Double whammy

phurst

phurst

Richmond Reefer
Noticed several colonies had been closed for several days in my 55 all zoa tank. I investigated last night after lights out and I have copious amounts of zoa eating nudis AND zoa eating spiders :(

I suppose I'll have to break the tank down and dip/QT all my zoas. Unfortunately most of them are growing directly on the rock, so I guess there will be a fragging marathon. I know some people have treated whole tanks for nudis with Salifert FWE, but I know of no such treatment for zoa spiders. Anyone have any alternate solutions before I start making plans?
 
Corris Wrasse?

Those should work on both types of problems... at least from what has been posted here. Never had either in my tank.
 
My friend, I don't know what the life cycle of the spiders and Nudis would be but to guess I would run the tank clean of polyps for at least 6 weeks if not more. To starve all those predators out.

You can try running Interceptor in the tank to try to take out the spiders. I figure since they are invertabrates of sort this should take them out with higher dosages? Like red bugs and such. You can probably do FWE in higher dosages for Nudis as well. I just don't know what HAVOC this would do though to your tanks SYSTEM and NATURAL elements. I hope you get what I'm trying to get at here. Busy at work and can't seem to think straight at the moment.

Manual removal is best at this point though.

Charles-
 
I've used both FWE and Interceptor in the past with no ill effects besides an overflowing skimmer :) but i see what you're saying. Anyone confirm the Interceptor and zoa spiders? I'll have to find a way to yank out my pistol shrimp and peppermints, but I'd do it if I knew the Interceptor would work.
 
Killing the Spiders

Killing the Spiders

I have a friend that had the spiders and ran extensive tests with everything that he could think of to figure out what would kill them that was also tank safe. What he came up with was the Red Slime Remover product! Not sure what brand? Yep, my understanding is that product zaps the oxygen out of the water and that killed the spiders and not the Zoas. I know that he just left the stuff in and by the next day they were all D-E-A-D DEAD. That was 6 months ago and they didn't come back.:D
 
For Clarification: My friend took all of his Zoa rocks out of his main system and applied the Red Slime Remover treatment within his quarantine system.
 
I guess that treatment would also be hazzardous to other tank inhabitants.

You can do the same thing by just dumping a 2 liter or 2 of carbonated water to shock the hell out of off the inverts in the tank but that's just too much IMO.
 
I think the spiders reproductive cycle is pretty long. My understanding is that the male carries the babies after they mate with the females and then leave those young to fend for themselves after a few weeks. You would have to find a predator that hunts at night to eat the spiders, not really sure of one that does that save some butterflies? I would really be curious to see if interceptor kills them. That would be an interesting test.
 
I'd be interested as well. I have ready access to Interceptor, I would just need a place to keep my pistol, coral banded, peppermints and hermits. I'd rather not go to the trouble without having a solid answer.

Of course breaking the damn tank down is trouble too :)
 
The palatable once-a-month tablet that prevents heartworm disease and removes adult roundworms (Toxocara cati) and hookworms (Ancylostoma tubaeforme) in cats and kittens. Caution
U.S. Federal law restricts this drug to use by or on the order of a licensed veterinarian.


Description
INTERCEPTOR Flavor Tabs for Cats are available in three tablet sizes in color-coded packages for oral administration to cats and kittens. Each tablet is formulated to provide a minimum of 0.9 mg/lb (2.0 mg/kg) body weight of milbemycin oxime. Milbemycin oxime consists of the oxime derivatives of 5-didehydromilbemycins in the ratio of approximately 80% A4 (C32H45NO7, MW 555.71) and 20% A3 (C31H43NO7, MW 541.68).


Indications
INTERCEPTOR Flavor Tabs for Cats are indicated for use in the prevention of heartworm disease caused by Dirofilaria immitis, and the removal of adult Ancylostoma tubaeforme (hookworm) and Toxocara cati (roundworm) in cats and kittens six weeks of age or greater and 1.5 lbs. body weight or greater.

Dosage
INTERCEPTOR Flavor Tabs for Cats are given orally, once a month, at the recommended minimum dosage rate of 0.9 mg milbemycin oxime per pound of body weight (2.0 mg/kg).

Administration
INTERCEPTOR Flavor Tabs for Cats are palatable and may be offered by the owner as a treat. As an alternative, the tablet may be offered in food or administered as other tablet medications. The tablets can be broken for ease of administration. Watch the cat closely following dosing to be sure the entire dose has been consumed. If it is not entirely consumed, redose once with the full recommended dose as soon as possible.

