fishmonkey
Member
Man, I shoud've used that sale while I had the chance. Was gonna get a 75 or something. Too late now...
drummereef's 180g in-wall build
- Thread starter drummereef
- Start date
drummereef
Team RC
I hope I don't disappoint with that kind of set up. :rollface:
you should see if there is a petco in your area that has the 1.00 per gallon sale going on
Definitely. Waiting for that sale again. I had my heart set on a 40 Breeder but do you think its deep enough for a fuge? I don't know if I'm sold on putting a DSB in there just yet but there would definitely be a variety of macros and rubble etc...
110galreef
New member
Drum...Food for thought here....
If params are perfect ( as you are basically to clean), why complicate the sytem with another variable to add and maintain. Unless you see a need to Extra nutrient export or the Need for the extra pods, I'd keep everything as is. Also the cheato in the sump is cool, but one more thing to maintain and now with extra light in the sump, more algae on the stuff to clean as well as coraline algae......
Im telling you .....I love the ease of:
Apex running ATO, Lights & Heaters,
Simple 2 part dosing (set & forget) watch every week or two,
a little carbon changed every three weeks,
Rocking skimmer
Basic Water changes every 2 weeks.
Nothing else fancy........
I kicked around the fudge & Bio Pellets & whatnot too, but if simple worrks....Do It.
Oh & i tried AA and they seem to be doing nothing...so those are done when they run out. But i am going to try & add some Kent essential elements to my liquid calcium 2 part dosing to be dosed with that every day & see if anything improves. Want to keep 2 weeks WC's but the essential elements may help this as the corals use up the stuff? Who knows, but it is about $10 for a 4-6 weeks supply worth a try.
If params are perfect ( as you are basically to clean), why complicate the sytem with another variable to add and maintain. Unless you see a need to Extra nutrient export or the Need for the extra pods, I'd keep everything as is. Also the cheato in the sump is cool, but one more thing to maintain and now with extra light in the sump, more algae on the stuff to clean as well as coraline algae......
Im telling you .....I love the ease of:
Apex running ATO, Lights & Heaters,
Simple 2 part dosing (set & forget) watch every week or two,
a little carbon changed every three weeks,
Rocking skimmer
Basic Water changes every 2 weeks.
Nothing else fancy........
I kicked around the fudge & Bio Pellets & whatnot too, but if simple worrks....Do It.
Oh & i tried AA and they seem to be doing nothing...so those are done when they run out. But i am going to try & add some Kent essential elements to my liquid calcium 2 part dosing to be dosed with that every day & see if anything improves. Want to keep 2 weeks WC's but the essential elements may help this as the corals use up the stuff? Who knows, but it is about $10 for a 4-6 weeks supply worth a try.
drummereef
Team RC
Good suggestions Steve.
The reason I put the Chaeto in the sump is my NO3 is hanging around 15ppm. PO4 is still 0.00 thankfully. I believe most if not all of my issues stem from one major variable, Dinos. If I didn't have a Dino outbreak then a simple plan like you mentioned would have been ideal and one that I would have followed. So I took action... When lights out didn't kill them I tried dosing H2O2. When that didn't work I tried to limit trace elements by waiting longer between water changes. That along with raising my pH with Kalk has been the most positive in regards to the Dino issue. Obviously the elevated NO3 is a direct result of the infrequent water changes. It's a bad cycle to get into but I feel like I had no other option then to try it. "Dino Desperation" is a bad thing, especially when you see it start to take your corals out. Believe me, my old 40g was the definition of KISS. Weekly water changes with daily additions of 2-part... That's it, nothing more nothing less. Great results btw, but that tank never suffered the Dino or Cyano issues this tank has had. Guess it was just luck more than anything with that one.
My 180g on the other hand has had it's share of difficulty along the way but it's getting better. The Kalk method has turned out to be very effective at keeping my Alk/Ca very consistent at this point. It's a set it and forget it kind of system. I refill the Kalk reservoir roughly every 5 days or so and just let it do it's thing. I was leery about putting the bio-pellets back online as I feel they can be too efficient. So I opted for a more "gentle" approach at keeping the NO3 in check.
110galreef
New member
Cool...well hopefully you can get those dino's zapped & move on to better issues.....Like what corals & fish next.
drummereef
Team RC
That's what I'm talking about! :beer:
bheron
Active member
Hey Brett, awesome progress! I love checking in on this setup. I actually have questions and some feedback for once
- I love the chromis and will be following yours closely. One of my favorite fish but always have the same results. I add 7-9 chromis (people say they do well in odd numbers). When I get them from the LFS, always, a bunch die off mysteriously. They're all eating, getting along fine, but for some reason some die off. I've read these fish are so cheap b/c they use cyanide to catch them. Hence, they arrive ok, look fine, but then die off mysteriously. Who knows. But always the same for me. After a few months I build up a nice school of healthy chromis. Id say, to get a school of 7 healthy fish i usually have to buy 3xs that. Just my experience. So I'm so happy to see you've had 9 for a month now! You should be good! Awesome EDIT: i see you said you feed them "RODS". what is that?
