DIY Sulfur Denitrator

[AcroporAddict]

I do not think you will find it here at the pricing suggested, even at online greenhouse supply places. Sulfur is used in greenhouses in sulfur burners that treat rose diseases, like mildew. Do a google under "sulfur prills", and you will see multiple ads on eBay and amazon for 4 pounds of sulfur prills for like $25-$30. A gallon of LSM has about 9.5 pounds of media in it, and I can buy it all day long locally for $29 a gallon. BigAlsOnline has it for $24.95 a gallon. Seems decent online pricing for LSM is $21-$25 a gallon, but it may have extra shipping costs because of the weight.

I have not been able to find it anywhere in the US at the price point Belgian suggests. Not saying it might not be there somewhere, but I always look for bargains online, and did not see it anywhere at $5 a gallon, at least Domestically.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

I do not think you will find it here at the pricing suggested, even at online greenhouse supply places. Sulfur is used in greenhouses in sulfur burners that treat rose diseases, like mildew. Do a google under "sulfur prills", and you will see multiple ads on eBay and amazon for 4 pounds of sulfur prills for like $25-$30. A gallon of LSM has about 9.5 pounds of media in it, and I can buy it all day long locally for $29 a gallon. BigAlsOnline has it for $24.95 a gallon. Seems decent online pricing for LSM is $21-$25 a gallon, but it may have extra shipping costs because of the weight.

I have not been able to find it anywhere in the US at the price point Belgian suggests. Not saying it might not be there somewhere, but I always look for bargains online, and did not see it anywhere at $5 a gallon, at least Domestically.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sulfur-Pril...ildew-Greenhouse-Vaporizer-Pure-/121242947737

Delivers only to US with greetings from Belgium.

 

[AcroporAddict]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sulfur-Pril...ildew-Greenhouse-Vaporizer-Pure-/121242947737

Delivers only to US with greetings from Belgium.

Saw this, but the item costs US$50, and shipping to anywhere in the US costs US$54, for US$104 for 50 pounds, or $2.08 a pound. Unless Brotherspizzeria needs more than he will ever use in his lifetime, the US$22 per 9.5 pounds in one gallon of LSM comes out to $2.31 per pound.

Not a large enough price difference to justify buying the large quantity, IMO, unless it is maybe a group buy.

Another point about the LSM vs the sulfur prills, is that the LSM sulfur granules are much smaller overall than sulfur prills, and would provide a much larger surface area for colonization by denitrifying bacteria than the prills, volume for volume, so maybe some of the disparity in required sulfur media needed can be explained away that way, meaning the 1-2% system volume you talk about vs what tmz was referring to in his experience?

 

[BROTHERSPIZZERIA]

This is unchartered territory for me so lsm makes the most sense for me. But all advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Any way, I hope the price of the sulfur is not the cause for deciding to use a to small reactor. It is a one time investment because there is little consumption and it can always be reused after cleaning. It will do for many, many years.

When low nitrate levels are desired and there is a lot to remove daily, investing in a 1% reactor will solve all nitrate problems for years.
Diy is easy. Any plastic or PET container that can be closed airtight will do to build a fluidized reactor. Just make it big enough. When only a small reactor is needed make it twice as big as necessary to prolong the contact time at high flows.

 

[AcroporAddict]

When low nitrate levels are desired and there is a lot to remove daily, investing in a 1% reactor will solve all nitrate problems for years.
Diy is easy. Any plastic or PET container that can be closed airtight will do to build a fluidized reactor. Just make it big enough. When only a small reactor is needed make it twice as big as necessary to prolong the contact time at high flows.

I have the ability to so a 1% reactor volume if necessary (4.5 gallons), but I am now at less than 1/2%. It was primarily yours and Tom's (tmz) exchanges that made me have the custom denitrator made as large as I did. I am using LSM media right now, and will add sulfur as needed, if needed, based on my nitrate levels.

Thanks to Tom and you for your help in that.

 

[BROTHERSPIZZERIA]

I am making a pretty big reactor. Most likely 6" diameter 24 to 30 inches tall. Should be more then enough to do what I need.

