Do I get a new clownfish

[texdoc77]

I had two ocellaris clownfish and yesterday one of them passed. They were young to the tank (one month) and similar in size. I do not know if either of them had turned female, yet it was the slightly smaller of the two and less dominant one that passed. I do not have an overwhelming desire to replace him unless he NEEDS to be replaced. I have researched that you can keep them as a mated pair, but I do not plan on breeding them.

Thoughts are appreciated...

 

[addictedreefer]

Should first determine cause of death for the clown before adding anything else.

 

[hotelbravo]

You don't need to replace if you don't want to. Theread is no reason you can't have just one. Your might be happier with a partner but it's not a necessity.

 

[texdoc77]

How would I determine cause of death after obviously checking water parameters?

 

[ThRoewer]

Did he show any symptoms before dying?

Right now you probably shouldn't add another fish. First you need to see if the remaining one is healthy.

In the long run I would advise to get a partner for the one you have now. It's just better for the fish as clownfish are almost always in pairs.

 

[texdoc77]

Gotcha, so being fairly new I did observe some different behavior over the last week but cannot determine if it is normal or was a sign. It would swim by itself in more secluded areas, but fed well. This may sound weird, but it was almost as if it and the other clownfish broke up and it was sad... does that happen, I swear that is what it seemed like. For the first several weeks they swam and did most things in close proximity, but over the last week the slightly larger one was a little more aggressive towards the smaller one and I wondered if there was courtship going on, but now perhaps it was a nasty break up...

 

[kwsjimmy]

humm

humm

What are the tank perameters.. ammonia.. salinity? ? Temp

 

[texdoc77]

Ammonia nitrite and nitrate all zero
Po4 0-0.25
Salinity 1.025
pH 8.0
Temp 78
Alk 8
Ca 520

 

[Dkuhlmann]

It's very rare to have 0 nitrates and not a good thing anyway unless all you have are SPS corals. I'd look to another reason you lost your fish. Nitrates of -10 are recommended for most all aquarium life fish and most corals included with the exception of SPS.

 

[texdoc77]

Yeah my API kit says 0, but who knows, I'm sure there is a little room for error, point is nitrates and phosphates are stable and low, and really my initial question of whether I should get another clownfish has kinda been answered to my satisfaction; basically I can live with one, but he/she may be happier with a mate. Just to thicken the plot a bit though here is an add on question. The night my clownfish passed I had added a GBTA and now the other clown has begun hosting it, would this change your thoughts on whether or not I should add another ocellaris?

 

[Sprink669]

one of my clowns died and I ended up getting another one about 2 months later (cause the kids said he looked lonely)
I will have to say once the 2 were introduced it was like they were long lost friends.
Now they never leave each other's side

 

[Dkuhlmann]

I agree with having two clowns but more importantly you have to figure out why yours died before getting a new mate for your existing one. Also if and when you do get another one make sure it's a lot smaller than the one you currently have.

 

[garygb]

I agree with the other posters that you will want to wait and observe your remaining clownfish to see if any illness develops. After a month if all is well, then introduce a smaller specimen. The one you have will be at least in the process of transitioning to female, and based on your description, it sounds like your remaining clown already is female.

I would say undetectable nitrates are a good goal to strive for, although clownfish are not particularly affected by nitrates. Natural seawater has very low nitrate levels and trying to achieve a natural environment as much as possible is always a good thing. I do not agree with this: "Nitrates of -10 are recommended for most all aquarium life fish and most corals included with the exception of SPS."

 

[Dkuhlmann]

I agree with the other posters that you will want to wait and observe your remaining clownfish to see if any illness develops. After a month if all is well, then introduce a smaller specimen. The one you have will be at least in the process of transitioning to female, and based on your description, it sounds like your remaining clown already is female.

I would say undetectable nitrates are a good goal to strive for, although clownfish are not particularly affected by nitrates. Natural seawater has very low nitrate levels and trying to achieve a natural environment as much as possible is always a good thing. I do not agree with this: "Nitrates of -10 are recommended for most all aquarium life fish and most corals included with the exception of SPS."

Really? This is as stated on Vivid Aquariums website on just about every fish listed as well as LPS, we all know softies like dirty water too.


