DSB in a bucket for nitrate control

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done, it's up and running.

koden, i think the consensus is that you would need sand from an established DSB for it to be any good for you. IMO ' live sand ' ( unless taken from an established tank ) is a bit of a rip off. who knows how long it's been in the bag and what is live on it???? the bacteria needed for a DSB is different than the normal bacteria and would only be present if taken from a DSB
 
thanks for the answers!

So sand from an established system that's "Live sand" has a bunch of pods etc, which would likely die in a bucket right? most of those critters are detritus / scavengers, and with such high flow and no det buildup, they would basically starve no? What we want is the bacteria, rather than the little brittle stars etc. right? So the actual established sand we want is the sand from below 4 feet from the surface, to say about 2"?

And I will probably just get dead sand instead of purchasing the live sand.

The system will be about 180g total water volume.

It's a brand new system I'm setting up too, so it won't have much nitrates in the beginning...

Has anyone set one up at the start of a new system? If not I could see if it can control nitrates from the very start!
 
I am planning to set this up with my 29G which will hopefully begin pretty soon, but I believe we are the only ones. And you are correct you only want bateria. If anything dies it will cause problems for the entire system so my suggestion is getting fresh sand, and fresh sand alone.

But thats just me
 
sounds like a plan.

I'll get a good nitrate test kit from salifert =) I should be done plumbing into the basement in a couple weeks. but then I need to build the tank stand, etc =( I think in 3 months I'll be ready.
 
Hey everyone. I got my RDSB up and running last weekend, but I have a little problem with some settling in there. I think I am going to rip it down and just go with the 5gal bucket. I think the 20" diameter bucket I am using right now might be a little too much for surface area. The water can't move it all.

Also, I just built myself a Denitrafier. I will be installing it tomorrow. It is supposed to work quite well for Nitrates. I will keep you posted.

Oh yeah. I said I would post some pics of the system once it was finished. I didn't do that yet because I can't get any good pics from my camera.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6920382#post6920382 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Savatage
Hey everyone. I got my RDSB up and running last weekend, but I have a little problem with some settling in there. I think I am going to rip it down and just go with the 5gal bucket. I think the 20" diameter bucket I am using right now might be a little too much for surface area. The water can't move it all.

Also, I just built myself a Denitrafier. I will be installing it tomorrow. It is supposed to work quite well for Nitrates. I will keep you posted.

Oh yeah. I said I would post some pics of the system once it was finished. I didn't do that yet because I can't get any good pics from my camera.
Click to expand...

what's a denitrafier? sounds like a fancy made up word for a contraption =)
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6919064#post6919064 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by a4twenty
done, it's up and running.
koden, i think the consensus is that you would need sand from an established DSB for it to be any good for you. IMO ' live sand ' ( unless taken from an established tank ) is a bit of a rip off. who knows how long it's been in the bag and what is live on it???? the bacteria needed for a DSB is different than the normal bacteria and would only be present if taken from a DSB
Click to expand...
You COULD be right about the value of live sand, depending on the supplier, maybe not.

The statement on bacteria is erroneous. Get your bacteria and or sand from a tropical marine environment, and you will be fine. Get them purchased, or from your LFS, or from your buddies tank, or your own.

Collection depth is not so touchy as being discussed here. Get the bacteria or sand and put it in your bed. The bacteria will take care of themselves. If you have pulled sand from deep in your bed, put it in and cover it with another inch of dead sand and fill and start up right away. Starting the flow right away is the key.

> Barry :)
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6919264#post6919264 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by koden
thanks for the answers!

So sand from an established system that's "Live sand" has a bunch of pods etc, which would likely die in a bucket right? most of those critters are detritus / scavengers, and with such high flow and no det buildup, they would basically starve no? What we want is the bacteria, rather than the little brittle stars etc. right? So the actual established sand we want is the sand from below 4 feet from the surface, to say about 2"?

And I will probably just get dead sand instead of purchasing the live sand.

The system will be about 180g total water volume.

It's a brand new system I'm setting up too, so it won't have much nitrates in the beginning...

Has anyone set one up at the start of a new system? If not I could see if it can control nitrates from the very start!
Click to expand...



If as you state, you are starting a brand new system, then I would not worry about it. The bacteria will develop on their own (from your live rock) Are you planning on a BB or some sand in the tank? You can jump start or "innoculate" the tank with a cup or so of sand from an established tank. If not just cycle the tank with either the LR or a pinch of food or dead shrmp.
 