- As far as the Chaeto, I have experience with it. As you have, put some in the sump in the main flow and light it. High flow is important for nutrient export (like a filter) and of course light. 24/7 light will help it grow best, but like you mentioned, its good to have alternate lighting in your tank. So, best to light it at night while the light in your DT is off.
- Also, right now it will be tumbling under the water line and, like everyone said, watch out for it drifting into the return pump. Well, what you'll probably find is after awhile it will nicely start to settle in as a layer at the top of your waterline. ALWAYS happens for me. Eventually it will grow out like a layer or "turf" at the top of your water, expanding out and down. Upside is that its the perfect filter, downside...it becomes sort of a "mechanical" filter. Meaning, it will catch some stuff that wasnt picked up by your skimmer and should be removed from your system. Every few months you'll have to prune it and maybe even rinse it to remove the detritus that's built up. I've struggled with the pros and cons of it many times. In order to get the high flow and best nutrient extract, sump is a good place. Just watch out for what it collects.
- Now, on collecting the "good stuff". You mentioned using it to house pods and stuff. its perfect for that. However, I think you need slower flow for that. If your sump is high flow I'm not sure how well it will work as a breeding ground for pods, etc. I have a separate section in a 15g fuge where i grow the pods in my chaeto. But, that defeats the KISS, right?
Hopefully your tank will be so pristine you wont need chaeto too much (if it grows like nuts, then its doing its job and pulling out alot of excess nutrients).
Sorry for the long diatribe on the chaeto, but its one of the few things I've done well in my setup over the years
- I love the chromis and will be following yours closely. One of my favorite fish but always have the same results. I add 7-9 chromis (people say they do well in odd numbers). When I get them from the LFS, always, a bunch die off mysteriously. They're all eating, getting along fine, but for some reason some die off. I've read these fish are so cheap b/c they use cyanide to catch them. Hence, they arrive ok, look fine, but then die off mysteriously. Who knows. But always the same for me. After a few months I build up a nice school of healthy chromis. Id say, to get a school of 7 healthy fish i usually have to buy 3xs that. Just my experience. So I'm so happy to see you've had 9 for a month now! You should be good! Awesome EDIT: i see you said you feed them "RODS". what is that?
- As far as the Chaeto, I have experience with it. As you have, put some in the sump in the main flow and light it. High flow is important for nutrient export (like a filter) and of course light. 24/7 light will help it grow best, but like you mentioned, its good to have alternate lighting in your tank. So, best to light it at night while the light in your DT is off.
- Also, right now it will be tumbling under the water line and, like everyone said, watch out for it drifting into the return pump. Well, what you'll probably find is after awhile it will nicely start to settle in as a layer at the top of your waterline. ALWAYS happens for me. Eventually it will grow out like a layer or "turf" at the top of your water, expanding out and down. Upside is that its the perfect filter, downside...it becomes sort of a "mechanical" filter. Meaning, it will catch some stuff that wasnt picked up by your skimmer and should be removed from your system. Every few months you'll have to prune it and maybe even rinse it to remove the detritus that's built up. I've struggled with the pros and cons of it many times. In order to get the high flow and best nutrient extract, sump is a good place. Just watch out for what it collects.
- Now, on collecting the "good stuff". You mentioned using it to house pods and stuff. its perfect for that. However, I think you need slower flow for that. If your sump is high flow I'm not sure how well it will work as a breeding ground for pods, etc. I have a separate section in a 15g fuge where i grow the pods in my chaeto. But, that defeats the KISS, right?
Hopefully your tank will be so pristine you wont need chaeto too much (if it grows like nuts, then its doing its job and pulling out alot of excess nutrients).
Sorry for the long diatribe on the chaeto, but its one of the few things I've done well in my setup over the years
drummereef
Team RC
Hey Brett, awesome progress! I love checking in on this setup. I actually have questions and some feedback for once
Thanks for the great information Bryan.
The Rod's food is a frozen selection of a variety of foods. Most LFS carry it. http://www.rodsfood.com/ All my fish except for my Yellow Tang go nuts over the stuff, although I've never tried their vegetarian blend. And I think the corals appreciate the smaller particles as well. My sump is probably more medium flow, definitely wouldn't consider it high flow by any mean. I've even noticed some larger amphipods just hanging out on the bottom of the return section of the sump, so hopefully the Chaeto will be a nice refuge for them. The eggcrate seems to be working good along with the strainer on the return bulkhead keeping stray strands out of the return pump. I'll keep an eye on it as the Chaeto grows though.
prop-frags
SPS Slave
+1 :lol2:
Taqpol
New member
In all seriousness though, I think a 75 gallon, or other four foot tank divided in half would be perfect for your setup. That way you get a a 2'x1.5' frag tank (which is big enough for most small scale operations if you can sell/give away the corals fast enough) and a 2'x1.5' fuge (that would actually be of a decent size). Light one half with a cheap two foot fixture and the other half with the worklight you have, both on reverse cycle, and it would be perfect. Plus, it adds a significant amount more water volume.
