DIY Sulfur Denitrator

[saltydog64]

Re: OMG -- I CAN"T BELIEVE WHAT HAPPENED!

Re: OMG -- I CAN"T BELIEVE WHAT HAPPENED!

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14275690#post14275690 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mjpinsky
I have no idea how it happened but my output got turned up all the way -- heavy solid stream coming out of the effluent tube and dumping into the tank!
I thought something was off when I tested the tank and the nitrate level was over 100 again! (and Big Brown was doing so well up to now)
Testing reveal effluent to be 80-100ppm Nitrates 1ppm Nitrites and a pH of 7.2 (alk seemed to be OK however-- weird). My mushrooms and candy canes seem to like the higher nitrate level but my gorgeous patch of anthelia has shrunk down to stubble -- I'm afraid its done for. Also, my algae bloom is back on my glass.
All I can figure is that the high flow rate oxygenated the sulfur core and shut down the reaction.
I reset the driprate back to 3 dps. How long do you think it will take for the reactor to reset itself? Am I back to square one again?
Oh well , stuff happens. Will keep you all updated.......MARC

MARC............

That's very strange, our FR issue.....as I see it (if you haven't solved it yet) this is not good as not knowing the reason could lead to it re-occuring...I hope not. As far as resetting the unit perhaps by the time you read this it has already done so, as they seems to re-set MUCH faster than the orginal cycle...your pH seems quite low @ 7.2 as the lowest out of my SR was 7.60 or in that area....recal the meter and recheck I think....As a side note there is no way ARM will protect your tank from the LONG term affects of a SR on falling pH and ALK but it will get a tank down to near ZERO Nitrates and from there good care and water changes will help maintain low levels.....

Good luck and post your updates....

Dick

 

[tmz]

My ph out is 7.0 at 0 nitrate . I do not yet use an argonite chamnber but have dosed klkwasser for years(it has a ph of 12.4) so it should offset the ph issue as I can adjust ithe to balance..

 

[Margrave]

Does it scale (down)?

Does it scale (down)?

[Edit] Error when I tried to post, so hopefully won't double post

I've been lurking on this thread pretty much since it started, and at last, I can contribute!

Sort of.

My 7-year-old was recently gifted with a 8.5 gallon BioCube knockoff and three goldfish by his grandfather. I know this is technically a SW group, but please hear me out.

I have now decided that gold fish are possibly the filthiest creatures known, as the only way I can even get the nitrates measurable (70mg/L) is a 50% water change.
12 hours later, it was over 110 mg/L again.

So I remembered this thread and was wondering if it might be possible to make a small denitrator, ~12" long out of 1" or 1.5" pvc. Would it still work? I know that coil-style setups have a minimum size of about 3' to be able to deoxygenate the water. I thought this might be do-able since the anaerobic environment is chemically generated. I know it's probably overkill for some bloody goldfish, but it would be fun.

Has anyone ever tried this? Do you think it would work?

 

[tmz]

I'd like to help.

I don't see why a smaller reactor with a small amount of sulfur wouldn't work for a smaller tank. I am not sure of the chemistry issues related to the bacterial consumption of the sulfur in freshwater,however. In salt water the process goes like this: 2 water molecules(H20) plus 5 sulfur molecules(S) plus 6 nitrate molecules(NO3) are converted into 3molecules of nitrogen gas(N2) plus 5 molecules of sulfate(SO4) and four hydrogen molecules(H+). This process lowers ph in salt water and depletes alkalinity. Not sure what effects the extra sulfate and hydrogen would have in a freshwater setup.

Goldfish are great. I love them. I think I'll give my grandson a tank with a few of them. lol

 

[masterobim]

Hi all,
First of all thanks for this great thread. I am planning right now to build one. I have a question . When we use sulphur and Seachem Matrix, do we mix them or leave it layer by layer ? If put one over other which one must be in lower part?
Thanks ..
Arda

 

[rguyler]

The real source of the denitrification is the anaerobic bacteria "respirating" nitrate as opposed to oxygen. I've always believed that biological activity in freshwater is nowhere near as concentrated as it is in saltwater. I have no scientific confirmation but it's what I've always believed over the last 20+ years of fish keeping. As an anecdotal confirmation of sorts, compare freshwater filtration techniques to those we use with saltwater. In freshwater mechanical filtration seems to rule and biological/chemical filtration are secondary.

