DIY Sulfur Denitrator

[saltydog64]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13553999#post13553999 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Black71gp
well after some leaks and breakage of the egg crate inside holding the sulfur in place had to take mine off line.. nitrates in the tank back up to 80ppm.. YEA!!! anyway.. so i am goign to redo some things.. first.. wondering if i need the second chamber of arm.. I have a taller peice of 6" od acrylic i was thinking of using and making one really tall reactor and adding as much sulfur as possible.. the lowest i ever got mine was to around 15ppm.. which was nice.. i still had issues with gas build up with the two chamber.. if i do one chamber with the gas vent/output at the same spot i can keep up on the gas venting and can smell the rotten egg smell if i ever get one.. sound like an ok plan??? I can always add a second chamber later.. just need to get more sulfur.. and bio matrix.. I think the new chamber i have is like 6" taller.. so like 30" instead of 24" that should be a bit more media..

Black71gp.........Yep your on the right track as the only way I finally got 0 ppm Nitrate..that's right ZERO :rollface: :rollface: was with more sulfur, actually what I did was make a second reactor ( a 3rd really as I'm still using the 2nd for ARM) and filled this completly with sulfur and within a few weeks I was @ 0.00 ppm Nitrate and the tank is still @ 0 hard to belive but true. After obtaining 0, I removed the 3rd reactor completly form the system and just recently I got the dreaded H2S SMELL so I removed approx. 1/2 the sulfur just the other day and I'm recycling the unit as we speak.

I'm not sure what u mean by " if I keep the gas vent value in the same spot " ??? and are u making a complete new unit and if so why not run the ARM reactor as they do raise the pH, ever so slightly, but none the less it works, other than that it sounds like a plan to me.

Dick

 

[Black71gp]

thanks.. i will get some pics as I go.. going to buy another thing of sulfur to.. LOTS O SULFUR this time!!!!

 

[djfrankie]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13557651#post13557651 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by takayan
When we are running Sulfur Denitrator, do we have to do water change regularly? From the chemical equation, it seems like to accumulate SO4-- if we do not change water.

2 H2O + 5 S + 6 NO3- ¨ 3 N2 + 5 SO4-- + 4 H+

saltydog64,
I am sorry late appreciation to you.

Water changes should be part of your monthly maintenance wether you use a denitrator or not.

The accumulation of Hydrogen Sulfide in aquarium was discussed a while back in this article by Randy.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-12/rhf/index.php

These are taken straight from the article by Randy.

(1) Maximize aeration. A high oxygen level drives hydrogen sulfide oxidation, and high aeration will drive some off as volatile H2S gas.

(2) Pass the water over iron oxide/hydroxide (GFO) to convert hydrogen sulfide to elemental sulfur.

Here's more information I think you'll find interesting regarding the usage/concentration of Sulfur in the aquarium.

http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/nutrient/sulfint.shtml

HTH,
djfrankie

 

[djfrankie]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13562189#post13562189 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Black71gp
LOTS O SULFUR this time!!!!

Never a dull moment in reefieland is there?..

I sent you a PM with a thread that I think could help you out.

Take care,

djfrankie

 

[djfrankie]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13563009#post13563009 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by djfrankie
Never a dull moment in reefieland is there?..

I sent you a PM with a thread that I think could help you out.

Take care,

djfrankie

Your mailbox is full.

djfrankie

 

[waynem]

Great post, well worth the time spend reading.

 

[Black71gp]

sorry DJ.. should be all clear now!!

 

[saltydog64]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13557651#post13557651 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by takayan
When we are running Sulfur Denitrator, do we have to do water change regularly? From the chemical equation, it seems like to accumulate SO4-- if we do not change water.

2 H2O + 5 S + 6 NO3- ¨ 3 N2 + 5 SO4-- + 4 H+

saltydog64,
I am sorry late appreciation to you.

T............Hope I helped in small way.........

Dick

 

[saltydog64]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13562994#post13562994 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by djfrankie
Water changes should be part of your monthly maintenance wether you use a denitrator or not.

