Drop off reef design - Starphire

[karimwassef]

I'm not so worried about the base. I'm more concerned with the side glass fracturing at the L corner or bottom.

 

[scubadan206]

At the depth you are talking about I would not go with less than .75 inch glass.
To cut glass at an angle like that will take an expensive piece of machinery anyway. A water-jet, or similar. The cost on thickness of glass will be secondary to the cost of the work you want them to do on it.
Also I don't really think it's possible to use two different thicknesses, and join them with a butt-joint to make the total length. It would always be an obvious flaw in the "aesthetics" as you put it.
[Unless you want to put in some kind of support built into the design that would hide the fact you have two different pieces of glass. That's an option.] <----Added thought..
Like Dave said, the maximum height of the tank will dictate the thickness you require.
You're obviously wanting to do this as an outlet for your creativity. I can totally relate! Let it flow.

 

[scubadan206]

Alright more thought.. Build in some kind of border at the corners for aesthetics. Think of this as two, three sided tanks now. One for the 24 inch depth. One for the drop-off section. You need thicker glass for the drop-off. So build it separate and hide the seams with decorations that also give you the structural support and strength you need. Then build the drop-off as deep as you want.
Did I hit on something, or no?

 

[karimwassef]

My original design was based on the two tank and two glass thickness concept. But looking at existing drop off tanks, the transition is a key piece of the view. It would be like taking two pictures of Niagra falls and gluing them together to show its beauty. The medium distracts from the sense of immersion in the view. Too disruptive.

The deep end whole face is 0.75" because of the depth.

The bottom of the deep end and the vertical bottom are also 0.75".

The L shape only has the last 24" going deep to 36". Out of 120", only 21.5" x 18" of the glass will be in the deep. Depth is usually the only determinant of thickness, but when it's very narrow, that counts too.

The corner would start as a circular hole with a 2" radius. Then the straight cuts would be made perpendicular. The bottom will also be reinforced wth eurobracing inside the tank floor.

With that much support over a short span, will 0.5" work?

If not, how about 18" span? 12"?

90% is shallow. To pay for .75" is nearly doubling the glass cost.

 

[karimwassef]

the tank will also sit in a 3/4" plywood finished base . At least 1" of plywood will overlap the tank bottom to seat it in position. So the bottom section would be eurobraced internally with double stacks of overlapping 0.5" glass at 4" wide (1" brace thickness section inside) and plywood braced externally with 3/4" plywood framing for the bottom 1".

With the corner of the L formed with a radial cut, the vertical face and the bottom of the shallow section would be eurobraced and mated with sections of overlapping 0.5" glass too.

 

[FloformAustria]

Have you already talked to a professional tank builder? What they say to the ideas you have?

Maybe they have some input we haven't thought about...

 

[biecacka]

I seen your link. You will see that I also asked him what adhesive he used. I know how you're trying to do it, I'm only saying that once you get that far....what adhesive is used to connect the pieces.
That is why I suggested reaching out to AGE, they could likely answer both questions.

Corey

 

[karimwassef]

Based on my last interaction, they'll want to build it at 2x the price it would cost me to have all 0.75" and build a complete tank 10' x 6' x 3'. At that point, I could create a cavity to form an L instead of cutting the glass. I could even use the space underneath as a massive dark cavern space with low flow - a new zone in the tank...

 

[karimwassef]

Here are some closeups of the detail

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/0_zpsomtyenow.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/0_zpsomtyenow.png" border="0" alt=" photo 0_zpsomtyenow.png"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/1_zpshpxtm14n.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/1_zpshpxtm14n.png" border="0" alt=" photo 1_zpshpxtm14n.png"/></a>

 

[karimwassef]

anyone seen highrise in a reef?

if you've never seen a highrise... here's some examples

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/mqpy0QWcyto" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Gk7rTn8D9bY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/06GfYEAbiuw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[karimwassef]

Ok. This is just for fun, but I wanted to combine all three "creative" elements into the design to see what it could be.

It's more than I think is possible, but I've said that before and ended up doing it... here's the thought bubble taking form:

1. drop off (two different depths)
2. highrise (elevated enclosed section where a vacuum is used to raise the water above the normal water level
3. dark cavern section (large sealed enclosed area with limited access)

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/3_zps5waqoo7d.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/3_zps5waqoo7d.png" border="0" alt=" photo 3_zps5waqoo7d.png"/></a>

This is what all three combined into the solar tank would look like... might even be simpler to build.

