DIY Sulfur Denitrator

[a1amap]

Re: Were are the plans and instructions

Re: Were are the plans and instructions

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15308445#post15308445 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by brian10956
I had printed and built the sulfur denitrator from plans posted by djfrankie my wife dumped them and I cant find the link to reprint. I have it completely built I have no idea how to use it can some one please help and send me the link.

Page 1 of the first split
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1288082

 

[brian10956]

Ready to Go

Ready to Go

I just finished building my denitrator. I used the plans of djfrankie and it looks good. I have a few questions I would please like answered if possible.

1- I plan on using the sulfur,ARM and Seachem Matrix in it I have 160 gal in my system how much of each should I use and do I preclean it with salt water or RO/DI fresh water

2- After the cleaning is done and I fill it with tank water ( I will be using a Aqua Lifter pump and filter for this) Do I let it circulate for 24 hours before starting the drip?

Any other suggestions or tips would be appreciated.

 

[tmz]

1 . The amount of sulfur depends on the nitrate load. I used 3 liters of The Carrib Sea LSM and about a liter of martix( the pumice stone ;not the granulated carbon) . You can usually run effluent at an hourly rate of 3 to 5x the voume of sulfur. The martix I used had been in my sump for months so it was seeded and helped cycling.

2. I would run it for a day or so without media , so you get comfortable with it's performance. Once the media is in there you don't want to be opening it up to check it sine it will introduce O2 and set back the cycling process.

 

[brian10956]

Is it working

Is it working

Well it been running for a day now, I have not hooked up the drip line back to my sump yet it is just running in place with the water being fed in via a siphon and a Maxijet 900 constantly circulating the water. The nitrates were 80 yesterday and today it was 40. I'm assuming it will take more time for the bacteria to multiply to level were it will function better. I put 1.2 liters of Midwest sulfur in it and in 2 layer above I have 1 liter ea of ARM and Seachem Matrix (not the Carbon).
If anybody thinks I am doing something wrong or if they have any advice on how I can get it running right a response is appreciated.

 

[tmz]

Sounds right to me . Are you degassing it? Is the effluent flow relatively consistent? If so it should take about a week to start showing near zero, then you can up the flow .

 

[brian10956]

The Process

The Process

Yes, twice a day I've been bleeding off the valve on top, some water and air comes out every time I guess I just have to patient and the de-nitrated water will soon be flowing. I read on the Midwestern site that sometimes you need to feed it vodka or humming bird food I guess this is only done if the readings fail to move downward.

 

[tmz]

Well, I didn't but I do dose my system with vodka. The extra carbon couldn't hurt but could result in bacterial mats and clogging.

Once mine got flowing 0 nitrates , I took it up quite rapidly to 4x sulfur volume per hour. At that rate degassing was a thing of the past since the flow carried the N2 out with it.

This did not give me 0 out at first but nitrates in were in the 60ppm neighborhood going in and 20ppm going out. Ultimately it went to zero in and out. That's when you have to watch it because the bacteria starved for the oxygen in the nitrate will start reducing SO4(sulfate) with toxic carbon dioxide as a by product. As a precaution when you get into the lower nitrate ranges you can pass the effluent through some gfo which will reduce the sufides produced in this reduction to elemental sulfur . You can also increase the flow and/or reduce the amount of sulfur in the reactor to bring it into balance with you nitrate inputs (food etc.) or take it off line and restart it again if an when the nitrates rise. I took mine off line in January after reducing nitrates form around 80ppm to 0 in the course of 6 weeks. Since then moderate vodka dosing has held nitrates at less than 2ppm. with no cxhanges in feeding habits and no sulfur denitrator.

 

[jetfixr]

I built my nitrate reactor a while back, and finally got it up and running when my nitrates hit 40+. It did a great job pulling my nitrates down to about 15. And then, for no apparent reason all that water in the reactor went cloudy white. I figured it would clear up, everything else was fine, the output from the reactor was still 0 ppm and never a rotten egg smell. After a few days the water in the reactor did not clear up and the tank started to turn cloudy. I decided to take it offline before the tank got too bad. Anyone had any problems like this? The only thing that I thought was a bit out of the norm was the fact that it didn't really need to be de-gassed much at all. I would really like to start running it again, but I would like to figure out what's going on with it first.

 

[tmz]

No, but mine started to produce hydrogen sulfide after a week or so with the system and reactor at 0 nitrates. The cloudy white stuff may have been disolving aragonite if you were using any in the reactor or possibly a bacterial bloom. i didn't have to degas mine either wonce I increased the flow to a good level it carried the gas bubbles out with it.
Were you dosing any carbon (vodka, vinegar ,etc)?

 

[williah]

Ok, could use some thoughts and advise cause I'm missing something.

My tank Nitrates are at 20 (and dropping).
My effluent out is slightly higher (and dropping).
Yet when I took a sample this morning, there was a strong rotten egg smell.

How can this be if sulfate is the result of low nourishment, yet my Nitrates are at 20? Also, my drip rate is no more than 4-6 drps per second.

The smell is the result of low nourishment for the bacteria, yet there seems to be plenty there. Wouldn't the "starving" bacteria suck all the nitrate out of the tube-water, making the effluent 0, before creating sulfate?

Little help is appreciated.

