Drain Pipe Depth in Sump

[ProudSoonersFan]

I'm a little curious about the design of my sump, particularly the drain. I have a 55 gallon aquarium with a Glass-Holes kit for 1500 GPH (yeah a little more than I needed but oh well). I made a sump/refugium out of a 20 gallon long aquarium with a skimmer section, followed by a refugium section, then a return. One of the things that I noticed about how I originally designed the drain was the depth of the pipe going into the skimmer section (I have 8 inches of depth). I've seen some sumps where the drain pipes are within a few inches of the bottom. That seems like a pretty good design to me to make sure that the drain water can get skimmed before going through the baffles (over-under-over) to the refugium section. I suppose I just want to make sure I don't get a flood. The Glass-Holes kit has FLUSH tubes for air assist but I don't know what affect that will have on back pressure. I had it all set up in the garage testing the whole setup but with the drain not submerged at all and I'm ready to bring it inside and put it all together after taking it all apart. My question is: Does it matter how far down the drain pipe is in the sump? Will it flood assuming that the pump is rated for less GPH (775 GPH max) than the overflow box?

 

[coralsnaked]

. My question is: Does it matter how far down the drain pipe is in the sump? Will it flood assuming that the pump is rated for less GPH (775 GPH max) than the overflow box?[/QUOTE]


The depth of the drain line into the sump has no affect on whether the sump will flood. There are other variables which will create a flooding situation though. Sump design where there is too much restriction on the under part of the O.U.O. Or more likely in the back flow when the pump is turned off.

Most peope who flood their sumps do not take into account the siphoning back flow from the display accellerater back thru the return pump. There are a few things one must do to prevent this problem. One install a back flow preventor or a check valve. But do not depend on this mechanical device entirely as they do sometimes fail. Make sure your return accellerater is not so low in the tank that back siphomning will allow more water to return to the sump than it can handle. And / or drill a siphon break in the acceleratror just 1/2 inch or so below the water level to prevent the water from back siphoning past this point.

 

[anthonyvyeda]

nice, also if you bought a overflow kit it should be pre drilled. I keep my drain from my tank to my sump about 1 inch off the ground.

 

[ProudSoonersFan]

nice, also if you bought a overflow kit it should be pre drilled. I keep my drain from my tank to my sump about 1 inch off the ground.

This sounds like what I want to do...create turnover of water inside the skimmer section so tank water isn't flowing directly into the refugium section. But, with this design, should I expect lots of noise?

 

[billdogg]

You can avoid most or all of the noise in the sump by putting a "T" fitting on the drain with the leg portion sticking out above the normal water level. This will allow the air that is in the drain to escape before it actually gets to the sump. I went so far as to put a short extension on mine to help minimize salt splash.

 

[ProudSoonersFan]

You can avoid most or all of the noise in the sump by putting a "T" fitting on the drain with the leg portion sticking out above the normal water level. This will allow the air that is in the drain to escape before it actually gets to the sump. I went so far as to put a short extension on mine to help minimize salt splash.

Is yours like this attachment?

 

[Kdawg_69]

if your drains terminate just 1" below the water line in the sump that is all you will need and that will eliminate most noise from the system just make sure you have enough spare room in the sump for a power outage back drain of the main display into the sump and you'll be fine

 

[ProudSoonersFan]

if your drains terminate just 1" below the water line in the sump that is all you will need and that will eliminate most noise from the system just make sure you have enough spare room in the sump for a power outage back drain of the main display into the sump and you'll be fine

I guess I need to do another test with this design. The 20 gallon long aquarium is 12 in high with 8 in tall baffles. The returns have siphon breaks in them and is still a good 3 inches from the top.

 

[wbrinker]

Does this impact the Herbie drain suction at all?

 

[ProudSoonersFan]

I guess I need to restate my question as my original concern with flooding is a non-issue (because I drilled siphon break holes in the return). With the Glass Holes kit, it comes with FLUSH tubes for air assist. With that said, are there any negative side effects to submerging the drain pipes down into the sump (i.e. 2 or 3 inches from the bottom of the sump)?

 

[Reeftown]

I'm a little curious about the design of my sump, particularly the drain. I have a 55 gallon aquarium with a Glass-Holes kit for 1500 GPH (yeah a little more than I needed but oh well). I made a sump/refugium out of a 20 gallon long aquarium with a skimmer section, followed by a refugium section, then a return. One of the things that I noticed about how I originally designed the drain was the depth of the pipe going into the skimmer section (I have 8 inches of depth). I've seen some sumps where the drain pipes are within a few inches of the bottom. That seems like a pretty good design to me to make sure that the drain water can get skimmed before going through the baffles (over-under-over) to the refugium section. I suppose I just want to make sure I don't get a flood. The Glass-Holes kit has FLUSH tubes for air assist but I don't know what affect that will have on back pressure. I had it all set up in the garage testing the whole setup but with the drain not submerged at all and I'm ready to bring it inside and put it all together after taking it all apart. My question is: Does it matter how far down the drain pipe is in the sump? Will it flood assuming that the pump is rated for less GPH (775 GPH max) than the overflow box?