The accumulation of Hydrogen Sulfide in aquarium was discussed a while back in this article by Randy.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-12/rhf/index.php

These are taken straight from the article by Randy.

(1) Maximize aeration. A high oxygen level drives hydrogen sulfide oxidation, and high aeration will drive some off as volatile H2S gas.

(2) Pass the water over iron oxide/hydroxide (GFO) to convert hydrogen sulfide to elemental sulfur.

Here's more information I think you'll find interesting regarding the usage/concentration of Sulfur in the aquarium.

http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/nutrient/sulfint.shtml

HTH,
djfrankie

dj............As always your right on the mark. You may have noted by my recent post that my tank is now ZERO Nitrate, of course thanks to you and all your efforts.:rollface: :rollface:
My recent encounter with H2S was propably minimized by two factors (1) My effluent passes thru a 2nd reactor filled with ARM and in it on the top of the media is a bag of GFO and (2) finally the effluent from the ARM is directed to the John Guest fitting on my EV-120 skimmer. Both of these I think fall right in line with what you mentioned about GFO and maximum aeration....Oh, I of course reduced the sulfur to approx 1/2 to go into a mantanance mode.....

Say have you considered making that calcium reactor you once mentioned..??? Have you do I'm sure it will another winner, once again thanks...

Dick

 

[jetfixr]

I have been on the fence about building one of these things for a while now. I guess my main concern would be the maintaining a stable PH. I thought the idea of the crushed coral media was to counter-act the low PH of the effluent coming off of the sulfur media? It seems folks are still having issues with low PH even when running the crushed coral media. The main goal I have with any project I start is to reduce the amount of "chores" involved with maintaining a tank. If I could extend time between water changes I would consider this project a great success. But if I am spending a bunch of time tweeking with the PH, I have really just traded one chore for another. Is anyone running one of these sulfur reactors with stable PH numbers? If so, what is the Key factor in maintaining your PH? Please understand I am not trying to bash sulfur reactors, I would just like to find a way use one while not having any PH issues.

 

[jetfixr]

OK, I had some stuff laying around and figured I would give it a go. Anyone see any problems with a setup like this? I know most folks are using an external pump but spacing is tight inside my stand. The pump is a el-cheapo $10, 150GPH powerhead. Since there is really no head pressure, it should put out its full rated 150gph and it will save me about $50 over an eheim 1048 which is also rated at about 150gph. The pump cord is sealed with a pressure rated cord grip. Is 4 inch acrylic tubing that is 18 inches tall. I am looking into getting some media, but the stuff at premium aquatics is like $55 which seems a bit overpriced. I pressure tested it for a few hours using an aqua-lifter (the pump I will use to feed it), no leaks.

 

[djfrankie]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13567666#post13567666 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by saltydog64
Say have you considered making that calcium reactor you once mentioned..??? Have you do I'm sure it will another winner, once again thanks...

Dick

The prototype is 90% made at this point, but it's not really a DIY that most people here would be able to make with simple tools. I will send you a pic sometime tomorrow. A lot of thought went into the design and it deals with a lot of the shortcomings of other calcium reactor units Still has to be tested and re-tested before it can be called a winner though. You know I won't post it anywhere unless it is completely working to my satisfaction.

On another note I'm glad the sulfur reactor unit has worked out ok for you. Thanks for all the updates and for helping others here as well.

djfrankie

 

[djfrankie]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13584873#post13584873 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jetfixr
OK, I had some stuff laying around and figured I would give it a go. Anyone see any problems with a setup like this? I know most folks are using an external pump but spacing is tight inside my stand. The pump is a el-cheapo $10, 150GPH powerhead. Since there is really no head pressure, it should put out its full rated 150gph and it will save me about $50 over an eheim 1048 which is also rated at about 150gph. The pump cord is sealed with a pressure rated cord grip. Is 4 inch acrylic tubing that is 18 inches tall. I am looking into getting some media, but the stuff at premium aquatics is like $55 which seems a bit overpriced. I pressure tested it for a few hours using an aqua-lifter (the pump I will use to feed it), no leaks.

hi,

I measured the ph out of my sulfur reactor effluent a while back and it was documented here...I just forget the exact numbers now, but it appeared to be no more and no less than the ph out of the effluent of my calcium reactor at the time.

