Don't laugh... All I have is a tank... and a dream (nightmare?)

Thanks all! I am moving at break-neck speed, but believe me, I'm probably going to make a slow decision. I have about 2 'completely free' weeks before I need to go into teacher mode and with new classes, I'll be slammed for another month. I've gone to several LFS's and picked (sometimes 2) their brains for advice. I never knew of a site like this back when I was doing it and I have to say I've learned more in the past 48 (with great advice, I might add... I've been on a lot!!!) than when I was in this 'assembly' phase 4-5 years ago. I aslo might add, there's about a million more choices to add to the confusion.

I don't know what is good, or even great, at this point (It's hard to decide if it's just the salesman selling me things)... but I think I'm starting to get a picture of what is bad or what to stay away from. Going face to face with salemen is what I had to do a few years ago, and what I'm comfortable with because as one question gets answered, it seems like there's another 10 that come up. I'm not great yet with this board (I've only done a few bulletin boards in my life) and so sometimes it's hard to keep track of which question I asked who (PM's especially)... those other 10 new questions are confusing to keep track of.

My short range goal is to:
To rejuvenate my dead rock to live rock
I would like to factor in my 50lbs (I finally weighed it) of (now dead) rock, but I know that it will take a couple of months to re-spawn it. My startup goal at 1.25lbs per gallon for a 63gallon = 70-80lbs. I'm figuring that if I buy 30lbs and revive my rock, I'll be there and then I can add another 20lbs somewhere before I start thinking about putting live things in the tank.
- Conflicting reports on doing this... some said... no you don't need a skimmer for rejuvenating rock, some say I do. (Interestingly, some say that I don't even need a skimmer at all?!?) I'm researching all of this and I'm staying open-minded. Lights a must though.

So I'm at the crossroad... to which I'm (admittedly) trying to hurry (meaning another 2 weeks). My solution...
- Buy a lighting unit at a GREAT 'steal' that in 2 months during the revival of the liverock will most likely go on top of the tank to start and to be used until (the earliest upgrade forseen) Spring (when I might have money again) or if it is trully a great steal then something that will be used forever. Cost/value goal that I'm looking for... USED that will (in 6 months) re-sell for about 90% of what I got it for (so this excludes all new store bought items probably). The skimmer... that can be another 2 months decision, but since I'm in the lights shop, I'm doing an overview recon. I hate to say it, but I'm using the dealers right now, but there will be plenty of time to take my money later and I'm also getting a feel of which stores I feel I can trust.

I like your advice pupfish, but someone told me more $ doesn't always mean better. I am looking though to HEALTHILY (meaning within reason) do things more than what they're rated... for instance get a skimmer that's rated for 100gal or better for my 63gal tank.

How about this... starting with lighting... what (specific) BRANDS would be good for a 63g (48"Lx16"Wx19"D) reef with softies for corals and a few fish... I am NOT planning on harder SPS's or clams for at least 3 years. Sorted by costs:

High-
Medium-
Low-
Best Value advice for me:

Thanks all. This will help me know what I'm looking for.
 
JCKobashi
You're asking a lot of questions that have answers that will vary with each person that answers. Most everything is personal preference... lighting amount, colors, lbs of rock, amount of flow, etc... there is no 1 answer (or even 2 or 3).
Examples:
I have 60-65lb of rock in my 29g... it is required... maybe, maybe not. For me it is, others will tell me it is not... then again, I never use a skimmer... most everyone else does... my tank is stable, unless I do something stupid, and it recovers very quickly with simple water changes... does theirs?
I like a slight blue tint to the colors of my tank and have balanced my MH & T5s accordingly to ballance color, light amount, and growth of all types of corals... this is over 4 years of; research, trying different lighting types, bulb combos, color combos, etc... most have not done this and those that have will have a different preference to tell you about.

So what I'm saying is ultimately YOU are the one that can give you the best answers... we can only give our opinions... and you know what they say about opinions ;)

If you are a DIYer give me a call... I can give you lots of good info on doing higher-end stuff on the cheap... or just buy my setup and you are good to go :P
 
FIRST!!! slow down, buy some BOOKS---"AQUARIUM CORALS by Borneman, REEF INVERTS by Calfo and Fenner, REEF SECRETS by Nielsen&Fossa, Fartheree etc, there are lots of great books with PROVEN methods. SECOND!! read them. Third, talk to some experts- go to some (not just one) lfs's, and talk to the people there. look around, how does it look,smell, what do the tanks look like, what do the animals look like? do the employees even have "existing" tanks. Fourth, slow down again and plan your tank! what animals do I want?, What corals do I want?, how do i shape my aqauscape to best suit the needs for the animals, the flow rate, the lighting, my equipment, and lots more. make time to play devils advicate and don't let anyone/anywhere turn your tank into theirs. just some thoughts.
 