 

[FloformAustria]

Looks insane xD

 

[scubadan206]

Not to be negative or anything, but with all of these designs you will be paying through the nose for just the materials. It's pretty cool and all, just that in practice, some of it seems to be more trouble and cost than it's worth.
Another thing I see is that even at your latitude, sps corals specifically will not be happy with a sunlit tank. They need more consistent photoperiods than our climate can provide.
Than Thein at Tidal Gardens found this out the hard way in his greenhouse.
He can grow sps coral alright, but they look like crap for 10 months out of the year. It is only happy with a 12 hour photoperiod. This only happens for a few months out of the year. The rest of the year sps are just unhappy brown sticks. His soft corals have to be shaded and his sps system is lit exclusively with supplemental lighting. Mike Palletta also, American Reef channel on youtube, found that a sunlit tank is only suitable for select soft corals. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkmi8x3NMck
Bad thing, a redesign, I know, but you are in the design phase...:sad2:

 

[albano]

Ok. This is just for fun, but I wanted to combine all three "creative" elements into the design to see what it could be.

It's more than I think is possible, but I've said that before and ended up doing it... here's the thought bubble taking form:

1. drop off (two different depths)
2. highrise (elevated enclosed section where a vacuum is used to raise the water above the normal water level
3. dark cavern section (large sealed enclosed area with limited access)

Looks impossible to clean glass and aquascape

 

[biecacka]

Did they provide you with information on what they use to connect the glass and pvc?

Corey

 

[karimwassef]

Not to be negative or anything, but with all of these designs you will be paying through the nose for just the materials. It's pretty cool and all, just that in practice, some of it seems to be more trouble and cost than it's worth.
Another thing I see is that even at your latitude, sps corals specifically will not be happy with a sunlit tank. They need more consistent photoperiods than our climate can provide.
Than Thein at Tidal Gardens found this out the hard way in his greenhouse.
He can grow sps coral alright, but they look like crap for 10 months out of the year. It is only happy with a 12 hour photoperiod. This only happens for a few months out of the year. The rest of the year sps are just unhappy brown sticks. His soft corals have to be shaded and his sps system is lit exclusively with supplemental lighting. Mike Palletta also, American Reef channel on youtube, found that a sunlit tank is only suitable for select soft corals. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkmi8x3NMck
Bad thing, a redesign, I know, but you are in the design phase...:sad2:

If I gave up every time someone else failed, I wouldn't even have an sps mixed reef.

You're not being negative - in every project, there's the one that calls for caution and creates the necessary drag to avoid it spinning out of control. CONGRATS!

I've seen both posts and Mike is in PA... I'm in TX. He had a little sliver of light shining through a roof opening, I have nearly 270 degrees of open light access.

Than makes excellent youtubes. I love it! But he has a massive greenhouse that creates its own shade (self-shading). He only really gets light from above and some angles.

Also, most people completely ignore the angle of the sun's rays. Depending on where you live, there is ONLY ONE direction the greenhouse should point. If you're off by 15 degrees, you lose a few months of the year. Check out my demonstration on the greenhouse glass thread.

I've done the shadow analysis and the sunlight will be available for 8 hours most days. I'm also adding 2400W-4000W of supplemental light (yes - in addition to). This is blue/uv only with a very low power white for nighttime viewing.

This is only 1" wide to avoid obstructing the sunlight. It's a full on DIY because noone else has anything like it.

so,... thanks for the words of caution - I know it comes from wanting to help. Instead of "no, it can't be done" - let's go with "if it were possible, how would it be done"... I know - I sound like a self-help guru.

On to the "paying through the nose" and "is it worth it"... I cost optimize everything I can. I'm an engineer and scientist by training so I see everything as a DIY until I see someone who can do it better, cheaper, and much faster. I'm almost not in a rush... so I can wait for deals or take my time building things over years.

If I were contracting someone to do this for me, you'd be right.

Is it worth it? hmmmm... That one's personal. My wife would say that the whole concept of keeping any coral in a house is silly and that fish are for eating... so - clearly - we're all different.

As much as I enjoy the reef, the creative process of creating an environment that makes them grow and prosper without costing me my shirt is a source of personal pleasure - Yes.

Is it rational? Arguable... Is it worth it - definitely, for me.

 

[karimwassef]

Looks impossible to clean glass and aquascape

Cleaning the glass is about having enough space to be magnet accessible.

Aquascaping - there wouldn't be any in the highrise or cavern. None at all. These are open water zones.

The highrise would also make access to the drop off very difficult. That would basically be a "it is what it is" zone - like the cavern.

The dropoff is still in scope. The highrise and cavern were just the creative engine on hyperdrive... but there's enough drag to slow them down.

 

[karimwassef]

Did they provide you with information on what they use to connect the glass and pvc?

Corey

No. I didn't ask. Maybe I'll reach out again. I'm just a little cautious once I get the feeling that the profit margin of a vendor is out of my range of my desire to fund them.

 

[karimwassef]

Looks insane xD

Said the man with an amazing Starphire dropoff tank in Austria!

 

[albano]

Cleaning the glass is about having enough space to be magnet accessible.

IMO the magnets would not be able to properly clean the corners

The highrise would also make access to the drop off very difficult. That would basically be a "it is what it is" zone - like the cavern.

That's what I was referring to


The idea looks good on paper, but I think it would end up a major headache for you