I have the same exact size setup (just rinsed out my old 20 gallon long tank that hasn't been used in ages and plan on making it into a sump for my 55 gallon).

If you could post some pictures of your setup, I would be eternally greatful, as I have no idea of what to do when setting this up.
What other equipment do you have as well? I know I will have to get rid of my hob skimmer because I don't think it'll fit on a 12inch high tank, but I know I will some sort of hob something to get water down to the sump, and an appropriately sized return pump as well.

 

[twistedfinn967]

I'm running the same kit into the same sized sump, only difference is my dt is 75g. As long as your down leg (s) are an inch or better below the top of the baffle you should be fine. You could always email GH's and ask their opinion. The are really good about that stuff.

 

[ProudSoonersFan]

I'm running the same kit into the same sized sump, only difference is my dt is 75g. As long as your down leg (s) are an inch or better below the top of the baffle you should be fine. You could always email GH's and ask their opinion. The are really good about that stuff.

There's one little detail I left out. I plan on using filter socks. With that in mind, will 1 inch below the surface cause a decent amount of turnover in the skimmer section (which is about 13" W x 7" L x 8" H) to where that water is going mostly through the O.U.O. baffles?

twistedfinn967, I think I will contact GH.

Reeftown, pics coming tonight.

 

[jerpa]

If you are using filter socks you won't want them too deep or changing them often will be difficult. The depth of the drain line won't effect a mixed air/water drain, which is what you have. A siphon system requires it to terminate just below the water line. Bubbles popping on the surface will create salt creep no matter how deep the drain is. Splashing shouldn't be a problem as long as they are submerged an inch or more.

 

[ProudSoonersFan]

I have the same exact size setup (just rinsed out my old 20 gallon long tank that hasn't been used in ages and plan on making it into a sump for my 55 gallon).

If you could post some pictures of your setup, I would be eternally greatful, as I have no idea of what to do when setting this up.
What other equipment do you have as well? I know I will have to get rid of my hob skimmer because I don't think it'll fit on a 12inch high tank, but I know I will some sort of hob something to get water down to the sump, and an appropriately sized return pump as well.

Reeftown, I don't know if modeling after my setup is necessarily wise due to all my beginner mistakes, especially with the plumbing and the refugium design. With that said, attached are pictures. The problem I had is barely enough room in the skimmer section with an in sump skimmer. I made it just big enough to fit the skimmer (as per this website). If I had it to do all over again, I would have gotten a 30 standard size aquarium and utilized the extra 6 inches in length just for the return water, then into the skimmer section, followed by refugium, and then return. But, it's the setup I have and I found a way to make it work...well, let's hope so. Anyway, for equipment, I have a Reef Octopus NWB110 in sump skimmer, Maxi-Jet 300 return pump (up to 775 GPH max at 0 head), and 2 Eheim Jager TruTemp 100 heaters that will go in the sump. The overflow box is a Glass-Holes 1500 and I had to drill two holes in the back of the aquarium for it. The stand has been a months in the making and I just go done with building it. That's the major short list of items I have. Oh, and my sump design is here. I hope this helps.

I'm running the same kit into the same sized sump, only difference is my dt is 75g. As long as your down leg (s) are an inch or better below the top of the baffle you should be fine. You could always email GH's and ask their opinion. The are really good about that stuff.

twistedfin967, I received a reply to my email I sent to Glass-Holes. The short version of is that they recommend running the pipes to within a couple of inches of the bottom of the sump.

Question concerning the 1500 kit. I have a 55 gallon aquarium that I installed it on and I really like it. I'm running the two drain pipes to my 20 gallon refugium below. My question is: Does it matter how far below the surface the pipes extend to as far as performance or noise? I ask because I want to make sure that I have adequate turnover in my skimmer section and to make sure that the drain water doesn't go through the over-under-over baffle into the refugium section. I plan on using a filter sock to catch debris so I don't know if that will hinder performance. I want to make sure it has the opportunity to get skimmed before going to the refugium. If it helps, I am using a pump that is capable of up to 750 GPH but I suspect that is actually closer to around 400 to 450 through the piping. Thanks!

Thank you for your order.
The pipes need to be at least an inch or two off the bottom, but it usually doesn't make a performance after that. Going through a sock should greatly reduce bubble issues, and with regular cleaning won't affect performance. At your low flow rate, you really shouldn't have any problems.

Best Fishes,
Mike Kirkman
Senior Design Engineer
General Know-it-All
www.Glass-Holes.com
Mike@Glass-Holes.com

 

[twistedfinn967]

I'm glad you are getting the answers that you need. GH's is awesome, their stuff and support is top notch!

Keep us posted as to your progress.

 

[billdogg]

Is yours like this attachment?

Sorry it took me so long to reply. Yes, that is exactly what I am talking about, except I put another elbow and a short piece of pvc on it to keep the salt creep to a minimum.

 

[wbrinker]

You could use flexible PVC and avoid the 45 all together

 

[ProudSoonersFan]

I did this (attached pic) and it works great!

 

[ProudSoonersFan]

I think one of the pictures didn't work...