DIY Sulfur Denitrator

Correction

Correction

Belgian Anthias said:
That is true. It depends of the daily to remove quantity and the desired level in the system. When low nitrate levels are desired daily flow will be higher as the systems volume. A good reactor must be able to pass daily the systems volume otherwise low nitrate levels can not be kept.
When for example a 1000l system produces 0.5ppm/day, 500mg nitrate has to be removed daily. At a level of 1ppm, 250l flow a day will remove the production. If low nitrate levels are desired, as do most reef keepers, at 0.2ppm the daily flow must be equal to the systems volume to remove the daily production. At 0.1 ppm flow will be twice the systems volume.If daily nitrate production builds up, the reactor must be able to keep the same low nitrate level and flow has to increase more. The reactor must be big enough to handle the flow needed.
It is true, the systems volume does not need to pass true the reactor every day, but a reactor that can be used in most circumstances must be able to handle at least the systems volume once a day, otherwise keeping the nitrate level low will not be possible in a well fed aquarium.
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Corrections has to be made due to wrong calculations. To remove 500 mg at 1 ppm, 500 l must pass true the reactor daily. At 0.5 ppm the daily flow must be equal to the systems volume. To keep a level off 0.1ppm the system volume has to pass true the reactor 5x daily.
At high flow rates ( low nitrate level, high daily production) the reactor bust be big enough to reduce the incoming quantity of oxygen and keep the same NO3 reducing capacity. Sulfur de-nitrators can handle very high flow, till 10x the reactors volume/h, when it is big enough.
 
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Belgian Anthias said:
Simple mathematics. Only when the reactor is big enough.
Sorry,but the calculation above is not correct; If 500mg has to be removed, at a nitrate level of 1ppm 500l has to pass the reactor daily to remove the daily production and not 250l.
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For clarity, the calculaltion is yours as quaoted from your earlie post ; not mine.
 
For what it's worth.

For what it's worth.

I haven't used the Caribsea pellet product that I already have because I found that my problem is too much P not N.

My only reason for posting this is to say that I have used lots of their other products over the years. I know the guy that runs the formulation side of the business and he is a marine biologist. He knows his chemistry very well and their products are typically of the highest quality.
 
So just l.s.m. or aragonite also. So basically is aragonite a must have with this type reactor. I've read alot but looking for some current opinions as alot of the stuff I've read is really old
 
BROTHERSPIZZERIA said:
So just l.s.m. or aragonite also. So basically is aragonite a must have with this type reactor. I've read alot but looking for some current opinions as alot of the stuff I've read is really old
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The effluent from the sulfur denitrator will eat up alkalinity, thus the use of ARM media in the reactor with the LSM to help bump it up prior to it hitting the water volume of the tank

You do not necessarily have to have ARM in the denitrator itself, but the alkalinity will come from somewhere, meaning the water column. If you decide to use only sulfur, then monitor and make appropriate changes to your alkalinity dosing, be it 2 pat or a calcium reactor, if necessary.

FWIW, I use Caribsea LSM and it works fine. The only other yellow type media available is stuff from Korallin and Aqua-Medic, and their sulfur media is much more expensive than the CaribSea product. Physically, the CaribSea product looks like granules of varying sizes, not really round. The European product looks like little spheres of a fairly uniform size. They call them sulfur pearls. Perhaps a bit more size consistent, but probably not necessary for proper function of the denitrator.
 
So the arm can go in the same reactor with the lsm. Just put the arm on top of a sponge? Sound ok. I currently dose 2 part on a doser so no biggie for adjusting. I thought the arm was mainly to stabilize ph and no matter what the alk was gonna drop significantly.
 
BROTHERSPIZZERIA said:
So the arm can go in the same reactor with the lsm. Just put the arm on top of a sponge? Sound ok. I currently dose 2 part on a doser so no biggie for adjusting. I thought the arm was mainly to stabilize ph and no matter what the alk was gonna drop significantly.
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Yup, any Ca reactor media on top and sulfur on the bottom. Usual mix is 50% sulfur and 50% ARM. The ARM adds bicarbonate back into the effluent, which eventually raises the water pH. I have 2 gallons of sulfur and 2 gallons ARM in my denitrator.

Here is an article by Randy about the relationship between Alkalinity and pH:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/5/chemistry
 
Ok so lsm and arm are gonna be my media of choice. Seems alot of people use it with good results. Now to the final question on amount. Not sure exactly what info you need.
Around 180 total gallons. Current nitrates because of huge water changes is 40. If I don't change water for 3 weeks or so nitrates will be to 80 plus in no time. How much of each should I use? before the question may arise trust me I have exhausted every possible Avenue as to why my nitrates are so high and tried every remedy. This has been a 2 year battle so this is a last ditch effort on the nitrate battle.
 
BROTHERSPIZZERIA said:
Ok so lsm and arm are gonna be my media of choice. Seems alot of people use it with good results. Now to the final question on amount. Not sure exactly what info you need.
Around 180 total gallons. Current nitrates because of huge water changes is 40. If I don't change water for 3 weeks or so nitrates will be to 80 plus in no time. How much of each should I use? before the question may arise trust me I have exhausted every possible Avenue as to why my nitrates are so high and tried every remedy. This has been a 2 year battle so this is a last ditch effort on the nitrate battle.
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Before I had my new large denitrator built by GEO, I used a Midwest Aquatics denitrator, that was the larger of the two in their two sized denitrator lineup. That size should be a good starting point. I assume you are DIYing it? You need a recirculation pump on this for sure. I used .7 gallons of LSM and .7 gallons of ARM. I would start there and then see if you need more or less, then adjust. Make sure you use an appropriately sized cylinder that will hold enough media. That setup would approximate this commercially made Korralin denitrator, of which my Midwest aquatics model was a knockoff.