INTERCEPTOR Flavor Tabs for Cats must be administered monthly, preferably on the same date each month. The first dose should be administered within one month of the cat's first exposure to mosquitoes and monthly thereafter until the end of the mosquito season. If a dose is missed and a 30-day interval between dosing is exceeded, administer INTERCEPTOR Flavor Tabs for Cats immediately and resume the monthly dosing schedule. It is recommended that cats be tested for existing heartworm infection prior to starting treatment with INTERCEPTOR Flavor Tabs for Cats. (See Precautions.)

Palatability
Palatability trials conducted in 72 cats demonstrated that INTERCEPTOR Flavor Tabs for Cats were successfully dosed by the owner when they either offered the tablet as a treat, placed the tablet in the cat's mouth or placed the tablet in the cat's food in 72% of cats. About 16% of the cats were manually dosed and 13% of the cats were not successfully dosed according to the protocol.

Precautions
Do not use in kittens less than six weeks of age or less than 1.5 lbs. body weight. Safety in heartworm-positive cats has not been established. Safety in breeding, pregnant and lactating queens, and breeding toms has not been established.

Efficacy
INTERCEPTOR Flavor Tabs for Cats eliminate the tissue stage of heartworm larvae and hookworm (Ancylostoma tubaeforme) and roundworm (Toxocara cati) infections when administered orally according to the recommended dosage schedule. The anthelmintic activity of milbemycin oxime is believed to be a result of interference with invertebrate neurotransmission.

Safety
INTERCEPTOR Flavor Tabs for Cats has been tested safely in over 8 different breeds of cats. In well-controlled clinical field studies 141 cats completed treatment with milbemycin oxime. Milbemycin oxime was used safely in animals receiving frequently used veterinary products such as vaccines, anthelmintics, anesthetics, antibiotics, steroids, flea collars, shampoos and dips.

Safety studies were conducted in young cats and kittens and doses of 1X, 3X and 5X the minimum recommended dose of 2.0 mg/kg demonstrated no drug-related effects. Tolerability studies at exaggerated
 
There is a ton of contradictory info out there on the evil creatures that eat our zoas, but the spiders tend to have the worst. In the first thread you link to there is a paper that was done that links the life stage of the spider to the male rearing the babies and then releasing them. Im not sure that the spiders actuall lay the young in the zoanthid, but you can only hope they dont. That is why Im not sure that interceptor will work.
 
I still believe that in a certain amount of interceptor, that should be able to kill off the spiders. I just don't know the extent or amount needed nor the ILL EFFECTS it would cause to the tank, the natural bacteria and others.

Which is why I keep a lot of wrasses, these guys pick through all my polyps and new ones coming in. I have NEVER ( KNOCK ON WOOD ) ever in my polyp keeping delt with spiders or other predators as most , don't make it through the gauntlet or wrasses hunting in the tank.
 
well...if you are as infested as you say.........and assuming you have lots of polyps which I believe you do...........I would suggest not even screwing around with trying to kind of remedying the issue and taking an unknown amount of time to do it in.

Set up another tank, maybe with a small QT tank thrown in between.

Start taking colonies out one by one, and manually go over each colony with a fine tooth comb and dips. however you get it done, make it mandatory that nothing goes into the new tank unless you are 100% positive it is clean. Once all of the polyps are out of your main display I would wait 3 months to return anything.

dont ever let it happen again

Not everyone has the means to accomplish something like this, but if you do that is how it should be done IMO.

If you lived closer i would do it for you as I already have the set up to accomplish something liek this. It would of course cost you a little of everything I like.

I think no matter how many colonies you have you could successfully be past this issue in a couple of weeks, not counting the wait time to make sure they have all died off.

just soemthing to consider
 
Bleh, I know you're right, I just don't want to accept it :)

I'll have a 40B available in a week or so, so I guess that's the ultimate solution. I'll probably try the FWE and a wrasse to try to keep things in check until then. I do dip, but nudi eggs can survive a dip. I guess it's finaly time for a propper QT setup.
 
I can feel your pain Phurst, breaking down and such is BACK breaking work. I've done that to a 55,100, 37 and a 20... NOT fun for your back and TIME.
 
My friend Tracy used Interceptor first and it didn't work on the spiders so he upped the dosage and they still recovered after being comatose for a while. I gave you the answer that he discovered, its the Red Slime Remover. Who cares what other little creatures that it kills as long as it all occurs in the quarantine system and it doesn't harm the Zoas or other corals.
 
And I'd be willing to give it a shot if litteraly every rock in my tank wouldn't have to go into QT.
 
so what brand of red slime remover, that would be most helpful for some type of protocol. It might also help for future outbreaks for other people.
 
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