 

[BROTHERSPIZZERIA]

I was gonna build the 4" version because I already had the stuff. But have decided to just take it back and upgrade. Really the only thing I need to exchange is the main pipe and 2 ends so simple enough.

 

[AcroporAddict]

Definitely better to have more capacity than not enough. This also gives room for more if you ever expand you volume without having to make another one.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

I have the ability to so a 1% reactor volume if necessary (4.5 gallons), but I am now at less than 1/2%. It was primarily yours and Tom's (tmz) exchanges that made me have the custom denitrator made as large as I did. I am using LSM media right now, and will add sulfur as needed, if needed, based on my nitrate levels.

Thanks to Tom and you for your help in that.

Sulfur as needed? Very difficult to manage. It is not possible to determine or estimate the amount of sulfur needed based on the level in the system.
When you want to use the denitrator as part of the system, I think it is not a good idea.
The amount of sulfure needed has little to do with the level of nitrate in the system. The level of nitrate determines the flow needed to remove the daily production. When the daily production is not known one can not determine the flow needed. When a fish dies the reactor must have the flexibility to handle the change. The higher the flow, more space for the bacteria is needed to deplete the oxygen entered and keep the same reducing ability.
At low nitrate levels ( 1ppm to 2ppm) flow can be very high to remove the daily production. The daily production can change rapidly.

In most cases one does know that the amount of sulfur was not enough when problems have occurred. Using enough sulfur from the start avoids unnecessary problems and assures easy management.

Any way, keep us informed.

 

[AcroporAddict]

Sulfur as needed? Very difficult to manage. It is not possible to determine or estimate the amount of sulfur needed based on the level in the system.
When you want to use the denitrator as part of the system, I think it is not a good idea.
The amount of sulfure needed has little to do with the level of nitrate in the system. The level of nitrate determines the flow needed to remove the daily production. When the daily production is not known one can not determine the flow needed. When a fish dies the reactor must have the flexibility to handle the change. The higher the flow, more space for the bacteria is needed to deplete the oxygen entered and keep the same reducing ability.
At low nitrate levels ( 1ppm to 2ppm) flow can be very high to remove the daily production. The daily production can change rapidly.

In most cases one does know that the amount of sulfur was not enough when problems have occurred. Using enough sulfur from the start avoids unnecessary problems and assures easy management.

Any way, keep us informed.

Belgian,

This may not be the way you use and tune a sulfur denitrator, but most of the commercially made sulfur units, for example, the Korallin Series, instruct users to cycle the unit at a low drip rate, say 1-2 drops per second, until the effluent is showing 0 nitrate, then increase the drip rate, then wait until the effluent shows 0 nitrate again, and repeat until the efluent drip rate through the reactor keeps the reef tank nitrate level where the User wants it to be.

At a certain drip rate, you will exceed the denitrator's ability to completely process all the nitrate in the water going through it, and you will get a positive nitrate from a test of the effluent. That is the point where the volume of sulfur would need to be increased if that volume of sulfur is not processing enough nitrate to get you to what nitrate level you want in your reef system.

http://www.korallin.com/s1501eng.html

These reactors are not fluidized the way yours is. The sulfur and calcareous media remain still, and water in the denitrator is circulated through them via the recirculation pump, the Eheim 1048 on the top of the reactor, in the case of the Korallin denitrators.

I make it a practice to max out the flow rate in my denitrator so I know what the maximum flow through capacity of it is while still producing effluent with 0 nitrate. Then, I lower the flow rate until my system nitrate level is where I want it.

If the volume of sulfur in the reactor is not processing enough nitrate for my system, then I would just add more sulfur volume to the reactor to increase the nitrate processing capacity until I get to where I want to be.

That is what I meant by using sulfur, as needed.

