DSB Crashed

[ttwong]

Hello all,

I've done a lot of searching on this site and can't seem to find a recommendation for my problem. I have a 280g that has been set up with a semi DSB (4-5 inches) for over 5 years. Over the past year I've neglected it somewhat and had a breakout of grape calaupera throughout my rock and top of my sandbed.

4 weeks ago I made a decision to either clean it up, or quit the hobby all together (after 10 years), and have decided to clean it up. During this process of pulling out all the algae out of the sand bed, I've found that the roots have created a hard crust/mat on the top layer. Below this layer is a layer of detrious and plum of dark grey sand with pockets of black hydrogen sulphide.

The buildup of detrious and additional reduced flow have caused parts of my sandbed to die. I've over the past several weeks increased my skimming (really wet skimmate), increased my use of rowaphose, seachem purigen, and stirred up small pockets of the sandbed to try to remove detrious and encourage worms into that area. I've also added some conches to stir up the surface further.

Some have suggested on other threads to tear the system down and either start over with new sand, or go bare bottom, neither which I want to do.

Can anyone comment on my approach or provide further recommendation?

Thanks in advance.

Terrance

 

[adam_not4u]

i'm glad you posted this thread because as i was making the decision for a dsb or just a couple of inches, i thought about what would happen once the dsb reached this level. i ended up putting the dsb in the sump/fuge so it could be isolated and replaced.

back to you though... i'm sure you know more than i about the hobby but first things first- anything you want to keep that is still alive is going to have to get removed from the tank. One way or another that sandbed is coming out or it's like a time bomb waiting to go off.

i don't think i would tear down the whole setup though. once the dsb is removed, no matter what you go back with, everything else should eventually go back to normal. with this being an established tank, with water changes and maintance it should be okay.

although this is only a newb's opinion take it as such

 

[electraglide999]

wow, thank for the info

 

[Putawaywet]

I'm far from a DSB expert either (Too many years in the commercial aquarium sector has me ingrained on the use of shallow sandbeds that are frequently hydrovac'd)

But with that said, I think if I were faced with a similar choice, and like you, probably not anxious to jump on the suggestion to tear down and start over. I'd ask myself the hard question of what inside my tank was I willing to lose? As in, are you packing a big collection of expensive stonies that if sold could buy you a decent car?

If the answer is no, then I would suggest siphoning out a small portion of the sandbed every few days. I would rinse it as thoroughly as possible using old tank water and then re-introduce it back into your tank a little at at a time. I would then alternate a portion of sand removal with a portion returned every week or so. I'd be looking to remove no more then say 10% at a time spreading it out over several months.

If, on the other hand your collection of corals rivals the crown jewels, then in the immortal words of Gilda Radner...

...never mind!

keep shopping around for other ideas

Brett

 

[GoBigOrGoHome]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13581142#post13581142 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Putawaywet
I'm far from a DSB expert either (Too many years in the commercial aquarium sector has me ingrained on the use of shallow sandbeds that are frequently hydrovac'd)

But with that said, I think if I were faced with a similar choice, and like you, probably not anxious to jump on the suggestion to tear down and start over. I'd ask myself the hard question of what inside my tank was I willing to lose? As in, are you packing a big collection of expensive stonies that if sold could buy you a decent car?

If the answer is no, then I would suggest siphoning out a small portion of the sandbed every few days. I would rinse it as thoroughly as possible using old tank water and then re-introduce it back into your tank a little at at a time. I would then alternate a portion of sand removal with a portion returned every week or so. I'd be looking to remove no more then say 10% at a time spreading it out over several months.

If, on the other hand your collection of corals rivals the crown jewels, then in the immortal words of Gilda Radner...

...never mind!

keep shopping around for other ideas

Brett

Agreed!:thumbsup: IMO, the sand bed can be preserved if you remove it piece by piece, cleaning it and replacing it, being careful not to stir up the death trap that is the remainder of the sand bed. The conches should help to stir things slowly, maybe consider adding some more inverts of this nature like some cucumbers or sand-sifting stars.

