Dosing Vinegar

Kataro

New member
Hi, I've been dosing vodka for a good 3-4 months now. I've been getting some good ol' Cyano on my sandbed and rock despites the high flow in my tank. I am dosing only 1.5ml of Vodka 80% proof to my 150G, and dosing Reef-Actif on the tank.

I've read that vinegar to replace the vodka might help elimnate my cyano problem. My question is, is there anything I need to mix w/ the vinegar (like kalk)? Or can I just dose Vinegar 4-8x the amount of vodka I'm currently dosing straight from the bottle to my tank
 
Im confused . Im dosing 8 ml in my 125 and i have yet to get a outbreak. ARE you sure the vodka is causing it ?
 
That's the only thing I can think that contribute it. My MH light is only 7-8 months old, each run at 6 hours a day. NO3 and PO4 is 0, waterflow is by 2 MP40w at full power. I have GAC and GFO reactor, big skimmer.

Oh, I forgot, I used to dose 2.5ml. But decreased to 1.5ml over the past 2 weeks
 
Vinegar can be used to replace vodka, at an 8:1 ratio to maintain the same carbon dose. It might help with the cyanobacteria. I'd consider trying it, although I'd ramp up the vinegar slowly.
 
gotcha, so I can just stopped the vodka completely and dose 12ml of Vinegar to replace my 1.5ml of vodka. Nothing special need to be done to the vinegar before dosing?
 
Kataro, if you are using 40% ethanol (vodka) and then switch to vinegar (5%) it is roughly 8x the amount needed. So you would need 8-12mL of vinegar.

MH spectral shifts have been blamed for cyano in the past. Usually this becomes noticeable after a short period of time (6 months).
 
I think if you switched to vinegar and still had the issue you may have to stop completely before ruling out the additives as the problem. Then if after stopping your cyano does not lessen then I would change out the bulbs.
 
I actually had my doubt about the vodka since I forgot to dose for 2 day about a week ago and saw a decrease in the cyanobacteria on the sandbed that day.

MH bulb change every 9-12 months right?
 
That depends on the brand and model, apparently, but that's not a bad guess. A light meter might be helpful, if you like toys. :)
 
Only been 1 day since I dosed Vinegar. A week since I started dosing MB7, but I awake to a pleasant sight =) The cursed cyano is dying! Places where I use to have thick mats of em are vanishing leaving only small blotches behind the sandbed starting to look cleaner salready!

Hopefully the rest of this cursed bacteria will follow suit within a couple of days
 
That's what is working for me. I'm dosing a 3 to 1 ratio of vodka and vinegar with a very small dose of MB7. I dose .75ml vodka and 2ml vinegar along with 1 drop per day of MB7 on my 90g. The cyano is all but gone after roughly 2 weeks.
 
Vinegar can be used to replace vodka, at an 8:1 ratio to maintain the same carbon dose. It might help with the cyanobacteria. I'd consider trying it, although I'd ramp up the vinegar slowly.

Just to avoid mistake, i now dose 1.5 ml/day of vodka for a 120 gal., having cyano on my sandbed so if i want to switch to vinegar how should i do it ?
Thanks!
 
I'm curious about the differences/benefits of dosing vodka instead of vinegar.

I add Vinegar to my ATO/Kalk to both increase free calcium and provide a carbon source (it can also reduce the pH of kalk in higher concentrations.) Since this method provides multiple benefits (assuming the need for supplemental calcium), and is easily automated through ATO, can anyone explain why Vodka dosing would be preferred over vinegar (other then the 1:8 concentration.)
 
If you search acetate use for increasing bacterial populations to reduce nitrate, you will find that it is quite effect for this purpose in both aerobic and anaerobic environments. Much of the research is completed using waste water (fresh water), but there is a lot regarding marine water. Vinegar brakes down quickly into acetate. I have not seen research completed using ethanol. Most is completed using methanol since it is cheaper. Methanol works fine for aerobic purposes. In freshwater anaerobic environments alcohol seems to inhibit many bacteria from growing, at least in one paper I read, which I can't find again.

If alcohol inhibits saltwater anaerobic bacterial growth as is suggested in the article noted above performed in freshwater, then this may account for why cyanobacteria are more of a problem while using vodka.

Keep in mind, that when bacteria masses form biofilms, these biofilms contain both aerobic and anaerobic bacteria which work together to reduce nitrate & phosphate in a reef aquarium. Studies on how bacterial biofilms work is enlightening in that it does not take much of a biofilm to retain anaerobic bacteria. Given this information, I would expect that all sand beds shallow or deep contain lots of anaerobic bacteria as well as live rock.

FWIW, anaerobic bacteria are in general more effective at reducing the nitrate and phosphate IMHO. This is why that I speculated cyano bacteria form on live rock and sand beds, since without dosing a carbon source, the sand beds and live rock don't seem to handle much of a nitrate and phosphate load. ;)

Studies have shown that sand beds will add to the nitrate in aquariums without adding carbon sources. Once you add carbon sources to the sand beds, then they can keep up with the nitrate load, especially in tanks with lots of fish. The solid carbon polymers recently arrived on the scene, seem to do a good job in sand beds as well as vinegar according to the research.
 
Just to avoid mistake, i now dose 1.5 ml/day of vodka for a 120 gal., having cyano on my sandbed so if i want to switch to vinegar how should i do it ?
Thanks!

To convert to vinegar you multiply the vodka amount by 8:

1.5 X 8 = 12 ml of vinegar.

IME 12 ml of vinegar per day is not much for your size system. You could start with this amount of vinegar or use a 50/50 mix and work your way up slowly to be safe.
 
Your both welcome. ;)

FWIW, Randy uses vinegar and vodka. He finds the vinegar is better at reducing cyano as well.

Also, the conversion factor of 8 is based on total carbon content. So this may not be completely relevant when dosing the vinegar. The final acetate content may be the biggest factor when using vinegar. If we are actually dosing vinegar based on acetate content, then this means you will have to observe your tank occupants and particularly the algae growth on your glass. I based my dosing requirement on the algae growth on the glass for vinegar which seemed to work well. I found when dosing vinegar that at first you get algae growth, then this eventually went to bacterial growth on the glass with much less algae growth. Overdosing IMHO, lead to too much bacterial growth on the glass which is a bit arbitrary, but notifies you when you are at the appropriate dose. After that it may depend on cyano growth if you have this problem. You would slowly increase the vinegar amount until the cyano disappeared. If you see bacterial blooms in the water column or masses of bacteria forming in your tank, then you are overdosing. ;)

In general, IMHO, vinegar dosing is much more forgiving. :)
 
Back
Top