My goal is not to have so much sulfur in the denitrator that it can process a nitrate spike from a complete fish death and decomposition. I am interested in the denitrator being able to process the daily nitrate production of my reef tank only. Regular system nitrate testing will tell me if I have to deal with a spike. But IME, a nitrate spike is not a huge emergency in a reef tank. If I get a nitrate spike, I would just increase the flow rate through the denitrator until the tank nitrate level was manageable again.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

How To

How To

Just for information:

This artikel was written by someone I know very well. It was first written in French in 1999 and translated and updated to Dutch in 2002. It was never published. In 2011 the dokuwiki Makazi Baharini was used to upload most of his findings and articles. The wikki Makazi Baharini is written in Dutch and is private for the moment.
This is a translation by me in English from the article uploaded and updated in 2012. The man used sulfur denitrators for as long as I can remember. I have the permission to translate his work and make it to a usable wiki for everybody; It will take me years to finish this, this translation is a start. This shows also where Abraham's mustard came from.

Guideline to reduce high amounts of nitrate and for estimating the amount of sulfur needed for uncomplicated management:

Most users will start to use a sulfur de-nitrator when nitrate has build up to high levels. One must be aware that a denitrator that works fine at a nitrate level of 30ppm may not work fine at a level of 10ppm. Reducing nitrate levels needs daily attention and follow up! And most important, enough sulfur!
Working fine means that the reactor is able to remove every day a bit more than the daily nitrate production .
A lot of users are confronted with the fact that the level thus not decent any more after a few days of remarkable reduction. To make more room for the reduction activities one may decide to reduce the flow, not realising that by doing that the reduction army in the reactor is starving . As the effluent stays 0 one will not know till it is to late and a rotten egg smell warns that something is badly wrong. This is the sign that the reactor was mismanaged. In most cases the smell comes from the decay of the biofilm. No panic, in most cases flow will be that low that there is no danger for living creatures, certainly not when our advise in "Why and how to use a sulfur de-nitrator" to aerate the effluent was followed.
When the nitrate level decreases flow must increase to make it possible for the reactor to remove the daily nitrate production and more. One thus not wait for correcting the flow till the reactor shows its limits are reached. When removing high levels of nitrate one has to adjust the flow regularly. When using a 1% reactor for reducing high levels of nitrate this has to be done daily the first days because high amounts of nitrate will be removed daily. When the reactor is not big enough for the system, at some point it will not be able to handle the flow any more and the reduction capacity will be reduced. At some point the daily production can not be removed any more. The reactor is to small for the system. Using a reactor that is big enough will solve the problem and/or avoids having this kind of complications.

How big is big enough?

We advise always and in all circumstances to use a 1% reactor. The reason why is explained in the chapter "Why and how to use a sulfur de-nitrator" of this wiki. A 1% reactor is a reactor filled with sulfur equal to 1% of the systems volume. It will work satisfactory at nitrate levels between 1ppm and 2 ppm depending of the daily production of nitrate to reduce.

Before starting using a de-nitrator one has to estimate the daily nitrate production of the system by taking a sample of the system water. The sample is taken as long as possible after feeding and again a few days later at the same moment. The best moment could be in the morning, just before the lights come on.
Knowing the daily production one can estimate the amount of sulfur necessary to reduce the nitrate level to the desired level without being encountered by the limits of the reactor. To determine the quantity of mg nitrate to remove one must also know the total system volume to be connected to the reactor.

ppm = mg/l

dP ppm/d x sV litre = sdP mg/d
(sdP x 1.1) / Dl = dF l/d

Dl= desired level ppm or mg/l
dF= daily flow l/d
dP= daily production mg/d
sV= system volume litre

dF/24h = F l/h
F /5l/h/lsd = DS
DS = desired quantity of sulfur in litre

We know that a tube reactor will still reduce nitrate at a flow of 10x its volume as explained in "How a sulfur de-nitrator works". To maintain a good workable reactor we have decided to limit the flow true the reactor to 5x its volume. The possibility to double the flow makes it possible to reduce the desired level by half when desired. For example from 2ppm to 1ppm.