The tank system will be an upgrade from a 32 gallon system, but I will allow the big system to cycle first, seeded with a couple pieces or LR and LS from my established tank. Probably not enough LR or LS though to greatly reduce the cycle period, but it will be good to jumpstart it.

It will have something like a 1/2" - 1" sand bed.

Since the tank is so new, I guess it'd only make sense for the bacteria to grow from scratch as well.
 
In that case, if you also use a few gals of water from your existing tank, you will be all set. Good luck with the upgrade!
 
I was also entertaining the idea of completely quaratining everything from the other tank, because my fish did catch ich once.

but I'm guessing the established water will have some bacteria as well to seed the system...
 
Whew!
Finally read all 31 pages but still have a couple of questions. I apologize if they've been answered already but I went cross-eyed about 15 pages ago and I'm not yet a professional bucket plumber!
For those of us who are new to the hobby and may plan on running FOWLR setups without sumps or refuges, would this RDSB still be a benefit of any kind?
Does this setup require a pump or can the moderate flow from a canister filter be used to push the water through? I have an admittedly cheesy plan below and would like to know if it's feasible. It would be closed loop, obviously, and may be changed in the future if my plans change but for the moment I'm interested in this particular setup...
Thanks.
willthiswork.jpg

E.T.A: I apologize for the size of the pic.
 
The output from your bucket will need to use gravity to return to the tank/sump, but other than that the filter will work.

Marcelo -
 
Tartan... the problem with plumbing the bucket below the tank is the head pressure from the weight of the water above the bucket-- its not alot of pressure but the surface area of the bucket lid is the problem... I work with hydraulics.

I did some math and estimated about 200 pounds of force pushing up on the lid assuming 4 feet of head....

Someone else plumbed one like this but used a container that had a small screw on type lid.

Lemme run through the math again real quick for you...

I was on a submarine in the navy and know that for every 100 feet of depth on my sub, we got about 40 psi of pressure (for salt water)

So for 4 feet you get about 1.6 psi (40 psi divided by 25)

Surface area of a bucket lid...
Pi*radius^2

For a 6" radius bucket (12" lid)-- the area is 113 square inches--
3.1415*36=113.0973

Now the force pushing up on the bucket lid will be pressure x area

so 1.6 psi x 113= 181 pounds of force...

The force exherting on the lid is directly proportional to the area of the lid and the force increase exponentially with radius of the lid... so if you have a container with a small lid, the force will be ALOT less...

a 4" diameter lid has a 2" radius... keeping every thing else the same... only exherts about 20 pounds of force on the lid...

If you look back a ways in this thread (I'm guessing somewhere around page 20 or so) someone posted a pic of their container--- I would try to find something similar to that to use....

If you can get the search to work, search my posts in this thread... I did the math (similar to what is above) near the pic of that persons container... should be within a page of my post with the math.
 
Spuds725:
I appreciate the math, I'll use a container like the one mentioned if I can't find a suitable overflow setup.

To anyone who cares to answer:

1. As I don't have a drilled tank, is there a diagram of a hang-on-tank overflow system to a sump that people are generally satisfied with? I know a drilled tank is the single best way to go but that's not an option right now. I've tried searching but can't find a definitive answer. Either I'm searching in the wrong areas, missing what's right in front of my face or there simply isn't a specific setup that people like?

2. Was there ever an agreement on precisely where the holes should be drilled in the RDSB bucket(i.e outflow slightly higher or lower) or doesn't it matter?
 
#1.. don't know... for purchased type everyone seems to rave about the life reef and amiracle overflows...

#2. I have mine at the same height but have the outlet with a short length of pipe in the bulkhead (not glued) with an elbow inserted on this and pointed up... this keeps the water level a little higher then the inlet bulkhead--- otherwise the water entering causes too much surface turbulence--- I used a 3/4" bulkhead for the inlet and a 1" bulkhead for the outlet-- my loop is supplied from a MJ1200 in my sump so I'm running almost 300 GPH through my loop--

I have my holes drilled right below the ribs that most buckets have near the top-- I'm assuming they were for strength so didn't want to cut mine.
 
wow this is a verry big thread

this is wath i did i like to test every thing befor to add it to my reef

1 x 5g salt bucket fild whit suger sand
1 x maxi jet 400
2 x fiting 1/2 inch
6 fet of clear tubing 1/2 inch
1 x 5g salt bucket fild whit wather form my thank nitrate level a over 100ppm
1 x heater set at 82

ther is no nutien of any kind in the water i use a filter pad to make sure

so this is what i think tell me if i am rong

ther will be no outside interference whit this set up juste water and sand so this way if ther is a reduction in nitrate it will be once and for all tested

tell me what you think
 
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