DSB in Sump

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powertec

New member
I was planning on using a DSB in my sump as opposed to one in the tank.
It will be after the mechanical filtration bags, so my question is there a problem with using sugar sand 6 inches deep, but not use any creatures to stir the sand as it should be cleaned by the mechanical filtration.

I just want to use it for nitrate control.

Thanks
 
your doing more harm than good with that dsb.
Click to expand...
that is not completely true, DSB are GOOD, but deeper is NOT better, the bateria which thrive in the anerobic(little to no oxygen) zones are the bad, what you want are bacteria that live in the anoxic area(some oxygen but not alot), 6 inches is too deep keep it like 4.5"+/-

maybe you could use some nassarius to keep the sand stirred up(oxygenated) IDK if it they will actually work or not:confused: but it may
 
thats what i meant, thanks for clearing that up.

idk 'bout the nassarius snails either, most of the time they sit with their syphons sticking out, maybe half an inch deep, i've never seen them deeper. interesting to find out though.

if you want it deep like you could try using diferentr sized particles, small on bottom large on top, but that might become a detritus trap, and kind of defeats the purpose.

try plants, must safer than the possible anerobes that acompany dsb's. in my oppinion. (and you can sell them later)
 
I don't think remote deep sand beds do much if anything to reduce nitrate. Without benthic fuana and light there just doesn't seem to be enough organic material penetrating to the anoxic areas to be of much use in my opinion. Many have claimed some success with them but that has not ben my experience.

Having said that I'm still skeptical about the so called " new nitrate theory".
 
I am only trying to expand on the tank with the sand bed in the sump, but would i be better off letting the DSB get the water directly from the tank, in which case i would have a clean up crew in the bed, as well as keep it lit.

Or should i clean the water first with a filter sock.

What i am trying to do is have a tank with a bare bottom in the display, but have the benefits of a DSB in the sump.
So what would be the best way of accomplishing this?

Thank you for all the replies so far, all help is appreciated.
 
I wouldn't go taking the "new nitrate theory" as absolute fact just yet. That article was just one persons opnion on the subject.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14605150#post14605150 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ctenophors rule
yes their is a problem, read the new nitrate theory just posted.

your doing more harm than good with that dsb.
Click to expand...

THe "new" nitrate theory is nowhere near new. The fact that a bed can be too deep and develop oxygen free zones is nothing new. I have seen tanks ran with DSB, SSB, BB, and even plenums and RF UGs. THere are just too many different things going into a tank to point to a particular tank and say it runs this way and works or crashes and draw solid conclusions.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14608412#post14608412 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ctenophors rule
why?

it explains all my concerns, but what are your fears?
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:p I'm not fearful of it. It ain't new and the characterization as a new nitrate theory with a new order of bacteria is highly presumptuous and inaccurate. The post has inaccuracies in it leading to echoes such as deep sand beds are bad,that sand be is doing more harm than good,etc and plenums are good which is not the case in my opinion. There are thousands of pages on deep sand beds and still the best technique is debated. Most techniques work with proper care and attention and folks should not start to remove their sand beds based on one highly opinionated article and thread. Nor should they avoid planning aquariums with deep beds or bare bottoms or moderately deep beds with fine or coarser grains depending on the types of creatures they intend to keep. They will all work, with good care. I have responded in a bit more depth on the noted thread.
 
don't have a DSB anywhere (BB all the way with) but do come across lots of posts of the DSB in the sump.

With a BB in the display, good flow to keep detritus in suspension until filtered out you'd be removing a lot of what would be breaking down and a DSB would need to process. Think a step backwards having the raw water depositing the detritus onto your sumps DSB. Still would have some snails to keep things stirred up.
 
IMO, DSB is good for certain points but leaving it for too long it becomes problem as the sand won't be sitting idle: flows or fish or cleaning... will disturb the DSB if the DSB is old enough you would have lots of ammonia released to the water. Now days there are many better ways to reduce nitrate w/o hassle of DSB so why bother? or remote DSB is the way to go because you can just disconnect and clean once in awhile.
 
Plenums are not overlooked. They have just been passed by with new approaches and after many have had experiences using them.. There has been much debate on their utility vs other methods. Generally the are not a preferred method . They still have advocates ,however.
 
i still have a jaubert tank 300g but modified with a solid calcium reactor.. results have been fantastic, stability, safety, biodiversity, and near zeo colors are result, the big secret to the jaubert method is not to overpopulate in fish...and certenly not anthias or other eatmaniacs...
since i am moving and planning a slightly bigger tank i am drawing out a jaubert sump... since i love the results it gives me..also gonioporas are within reach..


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14726443#post14726443 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ktweddle
have a look at Dr.Jaubert's system used at the Monaco Aquarium. It employs a plenum for under your DSB. His ideas have been around for a long time and seem to get overlooked by the Modern Aquarist for some reason.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2002/feature.htm
Click to expand...
 
I employ a 50 gallon remote plenum on my 210 gallon reef with shallow sand bed with no ill effects so far. But I can always remove it if I have problems. With that being said a DSB in the sump would be easier to remove than trying to get all the sand out of the main tank. I would stick to a 1â€"œ2 mm diameter grain size like the "CaribSea Seaflor Special Grade Reef Sand" no deeper than 4 inches. But that is just my opinion.
 
I have a DSB in my sump and it's about 17 years old. It hasn't always been in the sump though. I don't treat my DSB like most people. I run the display BB. It drains to the skimmer, then to 100 micron filter socks. Then the water reaches the sand bed. Very little detritus builds up in the sand. The only thing I keep on top of the sand is macroalgae. Every few months I vacuum the sand bed with a gravel vac. The water isn't what I would call squeaky clean, but it's far from the swamp water you would get out of most DSB's if you vacuumed them. I don't have much of a cleanup crew. I have a few turbo snails that got to big for the display, about 4 hermits, and pods. I couldn't keep many sand dwelling critters, because they would starve.

The only drawback for me, with having the sand bed in the sump, is that it can be difficult to vacuum.
 
I ran a dsb for a while in my sump as well as did a ton of reading about them. I read an article about an older German fellow who swore by DSB's. His article was about how people don't let them mature enough. He said to not keep any kind of crabs or carnivorous creatures in there. No fish, no sand sifting stars. He said to keep some nassarius and cerith snails. They help sift the sand and eat some algae and some crap accumulated but wont eat the pods and things which help the sand bed. Also he suggested using a small power head to keep water moving in the dsb compartment as well as keeping the detritus suspended to run through the system and be picked out by the skimmer or other filtration equipment on the tank.

As far as filter socks I say use them, I have recently started using them and love them. They are a pain changing daily but worth the trouble imo. I made my own, made 10 for 5 bucks.
Here's the link to the diy site http://randystacye.com/diy_filter_sock.htm
 
Reread the opening post. If you are dosing a carbon source
(vodka,sugar, vinegar) with a deep sand bed theiriis a risk that the carbon will penetrate into areas of the sand without oxygen. In this case when the bacteria exhaust oxygen in the waer and limited nitrate supplied oxygen, they will turn to sulfate(SO4) to get the energy they need to oxidize the carbon. This process produces hydrogen sulfide which is toxic.
 
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