This is my idea on lighting since money is an issue for you. I have a fixture with T5 and MH bulbs. The T5 bulbs don't raise my tank temp at all. when my MH turns on I have to run a small fan to keep my temp stable, this costs more electric. The MH bulbs are 2-3 times more expensive than the T5s. you will need to keep that in mind as you will have to change them all about every 8-12 months. I think MH is just a lot more expensive than T5 and if I had to do it over I would only run T5s.
For the filter.... My new tank I am setting up will not use a canister filter because I will have a sump. the sump will allow me to run carbon or anything else I may need. Also, canister filters can suck when it is time to clean them. My 75 gallon uses a canister filter but that is because I don't have a sump on it and I like to run carbon all the time. I hope this post does not have too many errors, I am typing this on my phone. I will give you a more detailed response when I have a better keypad to type on ha-ha.
 
There are almost as many solutions as there are people giving advice. The funny part is that almost all of the solutions can/ have worked for giving the advice. The important part is to define your goals and then you can define what will work to that end.

Read more. Once you have settled on a clear idea of what kind of tank you want then you can begin to define your limiters in terms of finances, tank size, time available... well the list the list can be long.

After all of that. collect the pieces parts to execute your plan and develop a timeline. As someone on RC's tagline says nothing good in reefing ever happens fast.
 
heres a quote that speaks truth:
The only thing two reefers can agree on is what the third is doing wrong!
lol! Just came to mind.
 
Forgive my rants... but this thread is also like a diary of my thoughts so I can keep track of it... also, one of my friends told me that this is good for me and anyone that is wanting to help, so they can see the evolution of the thought processes. Thank you for your posts, because I REALLY am listening and learning a great deal. I'm having a difficult time putting it all together because the advice is very different in some cases, but I'm still learning and (occasionally) it coincides and starts to click for me.

Reef Secrets was also mentioned to me, but the store I went to was out of it. I'll go look. I've asked in some of the stores and some stores seemed to stock mostly 'dictionaries' and not really explainatory things (or some were just too... complicated... meaning it seems like I need a PhD.). I thought I would read up on the internet instead, but I'll sport for a good book. I've been to 4 different stores in the past 4 days and maybe I've spoken with weird people but one guy told things like that I should bleach my 'dead'rock before I plan to rejuvenate it. The next person said, "Absolutely not!". (But then again, I thought supergluing corals was absurd). One told me to scrub the old rock clean, and another told me not to touch it because there's already a good 'base' (of Calcium?) from when it was alive. So even with speaking to people I'm a little confused. I've been nothing but extremely humble... because I don't know a lot, but the more I ask questions, the more options seem to pop out.

Here's what I do know...
I haven't bought anything but a tank at this point... there was a reason for that... (and I hope I don't change)... I didn't want to get sidetracked towards going bigger. I know that's a little strange, but it works for me... and I've been tempted, believe me. I really wanted to do a DIY project and build a stand/hood but I think I'm going to run out of time (school starts in a few weeks and then I'm super-crazy busy for about a month- until things settle)... so I'm thinking not a good project and am looking (wife advising) on likes of this furnature. The 'rush' was to get dimensions so that a sump could be considered. The only REAL THING THAT I KNOW FOR SURE is that I do want to IMMEDIATELY start cycling my (deadrock) with liverock meaning I need lights ASAP (along with some flow). I'm hoping that by adding about 50lbs of live rock (and perhaps sand) to my 45lbs of dead(live)rock, the rock will have a good head start by mid-September. Along with water changes and test (still have them from when I was in the hobby a year ago) I've been told to start with at LEAST 1lb of rock/gal (1.5x was recommended... and goal is at least 2x when things start going) and although I don't expect the 50LR + 40Dead to have completely created all bacteria in 2 months, I think it may be a good start point. I've got patience after that. I'm afraid the 4th step of planning my tank is a macro view right now... meaning I think I'm thinking of what my (I was assuming before, but now its this) 21-ish gallon previous tank had... I had a few fish, a bunch of live rock, with CF's, 2 skilters, and a powerhead and critters. It was mindless actually but I really enjoyed it. Just liked looking at the water and some crabs walking around on the rocks even. For almost a year at the end I started with some softies (GSP, mushrooms, 'buttons")corals, and enjoyed watching them propogate. It was like a new hobby after 2 years of rock, critters, and few fish, but I was buying everything from a store paying big prices... I couldn't afford a lot often... I added 1 new coral/mushroom about every 4-5 months.

