DIY Sulfur Denitrator

[hahnmeister]

If nitrate goes down too fast it could stress the inhabitants? I have never heard that, nor can I imagine how that could be true. Perhaps there is some other side effect of some rapid nitrate reduction methods that causes stress, but removing a toxin/poison TOO fast doesnt seem to make sense.

 

[Steve 926]

Reading some recent post's, the recommended amount of media is 1 liter per 1% of total water volume. however this amount is recommended if you are using a non rec. reactor. does this formula also apply to the reactors using a rec. pump ?
My question about the pumps gph. through the media still stands.
The Midwest unit utilize's an Eheim 1048 at 160 gph.
would this flow rate matter with a smaller unit with less media ?

hahnmeister:

I wish I could remember where I read about the possible side effects of a too fast NO3 reduction over a short period. I have been researching this sulphur type reactor for several weeks now, & have read many articles & opinions about them. I will post it when I come across it again. I also thought the statement was odd, maybe that's why I remember it.

Steve






:smokin:

 

[saltydog64]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11976986#post11976986 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 1scienceguy
The way I understand it, with a sulfur reactor, the pH will drop (become more acidic). The concern would come into play if the pH was creeping toward the 9's on the pH scale.

Someone please double check me here:
Without getting into the chemistry lesson, in anaerobic conditions (no oxygen) nitrates are converted to nitrite and eventually to nitrogen gas. If the reaction is short lived, meaning the reaction does not finish, then the effluent goes into the tank and gets converted back to nitrates. The idea of the SLOW flow is to get the reaction to completion (nitrogen gas) but not to the the hydrogen sulfide production. If the nitrites do enter the tank, the aerobic bacteria convert the nitrites back to nitrates and the process continues.

I really hate to say it but a product like (Seachem) Prime and a 30% water change to knock down the levels and try to get things under control. I know there are differing opinions on chemical sequestering.

Scienceguy--Now that makes sense.....Nitrates, back to nitrites and to N2 gas. That would account for my high Nitrites @ this time, you know now that I think about it, I read that some where. THX for the reinforcement...

Tonight I slowed the "flow" rate to approx. 40 cc/10 mins vs the 80 cc it was running. I'm using 1/4" tube (1/8" ID) so my drip rate will not be the same as those using 3/8"(1/4"ID) tubing for what that's worth.

So u think the pH's I posted are OK ???

Thanks again

Dick

 

[Paul_PSU]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11980086#post11980086 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by saltydog64
Scienceguy--Now that makes sense.....Nitrates, back to nitrites and to N2 gas. That would account for my high Nitrites @ this time, you know now that I think about it, I read that some where. THX for the reinforcement...

Tonight I slowed the "flow" rate to approx. 40 cc/10 mins vs the 80 cc it was running. I'm using 1/4" tube (1/8" ID) so my drip rate will not be the same as those using 3/8"(1/4"ID) tubing for what that's worth.

So u think the pH's I posted are OK ???

Thanks again

Dick

I'm a little confused. The way it happens as I have always known it is that in anaerobic conditions the Nitrates convert to Nitrogen Gas and NOT Nitrites. You need aerobic bacteria to convert Nitrates to Nitrites. I would think the only way you would get elevated Nitrites is that the your flow in the denitrator was too high and basically becoming a Nitrate factory and leeching them back into the tank. It would then be in the tank with the aerobic bacteria that the Nitrates would convert into Nitrites. I'm no chemist, but I have searched high and low, but cannot find any info on Nitrates being converted to Nitrites by anaerobic bacteria.

Paul

 

[Paul_PSU]

Salty,

I noticed that your flow was 80cc/10min. Is that accurate or is it 80cc/1 minute? Because if it is per 10 minutes, the flow is way to slow.

Paul

 

[1scienceguy]

Flow should be 1-4 gal/hour. Goto Lowe's (screw the orange) and you will find some great parts in their DIY sprinkler area. I noticed last night that they had several fittings that would flow 1 gph or less. Some of the stores also sell valves that are adjustable from 1-4 gph. I am headed to Lowe's this am to pick up parts for a coil denitrator. Building 2 DIY media canisters as we speak.

Here is what I consider to be one of the original posts on the net by someone very respected in the freshwater community - George Booth.

http://www.thekrib.com/Filters/denitrator.html

Now for the chemistry part. nitrate (NO3-) and nitrite (NO2-), which are available for consumption by many groups of organisms, into gaseous nitrogen intermediates nitric oxide (NO), nitrous oxide (N2O) and ultimately molecular nitrogen ( N2)

or

NO3- → NO2- → NO → N2O → N2 gas

Read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denitrification

 

[1scienceguy]

Based on what I read, you can boost the nitrate reaction in the denitrator with the addition of a carbon source (sugar or alcohol source). I have toyed with adding in an injection line to add periodic methanol injections. Just a thought for after the canister cycles.