 

[Logzor]

Just go BB; sand just traps and builds up detritus unless you have perfect flow throughout your tank. In my 55 the sand has done more harm than good since flow is not directed well enough. If it was I would be stirring up a sand storm.

My new tank is BB...no hassles.

 

[DidYouSayReefer]

Sand is a good place for plankton to grow, which in turn feeds your corals. I would pull everything out temporarily while you try to clean it. If you disturb too much everything could die. DSBs are good but you have to maintain them. You have to replenish the sand stirrers, not eaters. No sand sifting gobies or sand stars. The eat the creatures and bacteria that help stir everything. Get some Nasarius sp?? snails, hermits, a cuc. I would even add some good quality LR that is cured and full of life. Maybe some with some coral. This will help add bristle worms, pods and other things that keep you bed clean. You are never supposed to disturb the DSB as these creatures slowly turn it for you. Good Luck.

 

[BeanAnimal]

DidYouSay...

Any rock in his tank is already LR. The DSB can be removed a little at a time without removing the livestock from the tank. At the same time, a remote DSB can be setup. When all is said and done, the display can be left with an SSB and an RDSB without tearing the tank down.

The grape caulerpa is going to be hard to knock down. A Foxface Rabbitfish will do the trick in most cases.

I do not care to get into a DSB vs OTHER debate, there are many methods that work well. In the OPs case, the DSB has failed (he inicated due to neglect) and it must be removed or replaced.

 

[ttwong]

Thanks to all for your comments.

Just to give a bit of an update, I've continued to stir up a little bit of the sandbed each date, skimmed aggressively (4-5 gal skimmate per day), powerhead the top of the sand bed, and continued my routine of carbon, purigen and rowaphose.

Except for one pocket of the sand, which as some of you have suggested, I might just siphon out, other parts have greatly improved. When stirred, the cloud of silt is either only light grey (it started out as dark gray), or the normal beige colour.

I have not lost anything.

As for the calaupra, two weeks ago, I pulled out most of my rock a piece at a time and manually removed most of the algae. The algae on the sandbed has all been removed chunks at a time with a prong. Except for a few small pockets of hard to reach places, 95% of this problem is now removed, and with my aggressive use of purigen and rowaphose, I don't expect the algae to overtake my tank again.

One thing I did forget to mention originally, and is somewhat off topic, I use an RO/IO filtered water. After a few months of battlling calaupra, I checked the dissolved organics after my filter and it measured over 200ppm!

I thought certainly that can't be since my tap water is about 10-12 ppm. Also the deionizer was only changed less than 1 month ago. I changed all my filters and now its back to normal 0-1 ppm. My water filter was adding to my problem.

You've got to love this hobby .

Terrance

 

[ReefEnabler]

Wow, glad you caught the TDS creep in your RO water!

Also glad to hear that things are going ok for you.

One thing you might consider as the final part of a 1-2 punch against your algae problems would be to leave the lights off for 3 3days, and then on the 4th day do actinic only. Many people have had success with this, claiming it weakens the algae to where it is either easily removed manually, or literally dissolves in the water column for the skimmer to remove.

BTW what skimmer do you have??? 4-5 gallons of skimmate a day is pretty insane

 

[ttwong]

ReefEnabler,

Don't think I even need to do that...the algae for the most part is gone. Right now I'm just stirring the sand and remove as much ditrious build up as possible.

I have a euroreef 12-2 or 12-3...it has two sedra 5000 pumps. Its not that hard, you just raise the output tube, and end up with the water column almost up to the edge.

The skimmate is very wet, but I do get a lot of the detrious that's floating in the water column out. I increase me top off water which comes out of my kalkreactor, and every few days add a cup of salt into a micron bag and put it in my 30gal refugium.

Terrance

 

[sabalough]

I had a complete tamk crash about two ang a half years ago.The reasons were mainy but boiled down to it being way,way over stocked,and neglect.

