DSB in a bucket for nitrate control

[Mr Bojangles]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6977795#post6977795 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefgeek84
Not sure if this has been asked but 33 pages is alot to look through...If i have a sump and just fill it with sand, am I creating the same thing?

I am a little confused on the difference between a sump with sand and a bucket with sand, excuse my ignorance and lack of knowledge.

not a prob................... well if you already have a sump, just dumping some sand in here will not help unless you have a section that is large enough and one that you have controll over. you do not want all of he taks wast and junk to settle or the amount of flow over it to wash it away

Now the bucket is mostly used since you can have it set aside and not have to worry as much about it. Now you want to have it plumbed in at the end of your plummin so you get the cleanest water possible, you dont want anything to decay on top of the sand.

 

[skjardel]

Going on 12 weeks

Going on 12 weeks

My Nitrates are currently at 7 vs 50 when I started my RDSB on Dec 6. But since I started the RDSB I had to perform water changes to keep the Nitrates under control and believe the reduction is more due to the water changes then RDSB. I've performed 5 water changes over this period of ~50-70% of the water each time. After each water change the Nitrates dropped considerably and would slowly climb over the next week or two. Since the last few water changes the Nitrates seem to be more stable and are not climbing as fast if at all. I'm not sure if these improvements are related to the RDSB and I'm considering shutting my RDSB off for a a few days to see if anything changes.

Can anyone else share their experience - good or bad?

My RDSB is a 16 quart rectangle plastic trash can. Fitted 3/4" bulkheads at each end. Input hole as high as I could manage and output hole approx 2 inches below input. Filled with oolitic aragonite sand about 2 inches below output hole. Used 30 lbs of sand with 160gph powerhead. This is attached to my sump after the water is filtered through my skimmer. My tank is 75 gallons.

 

[Savatage]

Okay everyone. I am back with a report. First off, when I first started talking about starting a RDSB, many people out here were asking me why I wanted to run a RDSB if my Nitrates were already at ZERO. I said that it couldn't hurt to have that added security. Most agreed.

Here is the issue now. Since I started the RDSB, my Nitrates have gone from ZERO to 15 in a matter of 3 weeks. I have done nothing else different. Still feed the same, etc. Can anyone tell me what the prob is because I have started to lose delicate corals because of this change in the water.

 

[barryhc]

Skjardel, If you turn off the RDSB for several days, the bacteria will die. You would have to empty and clean it before you turn it back on, if you were wanting to.

When you change water, you are also reducing the amount of Nitrite available to the RDSB as food, and limiting it's ability to develop denitrifying bacteria.

Nitrates are not so much of a problem anyway, so much as the algae, that might grow with an abundant supply.

You might want to try reducing your water changes instead, and see if the Nitrates start to rise. Allow them to rise to about 20 PPM before stepping up the water changes and give it another couple of months to develop.

These things can take a while to get going depending on several factors, same as a DSB. My DSB took 6 mos. Are you using RO/DI ?

> Barry

 

[barryhc]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6984762#post6984762 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Savatage
Here is the issue now. Since I started the RDSB, my Nitrates have gone from ZERO to 15 in a matter of 3 weeks. I have done nothing else different. Still feed the same, etc. Can anyone tell me what the prob is because I have started to lose delicate corals because of this change in the water.

Even though you have an established bed in the tank, the bacterial colonies have to develop in the RDSB. It will take a similar amount of time to go through normal cycles. Take some of your tank sand and trade it with your RDSB sand to kick start a bit.

Good Luck !

> Barry

 

[Savatage]

I'll give it a try. For the last few days I have been running my RDSB with an open top, allowing light in. I am going to be dropping to a smaller bucket. My plan is to dig out from the middle of this bucket and put it into a smaller one, then put about 4" of new sand over the top of that. I believe this will contain the toxins from the old bucket.

 

[Spuds725]

Update--

Installed 1/3/06, 50 pounds silica sand (quikrete white play sand)

Running on a 135 gallon tank with about 20 gallon volume in my sump... only a 50 pound silica sand bucket DSB so I think I'm undersized for my volume--

Trates still hovering around 40 ppm, I added a small temporary fuge and some chaeto-- I have a 45 gallon fuge planned.

I have a 15 gallon glass tank that I can use for this that I will likely drill and convert over for a remote DSB...

I've only done a few water changes 10 to 15% of my volume since it was installed...

 

[Marcelog]

Re: Re: Updated updated update

Re: Re: Updated updated update

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6838060#post6838060 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Marcelog
Installed the RDSB back in December with readings 40-50-60. Two weeks ago Nitrates were around 20. This weekend they were somewhere around 15.

I have a 72 gallon bow front with a 15 gallon sump/fuge. The RDSB is a 5 gallon bucket filled 3/4 with sand I picked up from a local reefer that used it to make agrocrete rocks. Pushing water through it with a fluval 404.