My tank's ph runs about 7.8 - 7.9 on a daily basis and the corals, fish and me are very happy with those levels

The effluent running through aragonite will definitely raise your ph somewhat.

Some people here are using Caribsea LSM media with success. I personally have never used it so I can't comment on it.

I like your design. However, make sure it can carry the adequate amount of media to get the job done for your specific tank.

Is that an H&S skimmer you're running? Is it really only pulling 5 lpm of air in?

HTH,
djfrankie

 

[jetfixr]

Thank you for the response. I really didn't know how to post a picture so I posted that link, I thought it was just for the image of the sulfur reactor and not my whole gallery....... oops. Well no biggie. I had some problems with the H&S skimmer and those pictures were used to document my problems. I think I had a bum pump. It was pulling 5 Lpm, I had it replaced now it bounces between 7 to 10. Still not really impressive if you ask me. It fills the skimmer cup about once a week, but I can't help thinking that maybe it could be doing a better job. I do water changes every couple of weeks, yet my nitrates steadily climb. I don't have nitrates off of the charts, but I am running a skimmer rated for 150 gallons on a 90. Also I do 30 gallon water changes every 2 weeks. Hate to be so anal on the nitrates but I have battled with green hair algae in one of my previous tanks and I'm not going down that road again. I am wondering if anyone running a sulfur denitrater is using just the baking soda portion of "two part" to keep alkalinity and PH in check? I would think that calcium would not be affected too much, if anything it should raise a bit due to the dissolving ARM media.

 

[williah]

o.k., so I've had many problems with leaks (due to poor inital work on my part). I've gotten my leaks down to about a couple of gallons every few days. Acceptable with a bucket under the units. The extra water leakage forces my effluent flow rate to remain low but I've been desperate to bring my nitrates down so I've continued using it until I build a completely new one.

I've started returning effluent into the tank, and after being at 25-30 for the last 8 months, my NITRATE was down to 10 and dropping as of this morning. Crossing fingers I should be to 0 by Sun-Mon.


Just want to say THANKS again to DJFrankie for starting it and to ALL the others who've added info to this thread. Great Thread. I've been fighting Nitrates since back in my preteens with a freshwater tank. This is the first setup I've had that's worked.

 

[saltydog64]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13588127#post13588127 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by djfrankie
The prototype is 90% made at this point, but it's not really a DIY that most people here would be able to make with simple tools. I will send you a pic sometime tomorrow. A lot of thought went into the design and it deals with a lot of the shortcomings of other calcium reactor units Still has to be tested and re-tested before it can be called a winner though. You know I won't post it anywhere unless it is completely working to my satisfaction.

On another note I'm glad the sulfur reactor unit has worked out ok for you. Thanks for all the updates and for helping others here as well.

djfrankie

dj.............Your so welcome and sorry for the late reply we've been so tied up closing the course....oh well you know the drill work and all. Without your stick-twoedness ( not a word I guess:mixed: ) none of this would have been possible. I was just thinking I'll lookup some "old" pics of tank before ( full of alge) and some recent ones to see the drastic differences. I actually have some coral (the easier kind to keep) for the first time in there, so once again thanks.

 

[saltydog64]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13604977#post13604977 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by williah
o.k., so I've had many problems with leaks (due to poor inital work on my part). I've gotten my leaks down to about a couple of gallons every few days. Acceptable with a bucket under the units. The extra water leakage forces my effluent flow rate to remain low but I've been desperate to bring my nitrates down so I've continued using it until I build a completely new one.

I've started returning effluent into the tank, and after being at 25-30 for the last 8 months, my NITRATE was down to 10 and dropping as of this morning. Crossing fingers I should be to 0 by Sun-Mon.