I am following your nitrates battle closely. Even with my biopellets (which are about half gone from when I started) my nitrates have actually risen to 20ppm and my phosphates are starting to rise also! I didn't care early because when my nitrates rose to 5ppm and then 10ppm my corals actually looked better then they ever have in this tank, but now the tank is starting to look like crap again. I think I'm going to follow your example and call it quits on my pellet reactor so that I can do more frequent water changes without having to worry about my alkalinity burning the corals. Who knows, maybe i'll pull out my spare TLF150 reactor and run some GFO again!
henrystyle
Member
You have the cleanest sump I have ever seen. lol
Where is all the coraline, sponges, etc?
Where is all the coraline, sponges, etc?
drummereef
Team RC
I'll do my best...
Great ideas Alex, thank you. I think I only have space for a 3' tank on that wall unfortunately. It's going to be hard to do both in a 3' footprint but you never know until you try right!
I don't really have a need for a frag tank yet as all I have are frags in the display at this point. Ha! But planning for the future is always a good idea. I'm really surprised the bio pellets haven't kept up with your nutrients. I wonder if it's because you haven't kept the reactor full and there's just not enough to keep up with the demand. Might want to try topping the thing off and see if it makes a difference. I was always under the impression the idea is to find the right amount for the system and keep the reactor topped off to that point throughout the year. But, solid water changes will never hurt - obviously.
:lol: Good question! This is the first time I've had light directly over the sump so I'm assuming the coralline has stayed away because of this. There's quite a few scypha sponges in the overflows etc and a few in the sump as well. Probably can't see them in pics because they are so small. From time to time I scrub the acrylic down to keep it as clean as I can. Once I get the fuge set up, that will be the place for all kinds of micro fauna to call home.
fishmonkey
Member
I know! I haven't seen a more clean sump in all of the threads that I have looked through. It's amazing what Drummer has managed to do with this tank. :crazy1:
Taqpol
New member
I think I remembered what that wall looked like. You could always go vertical and have a 40 breeder fuge with a 30 breeder frag tank above it.Great ideas Alex, thank you. I think I only have space for a 3' tank on that wall unfortunately. It's going to be hard to do both in a 3' footprint but you never know until you try right!
I'm really surprised the bio pellets haven't kept up with your nutrients. I wonder if it's because you haven't kept the reactor full and there's just not enough to keep up with the demand. Might want to try topping the thing off and see if it makes a difference. I was always under the impression the idea is to find the right amount for the system and keep the reactor topped off to that point throughout the year. But, solid water changes will never hurt - obviously.
I have also wondered if my dropping bio pellet levels were the cause of my problems, but honestly they are turning into a headache for me. I have a lot of trouble trying to maintain my alk below 9.0 considering the salt I use mixes up to a dKh of 11.0, and my corals really do look like crap. I changed so many parts of this tank compared to my last one I feel like I just need to go back to the basics for a little while.
drummereef
Team RC
Ha! Thanks fishmonkey.
Good thoughts... Yeah, keeping the Alk low is one of the most difficult things to do with that system. There's only a couple salts out there that are recommended for this purpose, Reefer's Best I think being one of them. They are expensive and hard to find especially locally in my experience. Good luck with your setup, I hope the corals start turning around for you.
henrystyle
Member
Stop scrubing stuff down bro. lol. Tank needs to mature. To clean is not really a good thing...:lol: Good question! This is the first time I've had light directly over the sump so I'm assuming the coralline has stayed away because of this. There's quite a few scypha sponges in the overflows etc and a few in the sump as well. Probably can't see them in pics because they are so small. From time to time I scrub the acrylic down to keep it as clean as I can. Once I get the fuge set up, that will be the place for all kinds of micro fauna to call home.
drummereef
Team RC
Gotsta keep the ice lookin' nice... :lol:
fishmonkey
Member
drummereef
Team RC
LOL. I really don't clean my sump as much as it's been talked about. I siphon the detritus on a regular basis when I do a water change but I only wiped the inside of the front panel of the return section for the fuge pics I posted earlier. I rarely, if ever, clean the inside of my sump walls simply because they don't need it. The sump pretty much stays clean on it's own.
I never had a diatom issue, but have been dealing with dinoflagellates as of the last couple months. Still a battle but it's getting better. The kind I have doesn't grow in mats like you see in other people's tanks, it's more stringy and seeks out the corals. Very weird. Since I've started to light the "fuge" they seems to be collecting down there for the most part, especially on the eggcrate wall I made that fits around the return bulkhead.
fishmonkey
Member
Sorry, I meant to say dinoflagellates. Is your chaeto growing nicely?