 

[tmz]

Don't know. Could be that you have areas in your reactor that are recieving less flow than others and bacteria in those areas are using up the NO3 and turning to SO4 faster than NO3 is replenished. Is your recirculating pump working? Have you tried degassing and uping the flow. I would also run the effluent through some gfo to reduce the sulfides to elemental sulfur for as long as it continues to smell.

 

[williah]

Thanks, tmz. That's exactly along the lines of what I was thinking. Dead zones or oxygen rich zones that are battling for supremecy.

My flow is fine as far as I can tell, but I'll have to do more checks this weekend. See if I can narrow down the cause.

Do you know, once we get sulfate, can we just up the flow and "wash it out" or do we have to empty the reactor and clean it out? I figure the bacteria's the same, so by just increasing the flow, it will use the added Nitrate and just stop producing Sulfate. See any flaw in this?

As for the gfo, thanks, I'm totally on it. I have 2 large socks placed before the effluent of the Ca reactor part. I also have my effluent into the tank entering right in front of the Phosban reactor pump (even more GFO!!!!) for safety. I had a Sulfide problem last time, and I wasn't taking any chances this time.

As an aside, is there a good website to get bulk GFO at a cheaper price? The LPS is way to expensive.

Thanks.

 

[tmz]

Bulk Reeef Supply . You can find them in the RC sponsors banners. If you get nitrate to the bacteria they shoud go for it instead of the sulfate since it's easier for them to use.

 

[jetfixr]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15361500#post15361500 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tmz
No, but mine started to produce hydrogen sulfide after a week or so with the system and reactor at 0 nitrates. The cloudy white stuff may have been disolving aragonite if you were using any in the reactor or possibly a bacterial bloom. i didn't have to degas mine either wonce I increased the flow to a good level it carried the gas bubbles out with it.
Were you dosing any carbon (vodka, vinegar ,etc)?

No, no carbon sources but you bring up a good point. If it was dissolving aragonite I should probably do a calcium test next time this happens. If the cloudiness of the reactor is caused by the aragonite I would assume that the calcium rate would be sky-high at the output of the reactor, if not I should figure that it is a bacteria bloom? What would be the fix for a bacteria bloom? I pretty much maxxed out my aqua-lifter feeding the reactor. I just kept cranking it up incrementally until it was wide open, it didn't pump all that fast (even for a aqualifter). At that point there was no rotten egg smell and the output was 0ppm.

 

[vlepouce]

I have read the thread from front to back and seem to be confused on a couple of things. I am starting to build one and will have the second chamber for the ARM. I will putting the Matrix biomedia on top of the sulfur. My questions have to do with recirculating and feed pumps, and the shower strainer for the bottom. The only strainer I have found fits loose in the pipe, the flanges for the bottom are external to the 4" pipe. Should I glue some pieces of pvc to the sides of the strainer so it is centered at the bottom?

For pumps, should I have a recirculating pump on both chambers or just the sulfur and Matrix chamber? Any disadvantage to recirculating both?

Was going to use Maxijets as they are readily available both locally and online. A 1200 for the recirculating and a 900 to feed? Or should this be the other way around. Can they all be 1200 maxi's?

What I had in mind was both recirculating and feeding a small chamber of carbon and GFO mixed together before the tank dripping into the sump.

I have Nitrate measuring around 25 that I am unable to lower via water changes. I am feeding only rinsed frozen mysis and nori sheets for the tangs. This is in a 120. Tired of starving my fish trying to lower the nitrates while fighting off a cyano outbreak for 2 months.

 

[brian10956]

Strainer

Strainer

For the 3" strainer to fit snugly you need to use the flange base that goes into the 4" pipe not the one were the pipe goes into the flange

 

[tmz]

OK

The strainer. Don't know what you have. I used a pvc drain insert with a hole cut in th side so it sat on th bottom over the inlet pipe.
I set a piece of course filter sponge material on top of it and place the sulfur on top of than.

Circulation in the aragonite tube may pressruize it some . I would be concerned about inhibbiting the effluent flow out of the reactor. Your not going to get much calcium/carbonate out of the aragonite in any case. Keeping the denitrator clean may be a better course as flow is touchy even without a lot of add ons.

I don't think you need gac for the reactor.The gfo is a good idea if and when hydrogen sulfide is produced. It will likely reduce the sulfides to harmless elemental sufur.

The 1200 works for recirculation. I would like it to be even a bit stronger. When you set up your feed do it from water above the top your reactor to use gravity and minimize head loss on your feed pump. Otherwise you'll need a larger feed pump.

 

[vlepouce]

Thanks Tom,

The strainer is a 3" pvc shower strainer. Unfortunately the 4" version was way to big and this is smaller. My flange for the bottom of the denitrator goes over the outside of the 4", not on the inside. This seems to be the difference and why my strainer is small. I was thinking to glue some pvc pieces to the outside of the strainer to keep it centered.

My reasoning for the GAC was to keep the GFO from forming a solid block. Maybe I should just run the output into the input for my GFO reactor?

The way I am set up it will not be practical to feed the denitrator from above so I am stuck with a larger feed pump. Any best suggestions for pumps, both feed and recirculation?

 

[vlepouce]

Thanks brian10956

Didn't see your post earlier. The only ones I have found locally so far that are sealed are the type that go over the pipe. I will try a few more places.

Thanks

 

[brian10956]

Lowes

Lowes

I found it at Lowes