("overstocked"every square inch was covered in corals,rock,sand, and three walls it was out of controll)My wife was having a dificult pregnancy And I let the tank get out of controll.

("neglect"When my boy arrived I was unable to get back to the house more then once a week for a few weeks)(Every thing worked out well with my baby) I did not have an ato system, each time I got back to the house I would add fresh water and restart the filtration.

A chain of events followed that killed 80% of the tank. I have a DSB that when all was said and done was black and grose.

I decided to try to save the DSB and it worked. Here is what I did.
The entire recovery took about 6 mounths.
First I removed every live coral and critter And some live rock(rinsed in new S/W) And set up an emergency tank for the survivors.
Then I removed as much of the dead as I could.Followed by several huge 75% water changes. I used a gravel cleaner to go through the dsb about 1/3 with water change.
For the next 30days or so I did esentialy nothing.
Then I harvested most of the calerpa (by now it was growing everywhere)
Over the next couple of months I started to return the live stock to the tank. A little at a time, And continued to let the calerpa grow harvesting it as necessaly.(the calerpa growing in the sand eventualy consumed what crud was left in the sand bed)

For the next couple of months I continued with small w/c and harvesting the calerpa.
About the 5-6 month mark the water quality was spot on and the calerpa growth was slowing down.
from 6-12 months the tank went through the normal algal bloom sequences for a new tank. The sand bed critters (pods,worms etc)went through several growth booms throught this process as well.
After 9 months I started adding new live stock.

This method is not for the impatient or the faint of heart. A tank full of calerpa is ugly and discouraging. Harvesting (in my case a 5 gal bucket of calerpa every weekend or two) is not fun. But, the reward is watching a natural process return your tank to ideal conditions.

It sounds as if you did not have a "full crash" and by doing some carefull sand bed cleaning and allowing the calerpa to do its job your tank can recover naturaly. you do have to watch that the calerpa does not crowd out your corals in the process. When it was time for the calerpa to go I aded a tang to rid the tank of it.

I am not saying this is the best way to recover a DSB It is Just how I did it.

 

[sabalough]

As to the origional post:
The calerpa did not create the hard layer. Look to the chemistery forum for an anser to that problem. As for the nutrient rich layer this is what the calerpa is living on. This layer is your problem not the calerpa.

Not mentioned in my previous post, heavy skimming is a must throughout the process of recovery.

Steve,

 

[ttwong]

Thanks Steve for the info.

I'm now about 2 months into it myself, and yesterday did another 15% water change. That's two weeks in a row now, haven't done that in a long time . Doesn't sound like a lot, but in a 250 gal water system, it is.

Continued to stir pockets of sandbed and heavy skimming and filtration. Haven't lost anything.

Cleaned and soaked my tunze 6200, that made a big difference due to a thick buildup of coralline algae on the intake grill. Overall, things are continually improving and even considering stocking some new sps.

Terrance

 

[tcmfish]

The hard layer is probably due to all the kalk top off you are using.

Also I am pretty sure there are calcifying bacteria that live in the sandbed that overtime turn it into a big pile of "sand stone".

 

[bozoman]

tcmfish is right. Over time that is going to cause the sand to get solidified.

Nassarius snails are incredible at gently stirring the sand over time. I like to use blue legged or scarlet reef hermits for keeping the top layer of sand clean. Over feeding is dangerous with a DSB, due to the buildup of organics, and a less efficient cleanup crew. Therefore it is good practice to reduce feeding. This keeps the sand clean and my large cleanup crew working on my DSB all through the day as well as the night.



You might as well leave the algae until the problem is solved. The algae will continue nutrient export and clean the water while the problem is fixed. The algae will quickly die down after you remove its food source. Then pull the algae out.

 

[ttwong]

Thanks for your comments. The algae in my main and refugium has all died, and the other day I spent 6 hours, pulling out my rock and scrubbing it down.

Maybe in another few weeks, I'll start buying some corals again.

Terrance