One other thing. I believe the Korralin and MidWest models are quite overrated in their system volume recommendations, kind of like protein skimmers, so I would look at half of the stated volume recommendations as a starting point. I had to go larger because even though my 465 gallon SPS tank is low nutrient, I had maxxed out the flow rate in my Midwest unit and could not get below about 10 nitrate.

http://www.marinedepot.com/Korallin...te_Reactors-Korallin-KL9111K-FIFRISDN-vi.html
 
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Estimation

Estimation

BROTHERSPIZZERIA said:
Ok so lsm and arm are gonna be my media of choice. Seems alot of people use it with good results. Now to the final question on amount. Not sure exactly what info you need.
Around 180 total gallons. Current nitrates because of huge water changes is 40. If I don't change water for 3 weeks or so nitrates will be to 80 plus in no time. How much of each should I use? before the question may arise trust me I have exhausted every possible Avenue as to why my nitrates are so high and tried every remedy. This has been a 2 year battle so this is a last ditch effort on the nitrate battle.
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Try to estimate your daily production of NO3. Take a sample in the morning before the lights come on. Do the same at the same time a few days later. De-nitrator not connected.

An estimation for this system:
You have a build up of more than 40ppm in 3 weeks? This means a NO3 production of minimal 2ppm/day or for a 680l system (180G) +- 1400mg daily which is a lot.
For the moment, at 40ppm and a flow of 1 drop/s ( +- 0,4l/h) you are removing +- 400mg daily. Flow must be minimal 35l/day or+-1.5l/h to remove the daily production and keep the level at 40ppm.
For this system you need a reactor that can handle a flow of 700l/day or 30l/h to bring down the nitrate level to 2ppm at the same feeding rate. This means you need minimal 6l of sulfur.
I can only give the same advise as I do for everybody. Use a 1% reactor ( 1% of the system volume) In this case 7l or 1.8 gal sulfur for problem-less management. At this feeding rate, to bring down the level to 1ppm, you need a 2% reactor.


Use minimal the same amount of calcium and calcium-carbonate media, better twice that much. At this reduction rate PH can become very low, and must be stabilized. Water must be aerated before entering the display. (skimmer?) Make sure all media is fluidized to prevent clogging and channelling.

Your nitrate problems will be solved for many years.
 
So your saying a minimum of 1.8 pounds of calcium carbonate but double that would be better? My reactor will be made from a 4" pvc pipe at 4 foot height. Recirculating of course.
 
BROTHERSPIZZERIA said:
So your saying a minimum of 1.8 pounds of calcium carbonate but double that would be better? My reactor will be made from a 4" pvc pipe at 4 foot height. Recirculating of course.
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Are you going to build a tube reactor?
Any recipient with a lid that closes air tight will do.
I would use 2 gal of sulfur and minimum 3 gal of calcium media, or more. This can bring the level to below 2ppm. If a level of 5ppm or even 10ppm is good enough, less sulfur is needed. You are feeding a lot and 2ppm NO3 production a day depletes the alkalinity during the nitrification cycle. Reducing this amount of nitrate by means of a sulfur -denitrator depletes alkalinity even more. Reducing that amount of NO3 at high nitrate level and low flow will bring the PH of the effluent to read 6.8 and even lower. This will help to dissolve the calcium carbonate.
You are going to use a tube of +- 6 litre. Are you using an other tube for calcium media?
It is better to use two different reactors because the calcium reactor has to be serviced regularly, the sulfur reactor once or twice a year.

Please make your calculations in volume and not in weight.
 
Is the servicing of the calcium reactor more often because it will deplete much quicker?
I was planning on one reactor but if 2 is necessary then it's what I have to do. Do you know of any build threads or schematics I can get a visual on of how to do it with 2 diy reactors?
 
BROTHERSPIZZERIA said:
So your saying a minimum of 1.8 pounds of calcium carbonate but double that would be better? My reactor will be made from a 4" pvc pipe at 4 foot height. Recirculating of course.
Click to expand...

I would go back and reread the sections of this thread where TMZ and Belgian are discussing the amount of sulfur needed. Tom relates his experience with a very large volume system where he didn't use a lot of sulfur and successfully brought nitrate levels down, and Belgian is all about the 1% or 2% of system sulfur volume, which uses a lot more sulfur than what I think most users in the US do.

I am not saying who is correct. I currently have 2 gallons of LSM n my reactor, and can expand if needed. I would suggest the previous amount I recommended as a starting point, and if it doesn't do the job, then increase it. It is pretty easy to add more sulfur to a denitrator if you have to. You can easily run just sulfur in the recirculating part, and plumb an in-line single pass media reactor with ARM in it after the denitrator to deal with t alkalinity consumption.
 
BROTHERSPIZZERIA said:
Do you think I could get by with my single diy model or do you think the avast I posted a link to would be a better option from the start with dual chamber?
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The problem with the AVAST reactor you posted is it is a single pass media reactor, like what you'd use for carbon or GFO, not a recirculating reactor, at least that is what it looks like from the picture in the link. You would have to make one of them a recirculating reactor to get the most benefit with the sulfur. If you have a separate recirculating reactor for the sulfur, and use one of the AVAST single pass units for Ca Reactor media, then OK, but I would not use one of them for the sulfur without a recirculating pump on it.

If you can get your hands on a cheap used calcium reactor, you could easily convert it into a sulfur denitrator.
 
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