Example: sV=1000l dP= 1ppm Dl = 2ppm

sdP will be 1000mg/day
dF will be 1100mg/ 2mg/l = 550l/day or F= 23l/h

DS= 23l/h / 5l/h/lS = 4.6l S

We estimate that 4.6 litre Sulfur will be enough to reduce more than the daily production every day for a system as exampled. This without being confronted with the limits of the reactor during the reduction phase of the nitrate level in the system.

This is only half of what is recommended by using a 1% reactor ( 10l for this example). The calculation is an estimation based on knowledge from years of experience and lap tests on tube reactors. We know that when a fluidized reactor is used one may expect better results.

When using a tube reactor channelling can not be avoided at low flow rates, which can be the reason for mismanagement. See "Why and how to use a sulfur de-nitrator". The effluent can show positive nitrate readings because part of the water was not processed. Reducing the flow will show the sign of mismanagement. High flow can remove the channel.

When using a 1% reactor on this example system, the reactor will be able to maintain a level of +-1ppm without being confronted with any reactor limits. It will be ready for a growing population and an increasing bio-load.

When starting up a system and planning to use a sulfur denitrator as part of the biological system we still recommend to use a 1% reactor as explained in "Why and how to use a sulfur de-nitrator". Based on the two parameters we know at the moment of start up, the systems volume and the desired nitrate level, an estimation of the sulfur quantity needed is not possible. We know a 1% reactor can serve us well for many years without complications and minimal maintenance.

Please add your comments and remarks to "Discussions".
De Matricaria

If any comments on the translation and / or content I will be glad to hear it.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Belgian,

This may not be the way you use and tune a sulfur denitrator, but most of the commercially made sulfur units, for example, the Korallin Series, instruct users to cycle the unit at a low drip rate, say 1-2 drops per second, until the effluent is showing 0 nitrate, then increase the drip rate, then wait until the effluent shows 0 nitrate again, and repeat until the efluent drip rate through the reactor keeps the reef tank nitrate level where the User wants it to be.

At a certain drip rate, you will exceed the denitrator's ability to completely process all the nitrate in the water going through it, and you will get a positive nitrate from a test of the effluent. That is the point where the volume of sulfur would need to be increased if that volume of sulfur is not processing enough nitrate to get you to what nitrate level you want in your reef system.

http://www.korallin.com/s1501eng.html

These reactors are not fluidized the way yours is. The sulfur and calcareous media remain still, and water in the denitrator is circulated through them via the recirculation pump, the Eheim 1048 on the top of the reactor, in the case of the Korallin denitrators.

I make it a practice to max out the flow rate in my denitrator so I know what the maximum flow through capacity of it is while still producing effluent with 0 nitrate. Then, I lower the flow rate until my system nitrate level is where I want it.

If the volume of sulfur in the reactor is not processing enough nitrate for my system, then I would just add more sulfur volume to the reactor to increase the nitrate processing capacity until I get to where I want to be.

That is what I meant by using sulfur, as needed.

My goal is not to have so much sulfur in the denitrator that it can process a nitrate spike from a complete fish death and decomposition. I am interested in the denitrator being able to process the daily nitrate production of my reef tank only. Regular system nitrate testing will tell me if I have to deal with a spike. But IME, a nitrate spike is not a huge emergency in a reef tank. If I get a nitrate spike, I would just increase the flow rate through the denitrator until the tank nitrate level was manageable again.

Some remarks:
Tube or fluidized, the principle is the same. A fluidized reactor will never clog and tunnelling or channelling will be avoided. A tube reactor will always have channelling issues at low drip rates. The produced gas will find its way up and make tunnels. As the flow will follow the way of the least resistance it will follow the created tunnels and channels true the media which means that only a part of the media will be used and an other part will become without oxygen.

Then, I lower the flow rate until my system nitrate level is where I want it. This will not work!

It is much better to increase the flow regularly and not wait till the reactor reaches its limits.The advise of the manufacturer is theoretically correct but makes a mess in practice. For example: You are a weekend out and feeding occurs 12 hours later than normal. This means the daily production is reduced by +- 50%. This means also that the level will decent more rapidly. If your reactor has reached its limits at that moment, at the same flow less nitrate will enter the reactor and when you come home you may smell the result. You will not know the reactor is at its limits as at the moment it happens. In practice one does not measure nitrates every day. When reducing high nitrate levels, increase the flow a bit before leaving home for a long period.

