would have large areas of blue columns . I like blue but 20k might be pushing it for my preference.
24 per driver running about at @ 650ma per string.

24 rb on one driver
24 rb on one driver
9cw3nw
9cw3nw Balanced on one driver

 

[brassmonkyballs]

​

Careful with terminology here. There is indeed a DWL bin (D3) that specifies 450-455 nm. However, you are correct in that there is no order code (aka group) that specifies only that single bin.

Fair point on the terminology DWZM

We have our premium line because we do Guarantee our Bins and currently only have them mounted on Indus stars as they have a thermal efficiency that exceeds most stars by at least 15%

We get charged a premium for the premium binned LEDs and have to pass that cost on. We treat our regular LEDs the same way as all the other LED distributors do with no guarantee to bins being sold. Our distributor of our premium LEDs stamp the back of each LED so you know what you are getting.

caveat emptor for those who buy their stuff elsewhere, they just have to take the vendor at their word and hope for the best. We are very picky with whom we do business with as we have encountered fake Crees and will not risk our customers to shoddy knock offs.

Who said we dont spec a specific Bin? Next time give us a ring or an email, and toss Cree an email to tell them to lower their price to us! You can only work with what you have and do your best to lower pricing.

Our goal was not to be cute but instead to be professional about it. Different Bins = different qualities and should be treated as such rather than telling customers all LEDs are created equal.
We did not post our Bins online due to some vendors taking this information and then pawning off their lower quality LEDs as a premium item when they don't even stock that caliber of product. Every customer that has called us to inquire what quality we stock, we provide them with the Bin information.

Here is the results of one of the tests we have performed.

If anyone has any other questions, feel free to inquire as we have earned our customers loyalty and trust with the research we have performed and continue to perform.
"All of our products are tested over live animals" :beer:

I'll take you at your word with all you say and commend you for responding here. I do not see where you specify what bin you are guaranteeing in your premium vs a regular though. I'll also say it's alot of expense to you and in turn passed on to the customer to have them sorted and stamped.

My personal opinion is if you want to differentiate yourself then you should be more specific and open on exactly what bin you are providing, why its more beneficial than another bin, why it's significantly more expensive than the 'other' guys, and what the benefit will be to ones tank occupants.

Curious, do you have long term results of using a D3 vs a D5 vs the random chance of using order code XPEROY-L1-0000-00B01 LEDs over live animals and the benefits?

 

[kcress]

T8T; Looks pretty good to me too. I think I'd move the 3rd white from the left bottom -> down one and right one.

I'd do the same with the others in that position.

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

My main concern was that because of the way its laid out, that I would have large areas of blue columns . I like blue but 20k might be pushing it for my preference.
24 per driver running about at @ 650ma per string.

24 rb on one driver
24 rb on one driver
9cw3nw
9cw3nw Balanced on one driver

How far apart will the rows be, and will there be optics? If you have optics, you may get some patchyness (for lack of a better term). If no optics, you will probably get some separation, but i doubt it will be a huge deal unless the bars are pretty far apart.

 

[T8T]

How far apart will the rows be, and will there be optics? If you have optics, you may get some patchyness (for lack of a better term). If no optics, you will probably get some separation, but i doubt it will be a huge deal unless the bars are pretty far apart.

Still at the design phase on the separation but my initial thought was to space the LEDs 2 to 2.5" apart and 3" apart between rows.
I have 80 degree optics for all of the LEDs.

For clarification on my crude Excel layout... the top is the front of the tank and the bottom was the back.... If that matters.

 

[TheFishMan65]

It should mix fine, IMHO. Maybe a little problem with the Natural Whites.

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

IMHO you are borderline thanks to optics, lowish mounting height, and slightly big-ish spacing. Make the change kcress suggested and/or other changes or you may be unhappy with the color separation.

I would be more worried about color separation (different colored shadows thanks to multiple oint sources not close enough together) than patches of different colored light especially since you have your blues towards the outside, which IME tends to be a more natural look anyways.

 

[Softhammer]

You guys have far far too much time on your hands.

 

[T8T]

T8T; Looks pretty good to me too. I think I'd move the 3rd white from the left bottom -> down one and right one.

I'd do the same with the others in that position.

I hope I am understanding this....

Original proposal:

Modified: (Which one not sure I understood)

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Chris, I don't see a difference between the second and third images. At any rate I think you're moving in the right direction. Maybe shift one or two more CWs towards the front and back in each group and you'll have a pretty even spread.

One thing to consider - do you have specific rockwork design in mind, or do you want as uniform a light distribution as possible? Something I've done on a few builds to great effect was use slightly higher concentrations of blue in areas that I wanted to appear deep or farther away. This is kinda out in left field and definitely isn't for everyone, though.

 

[kcress]

I see the difference, (Willy's just not very observant ). The bottom was what I was thinking. I think I'd also move a few W into the front row.

It's all a mind-screw trying to do this. You just try to homogenize it the best you can. It usually doesn't cause noticeable problems, especially without optics. I can get really frustrating.

 

[T8T]

Here is what my current rock work looks like:

I will play with the lay out a little bit more. I have really liked the rock columns up until recently, I jusgt got back from grand cayman and it was my first chance to see a natural reef. I may be redoing the rocks now.

 

[S2minute]

HSs

HSs

Ok some thoughts:
0) From your comments I am guessing that the heatsink pieces are approximately 3/4 in wide with 4 fins and about 1/2 in deep.
1) 7/64's is just under 1/8 in. In order to use a 1/4-20 screw you would need to drill the holes out a bit. This is to small to just run that size of tap. It is important to use the correct drill size for the tap that you are using. It is designed to me the iameter of the screw less the threads.
2) If you are not set on 1/4-20 then I would look for the closet tap and dril match and just slightly enlarge the holes. With this size of heat sink you do not need the strength of 1/4-20's. I suspect 6-32 would work just fine.
3) If you tap the hole then you do not need a nut. The nut would only be necessary if you strip a hole.
4) Remember that the hole in the outer bar will need to be larger than the one in the heatsink so that the screw is a slip fit in the outer mounting bar. That way when you tighten you tighten the heatsink against the bar.

have you decided on nylon vs stainless?

Hope this helps,
Mark

Thanks Mark..eh, i messed up a bit...i ment to type 7/32" vs 7/64" and i'm going SS. Sorry.