DSB in a bucket for nitrate control

[IZZY'SREEF]

I've been running my DSB in a 6 gal trash can for about a month now and I've noticed my nitrates going up rapidly almost as soon as I set it up. I didn't have a nitrate problem to begin with( only measured 2ppmbefore setting it up).

Anyone have any idea why I would get a nitrate spike AFTER setting up the DSB? I have a T off of my main return pump that has a prefilter sponge. I also put insome sponge after the lastbaffle in my sump to return area. I don't think it to be a detritis build up problem in the DSB. I have more flow going through the DSB than in my main display. Flow through DSB is about 200-250 gph at least, maybe more. It is so strong it dug a 2''-3'' deep crater in the sand on one side.

I have 50lbs of play sand( the kind Anthony sais was OK) and about 5lbs of crushed coral on top to keep sand from blowing around. There is about 2''-2.5'' of water running over the sand.

I hope this gives someone an idea of my dilema. Help! Please my nitrate are going up 2.5ppm a weak with regular water changes.

One thing I did notice last night is the wood chips I found in the play sand I found a couple of large chunks. Some the size of a dime almost. Would that cause nitrates?

 

[ReefTourist]

Am I correct in thinking that the return outlet needs to be larger than the input since the input is under pressure, and the outlet is not?

 

[Kinetic]

yes you're correct ReefTourist.

 

[Kinetic]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6943264#post6943264 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by S.YERGEAU
wow this is a verry big thread

this is wath i did i like to test every thing befor to add it to my reef

1 x 5g salt bucket fild whit suger sand
1 x maxi jet 400
2 x fiting 1/2 inch
6 fet of clear tubing 1/2 inch
1 x 5g salt bucket fild whit wather form my thank nitrate level a over 100ppm
1 x heater set at 82

ther is no nutien of any kind in the water i use a filter pad to make sure

so this is what i think tell me if i am rong

ther will be no outside interference whit this set up juste water and sand so this way if ther is a reduction in nitrate it will be once and for all tested

tell me what you think

this is a closed system with high nitrate batch of water? not going to work. there is no bacteria in your bucket. There may be a little in your water, but it will take FOREVER for it to build up etc. Not going to work.

 

[S.YERGEAU]

wy do you say that it is not going to work i dont understand
wer do this bacteria comme from if it is not from the water

the water that is use is from my reef ??????

so if i understan what you are talking about is that i shoud put it in my sump right a way ??????

 

[Kinetic]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6952883#post6952883 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by S.YERGEAU
wy do you say that it is not going to work i dont understand
wer do this bacteria comme from if it is not from the water

the water that is use is from my reef ??????

so if i understan what you are talking about is that i shoud put it in my sump right a way ??????

yes, connect it to your entire system, and monitor your system's water parameters. that is the ultimate test of whether it works or not. it won't hurt.

 

[barryhc]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6951725#post6951725 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ReefTourist
Am I correct in thinking that the return outlet needs to be larger than the input since the input is under pressure, and the outlet is not?

This is NOT CORRECT. Think of a canister filter.

I don't Know where Koden is coming from.

> Barry

 

[Kinetic]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6954143#post6954143 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by barryhc
This is NOT CORRECT. Think of a canister filter.

I don't Know where Koden is coming from.

> Barry

well, it is smarter to have a larger drain because if you have a lot of pressure, depending on your bucket, it could leak, lid might pop, etc. better to have a bigger drain, unless you get a completely leakproof lid / bucket setup, then you can run it like a canister.

 

[S.YERGEAU]

Thank you Koden for the tip

wen i mouved my system over my sump all of hell went loss
leaks leaks and leaks all over the place

it is back to zero for me and let it be a lesson for me

i will get the right stof for this project this week end and start all over

 

[Savatage]

S. YERGEAU: Go to page 29 of this thread and take a look at how I have my bucket plumbed into the sump. This is how you should go about plumbing it in.

Don't get me wrong. You can plumb it with a valve from your return pump (which could create problems because it is not filtered clean) or you can plumb it from your skimmer drain (this way your water is clean from any debris). Or you can plumb it from a canister filter which is also clean water.

Your main goal is to keep the water clean of debris when it enters the RDSB, but if you can not filter the water before it goes in, then you need to keep the water flow high enough to keep the debris from setling in the RDSB.

I hope this helps you out.

 

[S.YERGEAU]

thanks Savatage i did see your set up wen i read this thread and it is verry well donne

my only question is

is your bucket coverd or not

this is what i am going to do

i have a won 125 skimer that i dont use any more so i can take that skimer to prefilter the water conect it to the bucket whit bulkead ( what size is best ) the pompe outpout is 660 GPH (10HF .
i was thinking of using Spiral Reinforced PVC super flexible Tubing 3/4

or i have a fluval 404 that i can use for this project as well

tell me what you think is best

thanks

 

[Spuds725]

Time for another update...