Percula Clownfish
Maximum Length: 3"
Care Level: Easy
Family: Pomacentridae
Reef Compatibility: Excellent
Minimum Aquarium Size: 30 gal.
Range: Indo Pacific, Australia, Solomon Islands
Diet: Omnivore
Water Conditions: 75-80° F; sg 1.024-1.026 (1.025 is ideal); pH 8.1-8.4
Ca 420-440 ppm, Alk 8-9.5 dKH, Mg 1260-1350, Nitrates <10ppm, Phosphates, < .10ppm

http://www.vividaquariums.com/p-6297-percula-clownfish.aspx



Atomic Torch Coral
Care Level: Easy
Lighting Requirements: Moderate (PAR 150-250)
Water Flow: Moderate
Aggressiveness: Aggressive
Range: Fiji, Indo Pacific, Australia, Solomon Islands
Family: Caryophyllidae
Water Conditions: 75-80° F; sg 1.024-1.026 (1.025 is ideal); pH 8.1-8.4
Ca 420-440 ppm, Alk 8-9.5 dKH, Mg 1260-1350, Nitrates <10ppm, Phosphates, < .10ppm

http://www.vividaquariums.com/p-7487-atomic-torch-coral.aspx

 

[garygb]

Dkulhman, not sure why anyone would recommend a nitrate level of 10 when in nature it is at undetectable levels on the average aquarists nitrate test kit. Here is an article on parameters that you might find informative:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/

 

[ThRoewer]

"Nitrate < 10" means that the nitrates should be less than 10 - see here: Less-than sign

So "0" should be just fine.
Now, the likelihood to actually have "0" nitrates is slim to none, even if you just have rocks, corals and micro life. It's just that hobby tests lack the resolution to test "0" (assuming that the test is executed and e read correctly).
If you read "0" the correct test result should be "trace" or below xx

Now, fish will handle much higher nitrates or phosphates than usually recommended and high values of those are rarely the source of problems with fish.

 

[Dkuhlmann]

"Nitrate < 10" means that the nitrates should be less than 10 - see here: Less-than sign

So "0" should be just fine.
Now, the likelihood to actually have "0" nitrates is slim to none, even if you just have rocks, corals and micro life. It's just that hobby tests lack the resolution to test "0" (assuming that the test is executed and e read correctly).
If you read "0" the correct test result should be "trace" or below xx

Now, fish will handle much higher nitrates or phosphates than usually recommended and high values of those are rarely the source of problems with fish.

This is pretty much the way my common sense reads what I posted. You do however spell it out in a different way and maybe one that others can grasp the concept of >10

One other thing to add is that IF you have any kind of algae in your tank there is no way that you have 0 nitrates and 0 phosphates.

 

[texdoc77]

Yes, I tested again last night and I use an API color based test. Phosphates continue to be between 0 and 0.25. The API test again has a color for 0 and a color for 5 and my "color" last night was much closer if not identical to the color for 0, much more so than for 5. However, I totally understand human error elements with this kind of testing and agree that it is likely not 0.00. As I said earlier it still pretty low regardless.

And to play devils advocate, you COULD have 0 nitrates/phosphates even with algae in the tank... if the algae had used it all up and were dying off... but I know that is not the point that was being made.

My plan at this point will be to wait the said month and purchase a smaller ocellaris. I did want to bring back up my question about the "break up" of the two ocellaris the few days before the smaller one passed. Any experience with that from anyone?

 

[ThRoewer]

How big was the little one and how big is the larger? I found that a significant size difference gets them more quickly to pair up.
If they are too close in size you may get fighting, especially if they are the only fish in the tank and the "We against Them" factor is missing.

So far all the pairs I put together from cherry-picked individuals worked out almost instantly. Only my first pair came as a "pair" and they took almost 6 month to really bond. A factor of that may also be that they are near identical in size.

The dying of the little one could have been related to internal fighting (unless you sit all day in front of the tank you wouldn't know) or he was sick and that was the reason they broke up.

Regarding the tests - the color tests are often quite ambiguous and the amount of fluid insufficient for a precise reading by eye. Only a photometer could get a halfway decent reading.
Nitrates and phosphates are best read on algae or more precisely corals' polyp extension. I don't care about the precise value, I care about the effect it has.