You are planning to add sulfur when needed. Do you keep it in stock?
Why not use it than in the first place avoiding opening the reactor, starting up the reactor again which takes +- one week incubation and when incubated finding the balance of the reactor which takes also 3 or 4 days. Are you going to do this once ore twice during the reduction of the level to acceptable readings? Why not use enough sulfur at start when the reactor can hold it?
When filling up the capacity of the reactor most of the complications mentioned will be avoided.
I know you have answered most questions already. It is your choice.
I am curious where and how this will end. Keep us informed!

 

[BROTHERSPIZZERIA]

Going with a 6" reactor but can't get the pipe until Tuesday unless I want 10 feet. I'll keep updating as I move forward.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

pipe?

pipe?

Going with a 6" reactor but can't get the pipe until Tuesday unless I want 10 feet. I'll keep updating as I move forward.

Do you need a pipe? When you make the reactor fluidized a plastic Jar will do, or an old water bottle. Any container usable for drinking water or food transport that can be closed air tight will do.

 

[BROTHERSPIZZERIA]

Do you need a pipe? When you make the reactor fluidized a plastic Jar will do, or an old water bottle. Any container usable for drinking water or food transport that can be closed air tight will do.

Completely lost me on this one. A water bottle?? My reactor is gonna be made with pvc that is 6 inches round and 24 to 30 inches tall so it should hold a tremendous amount of media. 6 inch pvc isn't very popular so you have to buy it in 10 foot sections which in my case will be alot of waste.

 

[AcroporAddict]

Completely lost me on this one. A water bottle?? My reactor is gonna be made with pvc that is 6 inches round and 24 to 30 inches tall so it should hold a tremendous amount of media. 6 inch pvc isn't very popular so you have to buy it in 10 foot sections which in my case will be alot of waste.

I'd want a sturdy container for the reactor body. Get yourself a decent nitrate test kit as well. I like the Salifert nitrate kit. Seems pretty accurate and not hard to read.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

bottles?

bottles?

Completely lost me on this one. A water bottle?? My reactor is gonna be made with pvc that is 6 inches round and 24 to 30 inches tall so it should hold a tremendous amount of media. 6 inch pvc isn't very popular so you have to buy it in 10 foot sections which in my case will be alot of waste.

Yes, an old water bottle as used in water dipensers. I think they exists in 3 and 5 gal. Any way, any plastic container will do. Plasic containers or buckets used for food transport are ideal because they have a big lid, easy to access for building purposes. And sturdy. These are 15 litre jars. They sell between 5€ and 10€ on the 2hand market in Belgium. They are also very suitable to make transport containers for live stock. They are available in many sizes an can be used for lots of things.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

foto

foto

Yes, an old water bottle as used in water dipensers. I think they exists in 3 and 5 gal. Any way, any plastic container will do. Plasic containers or buckets for used for food transport are ideal because they have a big lid, easy to access for building purposes. And sturdy. These are 15 litre jars. They sell between 5€ and 10€ on the 2hand market in Belgium. They are also very suitable to make transport containers for live stock. They are available in many sizes an can be used for lots of things.

I had attached a photo but it did not work. Try again

 

[tmz]

FYI,
The LSM you posted is what I've used. It doesn't have a posted a weight on the label and most of the greenhouse supplies sell by the pound ;makes it hard to compare The gallon size feels like about 5 lbs (Acro noted 9lbs so I'd use that for comparison). The greenhouse stuff goes for 5 to 6 dollars a pound up to $10 for high purity stuff. Here is a link to it:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/121004607416?lpid=82

CACO3 like arm calcium reactor media adds both calcium an alk when it dissolves. The sulfur bacterial reaction only uses the alk. I prefer to dose extra baked baking soda/soda ash(NaCO3) to the tank to make up the alk loss without the extra calcium.