Do baffles in the sump really work to prevent micro bubbles?

[db_triggerfish]

Do baffles in the sump really work to prevent micro bubbles? I have a new DAS EX-1 skimmer which takes up a lot of space and if i go with a 25gal sump i will not have room for baffles. If baffles do work then i will most likely go with a custom build sump. Since i would like to have room under the 90g for other equipment not just a sump. I ordered a CPR Aquatics sump inlet assemblies with two inlets which is 8.5 x 8.5 inches. I plan to use one for the tank overflow and the other for the skimmer out flow, with the 7 inches filter bag it also takes a lot of space.

THANKS,

 

[tripinpn01]

yes

 

[carlos_fb]

Knowing where the micro bubbles are coming from would help you decide how many baffles you will need and where you should place them.

 

[sjm817]

No, they do not. Tiny micro-bubbles are not buoyant enough to be stopped by a bubble trap. They ride right through. They only stop large bubbles. A bubble trap can actually make the problem worse by pulling the bubbles down low in the sump and decreasing the distance between the source of the bubbles and the return.

 

[crumbletop]

It depends on the speed of the water through the sump, the position of the baffles, and the distance between baffles. The beauty of baffles is they make sure all bubbles make it close to the surface. Higher flow through the sump gives the bubbles less time to escape, so that is why flow is an important factor. IME, they work great.

 

[JeffReef]

Baffles are a must IMO to keep most of the bubbles from entering the display tank. You'll want the baffles to be high enough in order to move the bubbles up to the surface before it can reach the return pump intake.

I have a three chambered sump (intake/refugium/return) with only two baffles and it works great.

 

[sjm817]

I've tried 1", 1.5, 2" spacing in 3 sumps now. All sumps are low flow. My current sump is a 75G. The baffles are 2" apart, 12" tall and 18" wide. It has maybe 700 GPH going through it. Like always, tiny micro-bubbles will just ride right through the baffles since they are not very buoyant and wont float to the surface. The whole idea of this type of bubble trap is seriously flawed for this reason.

 

[JeffReef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10638634#post10638634 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
I've tried 1", 1.5, 2" spacing in 3 sumps now. All sumps are low flow. My current sump is a 75G. The baffles are 2" apart, 12" tall and 18" wide. It has maybe 700 GPH going through it. Like always, tiny micro-bubbles will just ride right through the baffles since they are not very buoyant and wont float to the surface. The whole idea of this type of bubble trap is seriously flawed for this reason.

Do you have bubbles in your display tank?

My sump is very simple and I have no visible bubbles comming from the return pump.

 

[sjm817]

No, I dont have any microbubble issue, but that has nothing to do with the bubble trap.

 

[JeffReef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10638769#post10638769 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
No, I dont have any microbubble issue, but that has nothing to do with the bubble trap.

Hmm,...I don't know where you're comming from. I thought the issue was about whether baffles work.

Where did bubble trap come into play? I've reread the first post twice and did not see anything about bubble trap. However, I also wear contacts and may just be too blind to see it.

 

[sjm817]

When people speak of baffles and stopping bubbles, they typically mean the O-U-O, or U-O-U baffles in a "bubbletrap" arrangement. Maybe that is not what the OP meant. My point is this very common baffle arrangement is ineffective for stopping micro-bubbles.

My eyesight is not real good either...

 

[crumbletop]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10638634#post10638634 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
I've tried 1", 1.5, 2" spacing in 3 sumps now. All sumps are low flow. My current sump is a 75G. The baffles are 2" apart, 12" tall and 18" wide. It has maybe 700 GPH going through it. Like always, tiny micro-bubbles will just ride right through the baffles since they are not very buoyant and wont float to the surface. The whole idea of this type of bubble trap is seriously flawed for this reason.

I disagree that the design of bubble traps is flawed. With them I have no bubbles, without them, I had bubbles. Everything else stayed the same. I suppose if there were a ton of bubbles the bubble traps may not have removed them all. I have found baffles to be very effective.

 

[sjm817]

A bubble trap will stop large bubbles. It will not stop microbubbles.

 

[rishma]

my experience and observations are consistent with sjm817's posts.

with micro bubbles, i have found that baffles can make them worse because they increase the velocity of the water mass and hold the very tiny low buoyancy bubble in the water column. removing baffles has reduced bubles carrying into the main tank. using a smaller pump to decrease flow though sump is also effective.

getting micro bubbles out works similarly to a settling tank and bernoulli's principle, only the bubbles float rather than particles sinking. large suface area an very slow velocities will allow the tiny bubbles to reach the surface. baffles increase velocity and the currents will hold the bubbles under.

baffles do help with bigger bubbles

 

[marcrothschild]

I also agree with sjm817, I have had sumps with baffles and without, the key is having a large enough sump to allow for a slower movement of water through the sump. What does work very well is a filter sock on the drain line, as well as on your skimmer output.

 

[BeanAnimal]

It take a combination of facters.. as rishma has stated.

Baffles are not good or bad, it just depends on how they are used and how the rest of the setup is configured.

My baffles work like a charm and are situated in an U-O-U setup that is around the corner from the display drains. The mouth of the last U baffle has a pile of rock rubble in front if it. The rest of the sump has a large surface area and holds maybe 50-60 gallons. No bubbles make it to the return pump.

My drains are almost 100% bubble free now, but were not before. Even when I had standard Dursos, the setup and baffles did their job.

Bean

 

[sjm817]

The best design is a large sump (not always possible), and slow flow. Keep the bubbles at the surface of the water, and as far away from the return as possible. Dont pull them down low into the sump. Let the bubbles dissipate at the surface.

 

[JeffReef]

okay, I understand both points of view now.

I can't comment from experience on the 'U' type baffles because I have no experience on them. But I suppose that the 'U' type could still work with less flow and with longer water travel between the first and second set of baffles (for 3 chamber sump) to allow the micro bubbles to float. With less resistance, the micro bubbles (no matter how less bouyant) will have no choice but to rise to the surface.

 

[JeffReef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10639655#post10639655 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
The best design is a large sump (not always possible), and slow flow. Keep the bubbles at the surface of the water, and as far away from the return as possible. Dont pull them down low into the sump. Let the bubbles dissipate at the surface.

Exactly what I meant.

 

[crumbletop]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10639314#post10639314 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
A bubble trap will stop large bubbles. It will not stop microbubbles.

I'm talking microbubbles, not large.... All these arguments re speed etc, I agree with in principle -- that is exactly why I posted some of the parameters that can affect the outcome. There is vertical distance for bubbles, as well as horizontal distance. I have a fair amount of microbubbles from my skimmer and from the drain to my sump. They exit low in the sump and without baffles they didn't get high enough to avoid the return pump. With baffles they do by decreasing the vertical distance. It's all a balance. If the flow is too fast for the baffle design, then they won't rise. I can actually see the microbubbles in my sump going over a baffle, start down and then curl back up. There is effectively a dead area of flow on the distal side of the 2 "over" baffles on my bubble trap.