There are differences in toxicity levels when comparing how toxic ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, etc. is in saltwater versus fresh, so maybe that has something/everything to do with it. In other words, maybe the more toxic said compound is the more biological activity will result.

I agree it would be an interesting experiment though and cheap and easy enough to not keep you up at night if it doesn't work out. :beer:

 

[NCNBilly]

Well, mine still hasn't broken in. Still only producing Nitrites > 5ppm in the effluent. I've got a pretty consistant 1dps rate, been seeding with NBC#9 per the instructions, this week will be the 3rd dose. I haven't opened the reactor in over two weeks, but I'm not even getting any gas production at all.

I'm using a 1/2" vinyl tube to supply the water - any reason this would be causing a problem? I can probably swap it out for 1/4", but the 1/2" was much easier to tap off the existing manifold. Or am I just being impatient?

 

[saltydog64]

NCNBilly........

First off I don't think the size of the SUPPLY line should have any affect on the results..IMO...BUT, yes..... you are being impatient...now bare with me...... the fact that you added 3 doses of NBC #9 is one reason, as only the first would have been more than enough....and secondly you opened it @ least once if not more....not good. I know the one opening showed the rec. pump wasn't working so you fixed that.......good !!

I assume your SR is your orginal 3" design or did you remake to the 4" model ??? I ask this because if you now are external to the sump (are you??) and if the location of the SR is such that it's interal Temperature is LOW compared to the tank...NOT GOOD..if it's lower a simple fix is to place the SR in a bucket with a heater to increase it's temp......

Anyway ALL systems react differently to this approach for Denitrificaton and your's is no differant, what gets my thought is your tank Nitrates @ 30 PPM (if accurate) most folks with that starting point usally cycle faster, BUT like i said no two tanks are the same. API kits ( like all others must be fresh) are good. A ? on your results...did you have any problems with color changes when testing for Nitrates? with 5PPM Nitrites some have issues with " brownish colors during test...did you ???

What I would do is...DO NOT open again..... then.... first, confirm tank Nitrates, then I would slow down the drip from 1 dps to let's say 1 dp/3 secs for example, slowing it way down...(the ntirite level would support this...IMO) run this way for 24 to 48 hours, if you do this check for H2S @ the vent (rotten egg smell), if present bump up FR to a steady slow flow for 2 to 4 hrs and reset FR to 1d/2secs and soon on...we must consume as much "free O2" as possible...to force the bacteria to consume Nitrate as its source of "O2" run @ the slower rate until you get ZERO nitrates (using a fresh test kit) once there bump up to 1 dps and only increase FR after getting and maintanining ZERO @ effluent....

Just trying to help....as I have had some of the SAME problems your experiensing...the good news is that it works.....so GOOD LUCK !!!! and be impatient !!!!!!

Dick

 

[NCNBilly]

Still the 3" model. Yes, I pulled it out of the sump - I checked the effluent and it's about 76F, so I put it back in the sump. Input water is just a shade over 20PPM (per API, it's orange, but a little darker than the card).

Slowed the effluent to 1 d p 3 s.

I don't see any brownish color on the nitrite test, which is still pegged at 5PPM (all kits are less than 1 month old).

Thanks for the ideas - I'm hoping every day that I'll check it and get a surprise, but nothing yet...

 

[mjpinsky]

NCBilly...