I never could have big fish with the old tank, and now this 63 seems like I've moved from a studio apartment to a mansion. I'm thinking that I would still like to maybe try challenging things down the road, but I want to have what I had before... rocks, critters, some corals, and few fish. Everyone's saying you'll want to go bigger, and they could be right, but I'm pretty simple and I don't see it happening for a couple of years at the least. I do want to (at this time) be prepared to go there, by overaccomodating a little (I can't find the right word for this... like planning a 10x turnover rate when 6x was recommended or something... just using numbers...). I like the idea of a sump/refugium... mostly because of the water level (skimming the top... that was an eyesore to me with my other tank occasionally), and for hiding the equiptment. This IS going to be a main focal point of our livingroom (opposed to the 21 that was in a corner)

Jeepers... thanks for the information! I think you're the 4th or 5th to verify some good information on T5's and that's what I needed to hear. (I'm sorry, but I don't think I should go with just 1 or 2). I was toying with going halides because as some say "It's the best", but I think they're way out of my league and I wouldn't really get the benefit from them for an estimated few years. And you can always add/change later right? I've done CF's so I was comfortable, but off the bat, some advised me against it. I'm planning on T5's, and will go with CF's if there's a screaming deal. Here's a question... could I go with flouescents (meaning enough to power my tank) and use a single halide as an occasional use (I like the glistening effect... but I only want it when I'm actually there watching it)?

Whew... okay... note to self... slow down... (am I still going too fast?)
 
That's hilarious Kentanner! But so true! I was in a store... helped by one person for about 30 minutes... on my way to the car... but turned around to look at a price when another salesperson started talking to me. I ended spending another 45 because he just about told me every single thing that the other guy said was not necessarily wrong, but ABSOLUTELY NOT the way he would do it. That was the 1st experience that I had (before joining RC- but I (was told) expected some dissention at RC).
 
Hey about your question of the Ocassional MH, I dont think that is possible because your corals will be used to the fl, and not the MH, so you will end up bleaching them and it wouldnt be the best for the MH either, like in the morining I want to look at it for 20min. so turn it on, then turn it off, you will be turning this thing on and off like crazy, which I think wears out the bulbs and ballast.
 
It is not drilled at this time... (it's acryllic) but I was considering... and with that... where and why questions start to fill up my brain... I'm leaining towards it...

Shoot... I was hoping it would be like... giving your pet a treat every now and then... The problem is that I will be looking at the tank every day, however there are some (days at a time) weeks that I won't get to sit and REALLY look at it (but maybe 10 minutes before passing out), and other day (weekends mostly) that I would like to really showcase it (have a MH on) where I have time to really look at it. I think the MH will be overkill (and hotter... straining the AC and a chiller... but mostly my pocketbook) over time. I couldn't use the MH on the weekends and the flouescents during the week?
 
You will end up bleaching/killing your corals, its like you living in your house with NO windows open and just your lights, and then on the weekends going outside all day. It will shock your fish cause of the added heat.
Acryllic is much easier to drill.
So heres what I think you should do: Come up with a list of fish/coral inverts that you would like to have in your tank.
From that we can tell you what kindof lights, filtration, etc.
 
when I get home tonight I will link you to a tank in our club. his tank is a little over 600 gallons and amazing to look at (he also has the PhD you think you need for this hobby ha-ha). he only uses T5s and grows all types of corals. I really don't care what you get but I let people talk me into MH and I would have been happier with just T5s lol.
 
Wow. Jeepers... Now why do you have to go and show me that for! :) And yes, I guess he does actually have a PhD! Where do you instruct Psychology?