I started my bucket DSB on Jan 3... used 50 pounds of quikrete white play sand (silica) in a bucket supplied by a MJ 1200 (so almost 300 GPH).... since then my nitrates have slowly risen from about 30 ppm to about 40 ppm-- hard to know if its doing anything... (perhaps raising slower then it would otherwise)-- I may have lost a peppermit shrimp...haven't seen him in a while and when I did it was only at night (are they nocturnal)

I'm running it on a 135 gallon tank that was set up in October (everything moved from a 72 gallon)... 2 clowns, hippo tang, bi-color angel, orchid Dottyback... a few soft corals... I do feed the tang a good amount of greens-- he has been fighting ich-- he gets minor outbreaks for a few days occassionally--- is pretty fat and appears ok otherwise. I feed the tank (besides the nori--- which my angel and female clown eat too) once per day-- either flake or a frozen mixture-- my mixture is a combination of Emerald entre, frozen mysis, and brine shrimp (I put the cubes in a small ziplock bag, break the cubes up and spoon out the desired amount to thaw)-- they consume it in 2-3 minutes.

I just added a small fuge and some chaeto--- I may add a second bucket to the loop--- might not be enough sand for my sized tank... still need to add a real fuge-- currently just a 4 gallon bucket supplied by the return from my bucket DSB-- have 2 fuges in the planning stages...just need time to build and install them.

Despite my high nitrates, I have very little hair algae (my snails keep up fine). I am getting a little bit of Cyano-- mostly in the walls of my fuge. My skimmer is a home made Euroreef Clone-- a recirculating skimmer with two Sedra 3500 needlewheel--- pulls out a decent amount of dry skimmate... could always do better.. I just added a filter bag to my sump... it gets what flow doesn't go through my skimmer (my skimmer is fed directly from the tank)

I have been purposely light on my water changes-- to test the DSB and also because of time restraints (just had a new kid)-- 3 boys now.. the oldest is 3 1/2

I'll be sure to update in another month or so...

 

[S.YERGEAU]

Spuds725

i dont whant to sond like an expert but from what i have read in this thread a 5 gal bucket is ok 55 gal so if you have a 135gal thank i think that your set up for the rdsb is not the right size for you in a regular set up is it not 1 pond of sand per gallon

if i was in the same spot as you are i woud think more like somme thing that will hold 150lb of sand like a large rubermaide and keep the pompe that you have for it

maby i am rong but this is what i think

 

[Spuds725]

I've been tagging along with this thread for a while-- never heard that (thumb rule)-- not that I'm discounting the suggestion-- so thanks-- will see what I can fit in my system

 

[S.YERGEAU]

if i remenber well in a thank pepole that have a dsb use 1 pound of live sand per gallon and 1pound of live rock for filtration
a good flow of 33 x thank size or 55x depending on coral
right?????

so if they use 1 pound of sand in a main thank i think that it is the same for a RDSB

it is what i think and i just whant to help

 

[Spuds725]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6976241#post6976241 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by S.YERGEAU
if i remenber well in a thank pepole that have a dsb use 1 pound of live sand per gallon and 1pound of live rock for filtration
a good flow of 33 x thank size or 55x depending on coral
right?????

so if they use 1 pound of sand in a main thank i think that it is the same for a RDSB

it is what i think and i just whant to help

I don't think the rules are quite the same--for a RDSB as a DSB-- for a DSB-- it (the DSB) has a larger surface area and therefore a larger fraction of the sand is oxygenated and therefore unable to support Denitrifying bacteria...

Once again...I'm not disagreeing with you that I may need more sand... just pointing out one of the potential advantages of the RDSB... it may also be that I just need more sand bed surface area for the nitrates to migrate (dilute) into the bed

Anthony pointed out a 55 gallon tank almost entirely filled with sand used to denitrify a 2000 gallon system at a store somewhere--- using your guideline you would need 2000 pounds of sand-- the 55 would only hold roughly 7 cubic feet of sand which would weigh about 700 pounds (approximately)-- this is just some quick math I did in my head--- I think its pretty close though... this is about the same ratio of water to sand that I have (roughly 1 pound per 3 gallons of water)-- of course the nitrates are coming from the feeder (enabler) me...

Thanks for the feedback/advice-- I didn't calculate the above until just now-- perhaps someone else will find this info useful and use no less then the 1:3 (pounds:gallons) ratio I'm using.

Spuds...

 

[S.YERGEAU]

well i will start my rdsb this week end

5g bucket field to 5 inch to the top this will be set up on my 77g reef + 35 gal sump so lets say a total of 90g give and take i will use my fluval 404 to suply the water to the rdsb this way i think that i will have a good control over the flow and whit filter pad in the fluval that i will clean everry 3 days shoud keep stof from entering de rdsb

by the way sorry for my speling i dont right to often in is lanquage

 

[ReefTourist]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6954212#post6954212 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by koden
well, it is smarter to have a larger drain because if you have a lot of pressure, depending on your bucket, it could leak, lid might pop, etc. better to have a bigger drain, unless you get a completely leakproof lid / bucket setup, then you can run it like a canister.

Thanks for the explanation. I'm using quick connect fittings so I just set it up w/ a second drain which seems to work, and will at least lower the pressure that the lid is under if they can't keep up at some point.

 

[reefgeek84]

Not sure if this has been asked but 33 pages is alot to look through...If i have a sump and just fill it with sand, am I creating the same thing?

I am a little confused on the difference between a sump with sand and a bucket with sand, excuse my ignorance and lack of knowledge.

 

[S.YERGEAU]

the rdsb ways is to try to keep all nutien and fish poupe out

this way the sand will not becom a time bom