I completely concur with the above. I just wanted to add that I would be more concerned with the output Nitrite/Nitrate levels than with the gas production. My unit has never produced enough gas than to be seen as more than a few bubbles when I open the spigot on my vent tube on a daily basis, and it has been running for 2 months now.
Also, my unit is outside of my tank next to my external canister filter. Room temperature seems to be fine to keep it happy. My tank stays at about 78-79F so the reactor has a constant feed supply of warm water. My Nitrates out are 0. (Tank still is a bit high but as all know here , my tank was the King of nitrate levels)
I would also check to make sure you have no air leaks that can be feeding air into the system. This will really slow down the reaction. --> I helped a friend set up a denitrator which wasn't working, I discovered that he (LIKE ME) was feeding the reactor from an MJ inside the tank -- however, he had neglected to take off and plug the aeration hose and was pumping highly oxygenated water into the reactor. Problem was fixed and 2 1/2 weeks later all was working well. Last I heard from him, his output levels are just about 0. SO, check all your connections. It can't hurt.
Hope my 2 cents helps...................... MARC

 

[buffalo123]

would a second layer of Arm increase alk and ph. Layer after sulfur?

 

[saltydog64]

buffalo..............

Not to discourage you, as that is a well thought out idea...but I ran a separate 4" reactor FULL of ARM and it really couldn't control an ever falling ALK along with a slowly decreasing pH....so I guess ..............no!..IMO !!!!!!!

 

[tmz]

The argonite will only do a little to raise effluent ph and wont put out much calicum and bicarbonate. I don't have a problem with effluent ph at about 6.9 without the second chamber since I routinely dose limewater 24/7(ph 12.)and the extra CO2 from the reactor is useful in this set up.

 

[devgru]

ok ive been reading this entire thread all 80+ pages and i must say that you guys are great.ive learned alot and started my build the other day.

i went with PVC 4" 2 reactors
caribsea LSM(local and slightly more cost effective)
and as someone posted a while back>i did fix the problem of extra JG fitting on bottom,i sealed it with silicone.

finally got it together and realized that i used a MJ400 intake/jet and now my 1200 wont fit.

WILL THIS BE A PROBLEM?

im set at 1 drip a second and not using the 2nd chamber with ARM yet

the only thing im worried about is the MJ400.i could replace it but id hate to break it down.

thoughts?

 

[tmz]

I don't know about the 400 for recirculation. Seems like the 1200 may even be light, ime.

 

[devgru]

thanks TMZ.well i have another problem,i woke up this morning and of course i had to check on the new equipment and i wasnt getting any drips out of the reactor.

i opened the effluent valve more and had pressurized air escape.i havent removed it from sump yet so i dont know exactly what happened overnite.

 

[devgru]

here is a pic.the smaller reactor is for ARM which is not connected until cycled.
im using an aqualifter to feed.

[/IMG]

 

[devgru]

now having looked at the reactor i see a problem.my filter disk somehow managed to work its way up,just below MJ intake and covering thr effluent output.

i dont think that could have stopped flow tho,the filter disk is porous to allow flow thru.

i did open up and push disk back down and start it up again.hopefully it will not stop this time.

 

[NCNBilly]

An update for me: My effluent seems to be dropping in nitrite - it didn't turn the API instantly purple as it has in the past. It was still showing 5PPM, but actually developed to that color over the 5 minute time. I guess that's progress.

 

[tmz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14361384#post14361384 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by devgru
now having looked at the reactor i see a problem.my filter disk somehow managed to work its way up,just below MJ intake and covering thr effluent output.

i dont think that could have stopped flow tho,the filter disk is porous to allow flow thru.

i did open up and push disk back down and start it up again.hopefully it will not stop this time.

Suggestions: B

Be sure to fill the reactor with watrer from the feed pump before turning on the recirculating pump.Otherwise , the piping for the recirculation will hold air and block recirculation. It may also block the effluent flow.

. Also be sure the aqualifter is above the the top of the reactor so it can use gravity to help it ;or it may not be able to push the water to the top of the reactor. You should be able to open the degassing valve at the top and see a stream of water flow from it after any gas is expelled .

During the cycling phase you may wish to run the effluent into a buckett instead of the sump, This avoids putting the early waste products ,particularly nitrite and some sulfur powder into your sump.