Kentanner, I'll start writing some things down when I go to the LFS, because I don't really know where this hobby will take me. From my last tank, I really enjoyed watching:

Corals
Experience with-
Green Star Polyps (I think... I had a really flourescent green style) propagate (sp? too lazy to check), I had mushrooms which weren't extremely exciting, but I thought they added a lot, a featherduster (one was nice to add interest), and some buttons (I think they're called that).
Wants-
I really enjoyed seeing the pulsing xenia and I really want those.

For the most part, everything that is in the lower lighting tanks at the LFS' look great to me. There's a couple of things in the halide lit tanks at the LFS that interest me, but couldn't I just put it up a little higher in the tank if I wanted to dabble? I think I just want a lot of variety and that doesn't have to necessarily include the halide lit things because there's enough of the lower lighting needs corals. I actually like the swaying (moving) corals a lot. What do you (or anyone else) recommend of things that (they) I should have that are interesting (must haves for them)? (No, I'm not trying to be unoriginal... I just want to go and make sure I make a note of them when I go and check it out).

Fish- I'd like some, but nothing really jumps out... I just want a little (and I actually think I can follow a little) for everyone. Some top swimmers, some mid-level swimmers, and what I like the most... the skittish hiders.

I know it sounds a little funny, but I really just liked watching corals spread around, and mostly watching the critters (hermits, snails, stars) run around. For instance, I REALLY want this crab I once saw that picks up things that he finds around the tank and somehow attaches it to himself to hide. My wife and I are doing it together. She likes the fish, but she agrees that critters are pretty cool. I'd like a jawfish for sure. Saw a batfish today... if it is reef safe, I'd consider. If I like the fish, I'd like a little out of the ordinary but not necessarily exotic.

Does this make sense?
Recommendations for Lighting??? (Jeeperrs' thread was AaaaaMAZING with only T5's)
Filtration???- Again, I think (pretty sure) we can keep it within (most likely under) reason in the fish category.

Anyways, I'll heed your advice and start making some notes Kentanner! I just listed things above to give you a peek insight. I just like watching some things grow and pop up here and there. Thanks for your help!
 
Im not totally for sure, but I think you could get buy with T-8, or so, But I havent learned all my corals and their needs yet.
Others will have to chime in.

I love the swaying (moving) corals too!!!
Filtration: A sump with a fuge would be best, but....
 
For filtration I think you should have a skimmer and something for carbon. If you want to run a sump you can put your carbon in the sump. If you don't want to run a sump you can run a hang-on or canister filter. I think carbon is great idea in conjunction with your skimmer. Some say you don't need carbon. They may be totally right that you don't need it but I like the extra filtration :) Since money is an issue I would buy the best skimmer you can find for a good price and then get something that is cheap for the carbon. Again, if you have a sump you can run your carbon in that.

I can't tell you what fish to get though. Fish is something that you have to find what you like most. After you figure out what you want REALLY REALLY bad, then look to see what can live with it ha-ha. I want mandarin fish REALLY REALLY bad so I have made sure to pick only fish that will live well with the mandarin so there will be minimal problems when I add it.

The corals you listed are on the easier side. I think you will be able to do all of those. The only issue with them is that you will have to trim them back when they start to get to large. Xenia is really bad about taking over a tank. You are correct in how to place the high light demand corals. If you have a coral that needs a lot of light then you will want to place them up higher in the tank. I am having to do this as I upgrade my 75 to a 120. Ok, I think I have wrote enough :)
 
Good things happen slow,
bad things happen when we rush.
Patience will take you farther than the buck many times.
and finally, someone once commented in a LFS that,

The only thing two reef keepers can agree on is what the third one is doing wrong.
AMEN.
 
Buy a skimmer that is suited for a tank 2x the size you will use it on.
Then, Don't run carbon constantly.
It pulls out some beneficials along with smell, color, and toxins,
But
remember that nothing is out of your "system" untill the carbon is changed.
Use it for 2-5 day spurts
It will last longer, your supps will last longer, you'll get better results, and guess what,
mo money-mo money, mo money.... for buffer.. hehehe
It is just like a sponge.
It is only as usefull as the pores it has available.
Cloggy cloggerton..
 
Run a good 20x to 30 or 40 X turnover, depending on tank size.
Flow is your friend much more so than any mechanical filtration or media with the possible exception of Po4 remover.
Recirc those food stuffs untill they become food or skimmer fodder.
hehe

pump up the volume and watch those corals and fish "dance,Dance' bump,bump,ba.
bumpbump, bababa..uh,uh ooooohhhh..
 
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