Dr. Tim's?

[apache73]

Hey Guys,

I've towed a thread over from R2R because quite frankly I am getting useless banter (more opinions than empirical experiences) with regards to using the Dr. Tim's cycling products (bacteria + the ammonia catalyst).

I am not having much success with jump starting my cycling using this process and the product website's recommended procedures. Example: 9 days into the process and ZERO nitrites being detected.

Should abandon this and maybe try the Fritz product?

Not interested in the old school process of taking a month or two cycling by tossing in a shrimp and marking it on a calendar. I have my own thoughts on what's really going on here versus the tribal lore that surrounds this process.

Cheers,
G

 

[Reefing102]

@brandon429 and @Dr. Reef may have some insight but I guess a question.

Are you detecting ammonia or nitrate?

Nitrite itself isn’t generally considered toxic (see: https://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.php) but that doesn’t mean it should necessarily be disregarded as part of the cycle.

My understanding from @brandon429 and @Dr. Reef (cycling and bottled bacteria threads I’ve read respectively) generally with Bottled Bacteria, the tank should be fully cycled for fish by about day 10 regardless of what a test kit is showing.

 

[Dr. Reef]

So the study i did over couple of years on bottle bacteria, Dr Tim was 2nd on the ranking with Fritz Turbostart 900 as being number 1.
Anyways all these bottle bacteria not like the old school cycling, You are to dose bacteria and add couple of small fish to it.
Thats what we do, we bleach our systems periodically and after drying and cleaning we just simply fill them with saltwater and dose Fritz turbostart 900 3 times the recommended quantity and add few fish to it.
If you start chasing ammonia and nitrites/nitrates etc it wont work like that.
All these bacteria need carbon source, alkalinity to continue to work and populate. and it works faster and better if bacteria is fresh and salinity is a bit low like 1.015-17.

 

[Dr. Reef]

Thread 'Bacteria in a bottle, Myth or Fact'

Sep 11, 2024

Call me old school, back in the day we placed a deli shrimp in a tank to kick start the cycle. When tank reached 1.5-2 ppm ammonia we pulled it out and waited sometimes weeks to months for bacteria to colonize and drop ammonia and nitrites down to 0 to make tank safe for livestock.
With recent research and technology which is still growing, there are some companies out there that claim No new tank syndrome, fast cycle or instant cycle.
Personally i dont think such bacteria can survive manufacturing process, trucking, shipping, warehousing. rotation, non proper storage and variant...

• Dr. Reef
• Replies: 3
• Forum: Reef Discussion

 

[apache73]

@brandon429 and @Dr. Reef may have some insight but I guess a question.

Are you detecting ammonia or nitrate?

Nitrite itself isn’t generally considered toxic (see: https://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.php) but that doesn’t mean it should necessarily be disregarded as part of the cycle.

My understanding from @brandon429 and @Dr. Reef (cycling and bottled bacteria threads I’ve read respectively) generally with Bottled Bacteria, the tank should be fully cycled for fish by about day 10 regardless of what a test kit is showing.

Yes, there's ammonia being detected. I added the ammonia chloride via instructions and user tips.

 

[brandon429]

If I had to choose one activity here that would cycle this tank in question, assuming it's not already cycled as a worst scenario, given what's mentioned-- it would be to add a pinch of fish food ground up into the system + 7 days wait.


Wait seven more days doing nothing just letting it stew with carbon and phosphorus + vitamins as ground food matter, what it's lacking in a worst case scenario it will not lack by then. with this mixture and time scale already in place It's a guaranteed win.

You then do a full or large water change to remove all the waste matter so you don't start shining light on dirty water=algae

When clean water is back in the tank it'll be over a veneer of cycled surfaces. That's clean top water, cycled surfaces, it's ready for bioload without testing verification.


Disease preps are more important

Once cycled, how are you going to avoid the classic early fish Wipeout by month eight

This initial feeding boosts bacteria that do control ammonia but aren't part of the majority long term adapted bacteria for the filter system. They exchange out over time and with no consequences. Starts with a working filter, alternates generations into another form of working filter over time, all without any testing needed. Can't fail, won't fall a seneye audit that's for sure.

 

[brandon429]

You're well cycled by now

Any method you used: timeline = dunzo. You're stocked and rocking right?

Updated cycling science is knowing are done merely off the number of days running with food and inoculant. No doubt submerged surface area = active

Even if you put in 3x normal ammonia and let it sit uncleared the whole time: a full water change leaves a veneer of filter bacteria and then the clean water back on top is a proper loading for them. They didn't die, they grew in ability sitting in the wastewater, worse case scenario. Clean water back in = can carry a full bioload

Your limiter to adding fish isn't bioload carry

It's disease and behavioral regulation in the fish you add that controls rate of input. The cycle will handle anything you throw at it. Cycle = closed and done. Even if your bottle of bacteria was totally dead, this is enough time for feed- only cycling using natural complement bacteria

The only way you could be stalled is if you added no bacteria and no feed and only had dry surfaces and clean saltwater. That mode would take much longer.