I LOVE DIY STUFF!!!

 

[Paul_PSU]

Ok, so things are finally starting to take a turn in the right direction. I tested ph this morning and it is 7.4 coming from the effluent and 8.4 in the tank. My Nitrates are around the 50 level instead of off the charts in triple digits. I am thinking that it has finally kicked in and I should see the Nitrate levels I want in another week.

Paul

 

[1scienceguy]

Sweet! Congrats!!!

 

[saltydog64]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11981126#post11981126 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul_PSU
Salty,

I noticed that your flow was 80cc/10min. Is that accurate or is it 80cc/1 minute? Because if it is per 10 minutes, the flow is way to slow.

Paul

Paul- No the flow is or was 80cc/10mins. I have actually slowed it down even to 1/2 that or approx. 40 cc/10mins. What I want to see or actually "smell" is the H2S then I go from there. THX's to scienceguy EVERYONE note the following reaction(s). It does seem that Nitrite DOES foam in this process before the N2 is formed (Great find scienceguy):
-NO3- ¨ NO2- ¨ NO ¨ N2O ¨ N2 gas

Secondly FAST flow rates NOT slow rates release Nitrites, so it seems to me, I'm the right track, it's just my orginal Nitrates are so high it is going be slow going "I Guess", for what it's worth I took the 2nd ARM out of the loop for now so I can watch the actual rate out of reactor better and therefore control it better.(as a reminder is whole deal is NOT hooked up to my tank YET
Thanks everyone for there thoughts.

Dick (salty)

 

[siskiou]

Well, I finally received my media, and have leak-tested the reactor (needed some silicone around the foot, but everything else is fine).
I'm going to give the silicone until tomorrow to cure and then start the reactor.

Do you all run the reactor directly on the tank, or use some water change water in a tub to get it going and put it on the tank once the nitrate output reaches 0?

 

[Paul_PSU]

Now I'm on a roll, just tested my effluent and it's at ZERO! All have to do is wait for it to turn over the tank water and I should be golden.

So from the morning I put the reactor online with the tank till I got ZERO nitrate reading, it was 8 days. Most seemed to get there in 3, but my Nitrates were in triple digits.

Paul

 

[saltydog64]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11986451#post11986451 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul_PSU
Now I'm on a roll, just tested my effluent and it's at ZERO! All have to do is wait for it to turn over the tank water and I should be golden.

So from the morning I put the reactor online with the tank till I got ZERO nitrate reading, it was 8 days. Most seemed to get there in 3, but my Nitrates were in triple digits.

Paul

Paul- Nice job and continued good luck. For a quick update, what Sulfur media did you use and with 3X Nitrates to start with did you log your progress for Nitrites as it matured ??

THX for reply in adv.
Dick

 

[melev]

Looks like I need to go back and look at what reactor Paul is using.

 

[Konadog]

OK, I have finally decieded to build one of these myself and have a few questions, they have been answered before, some clearly, some not so clear.

This is one of them:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11962139#post11962139 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by adnup
What is the diameter of this filter pad?

What is the part number for the filter pad, or what is it a replacement part for? I may be ordering these online and can't just measure them.

Second, for a 260 total water volume, it sounds like it needs 3.5# to 4# of sulfur media, right?

Lastly, what is the recommended GPH for the recirculating pump? A maxijet 1200 is rated for 295gph, so would an Eheim 1250 (317 gph) be to much flow?

Thanks for a great thread :thumbsup:

 

[1scienceguy]

I made my circles out of filter pad material found in the pond section of Lowe's. Could probably have made 10 circles total from the 2 square pads. One pad was blue, like above and the second was black and would allow a higher flow rate. 10 bucks for the 2 pads.

 

[siskiou]

Got a question: the silicone does not take care of the slow leak around where the flange is glued in. Apparently ABS and silicone don't bond.
Can anyone suggest something else I can use?
I really don't want to start from scratch again.
What I have a round is arylic glue. Or maybe crazy glue?

 

[Steve 926]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11989870#post11989870 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by siskiou
Got a question: the silicone does not take care of the slow leak around where the flange is glued in. Apparently ABS and silicone don't bond.
Can anyone suggest something else I can use?
I really don't want to start from scratch again.
What I have a round is arylic glue. Or maybe crazy glue?

Clean the area from all the silicone, use a clear cleaner/primer around the seam & then re glue it with the PVC glue using it to make somewhat of a bead with it. let it sit overnight.

Usually works well for most small plumbing leaks / drips that are not under a lot of pressure

Next time you glue pvc use a primer, coat the ID of the fitting & OD of the pipe, apply glue to both pieces, insert the pipe & turn it about an 1/8 ~ 1/4 turn to set the seam then LET IT DRY !!

Steve

:smokin:

 

[siskiou]

Thanks!
Will give that a try.

 

[1scienceguy]

I had the same issue building 2 media reactors - I used Goop from Lowe's.