As for inhabitants, I've got a Koran Angel which is in the process of converting to his adult colors, a Large tang, 2 percula's, a fat and happy mandarin. Several different shrimp, and an assorted cleanup crew which probably needs to be replenished.

Neither my tank nor sump have a DSB in them. Main tank has a 1-2" layer of CC, and the sump is bare.

Another update. As of today tests are showing about 10.

As of yesterday the reading is about 5.

Marcelo -

 

[barryhc]

A-h-h, the rewards of patience !

> Barry

 

[Bax]

WOW! This is a monster thread,just finished a 3 night read of every post!!

I am sold, an RDSB will be installed in my current system and my system in progress.

 

[Spuds725]

Don't undersize it-- mine is a bit small for my sized tank

 

[mr_fosi]

I, too, just finished an extended read of the entire thread.

I may have missed it somewhere, but did anyone give reason for why waste should not be allowed to gather on the top of the sand? Also, why would mixing such waste into the sand be a bad idea?

I thought that such waste would provide some of the much-needed carbon for the heterotrophs.

 

[Bax]

mr-fosi

If I am reading this correctly, you don't want the waste building and creating a huge bioload in the RDSB. That is an entirely different approach. You only want to "pull" nitrates out of the water column, not degrade detritus.

Spuds725

I am leaning towards a 27 gallon Rubbermaid bin that would give me more of a rectangular shape vessel to flow across longwise and allow for a good 12'+ of sand with 3-4" of water flowing across the top. It'll hold 50-60 pounds of sand or more.

 

[Spuds725]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7124628#post7124628 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bax
27 gallon Rubbermaid bin that would give me more of a rectangular shape vessel to flow across longwise and allow for a good 12'+ of sand with 3-4" of water flowing across the top. It'll hold 50-60 pounds of sand or more.

ALot more-- I put 50 pounds in a bucket right around 5 gallons (maybe a bit more)

 

[Bax]

That's good!

I toss out over 100 pounds of Filpro sand a week from broken bags alone (see occupation) so filling it is no problem

 

[a4twenty]

just thought i would post my results. i read this entire thread over a weekend 1 month ago, then went out bought the parts and set it up. i have a 120G tank with 20G fuge / 20G sump in my basement. in my fuge i have both cheatomorpha and caulerpa racemosa macro algae as well as some neomeris anulatta that just grows wild in the tank. i do monthly 40G water changes, using RO/DI water.

i used 60lb CaribSea Aragamax, sugar sized oolite sand and an old salt bucket. using a 't' and ball valve for control, i borrowed some flow from my main pump. i keep the lid on but not sealed and run about 3" of water.

the results:

i did weekly tests using seachem test kits. prior to installation ( and for the first 3 weeks ) my nitrates stayed at about 20, dropping to 15 after the water change, then back up to 20 the following week. after 3 weeks my results came back as 5. this was 1 week after the water change, i was a little sceptical so i ran the test again and also did the reference test to verify everything was working right. it was, it was actually 5!!!! i was so happy i didn't think life could get any better, until this week when i tested and my nitrates had dropped to 1.5. :rollface: i still don't think i could be happier but we'll see next week.....

here's a pic right after i set it up

 

[Spuds725]

cool... should be 0 soon.

Since I'm running a similar sized tank..

What is the approximate volume of your fuge and how full of macro is it?? (if you could just post dimensions, that would be good)

Also, how would you decribe your bioload??

Thanks in advance...

 

[a4twenty]

my fuge is 18" x 18" x 12" ( approx. 17G ) and has 40lb CaribSea seaflor special grade reef sand ( about 2 - 2 1/2" ) and aprrox. 5 lb LR. the macro was in need of trimming when i started this.

here's a pic

this was taken 3 day's before i installed the RDSB. i left the macro as is, to be sure that the trimming didn't have any affect.

i would say my bio load is low 5 or 6 small fish ( 3" or so ) and some inverts ( shrimp, crabs and snails ) originally i was contemplating using a 27G Rubbermaid but the thought of buying all that oolite sand scared me off. i may still do it but use some silica play sand, others seem to be having results with it. i figured for a first attempt i should use the stuff the experts recommend.

 

[Spuds725]

Thanks for posting back

Always like knowing how my setup compares in trying to decide on the size of stuff... currently trying to decide on either a 29 gallon or a 45gallon (tall) tank for my fuge (will be seperate from my main sump)-- currently running a 4 gallon fuge-- in a bucket fed from my RDSB (also in a bucket)... a 45 Tall is kind of pricey (about $90)..

 

[cwloo]

My version, 15g tank with about 15 inch deep of sand. Added a sulfur at the bottom layer to help with the bacteria grow. It was up about 2 weeks ago.

Note the last layer of sand is seeded from the previous sump.