Just want to say THANKS again to DJFrankie for starting it and to ALL the others who've added info to this thread. Great Thread. I've been fighting Nitrates since back in my preteens with a freshwater tank. This is the first setup I've had that's worked.

williah.............Welcome aboard and sounds like your on the right track with your battle w/Nitrate, now be aware that as go along u MUST check pH and alk regularly as the SR effluent will without any ? lower them so becarefull, using a 2nd reactor(u mentioned units so maybe u are using one) full of ARM will help, but by it's self willn't do the complete job. Go back and read all of this thread (if u haven't already done so) on maintaining a SR once u reach zero, which u will and by all means make a new SR and when you transfer your media even thou u exposed it to air, it will recycle MUCH faster the 2nd time so continued good luck and post your updates.

Dick

 

[williah]

Thanks, Dick. I've got the unit running into a second, ARM reactor as well. I've got the effluent coming out around 7.4-5, and my tank's holding at a pH of around 7.95. I boost it up now every 4-5 days with some buffer to keep it at or close to 8.0. My Alk is at a solid 3.5-4 with little flux.

So far so good.

Also, I've had to cycle this unit 2-3 times cause of leaks, and you're very correct. The last time I cycled it it took 1 day in stead of the normal 3. I ran it into a wast bucket for an extra day to be safe, but it was fully cycled and running fine in 1 day. I expect the change over, when I build the new unit, to go smoothly and quickly.

 

[saltydog64]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13628505#post13628505 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by williah
Thanks, Dick. I've got the unit running into a second, ARM reactor as well. I've got the effluent coming out around 7.4-5, and my tank's holding at a pH of around 7.95. I boost it up now every 4-5 days with some buffer to keep it at or close to 8.0. My Alk is at a solid 3.5-4 with little flux.

So far so good.

Also, I've had to cycle this unit 2-3 times cause of leaks, and you're very correct. The last time I cycled it it took 1 day in stead of the normal 3. I ran it into a wast bucket for an extra day to be safe, but it was fully cycled and running fine in 1 day. I expect the change over, when I build the new unit, to go smoothly and quickly.

will........you are so welcome. As you know it's important to share results and thoughts on this great thread and others of course.

Your results and mine are quite similar. Here are a few test results recently taken.

Tank.......pH range of 8.00-8.30
SR...........pH range of 7.40-7.50
ARM.........pH range of 7.50-7.60

Note: all pH checks are made @ approx. same time of day(around 5:30pm and with a lab grade Fisher Ph Meter, therefore pH result might be 8.16, I but posted 8.00-8.30 not wanting to come off as a smart arse:mixed: :mixed:

My biggest concern has been alkalinity and maintaining it. It was ranging as low as 2.0 meg/l to 2.5 meg/l. I now am adding approx. 15cc daliy, each of "two-little-fishes" C-balance and alk is now @ 3.0 - 3.5 meg/l and the calcium runs between 500- 575 ppm. I'm not using a calcium reactor other than that 2nd unit full of ARM.

Continued success and please post your progress, oh ya rememeber what I mentioned about H2S and going into the maintance mode when u reach zero.

Dick

 

[williah]

So, here are my results.

My effluent is flowing at about 100 ml/min. It's Nitrite and Nitrate are at 0 and there is no rotten egg smell. Not bad. (hehe)

My tank Nitrate is between 0 and 5 on the color card. I just got a Pinpoint meter to get a more accurate reading but this is the best in months. And this even after very generous feedings. My Alk is 3-3.25 steady. My pH is 7.9-8.0. My Ca is steady at 420.

So things are looking very good.

Therfore now I'm expecting problems and am really concerned about dumping Sulfide into the tank without realizing it. Also I'd like to leave the SR on longterm after hitting 0, to allow me to conitnue gererous feeding.

I've read about running the effluent over a GFO source to clean out the sulfur. I'm going to do this. I'm also going to keep tapping my flowrate up gently to see how far I can get it to, to keep from generating Sulfide. Anything else I should look for or consider? [excuse if a redundant question but the forum IS long.]


I read back in 5/31 from Thirschmann about a Sulfide test kit and found it on line, by LaMotte. Does anyone have any comments or experience with this kit? I don't want to spend $50 on a guess.

Last, any advise on the yes or no of long term use, now that many of you are looking at a year of this diy?

Thanks.:rollface: