Dudester’s 450g corner in-wall and tank room – help with design
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Dudester
Premium Member
I've been thinking about it more and I'm really excited about the proposition of storing the water in the attic. The RO/DI is a done deal, but the only downside to storing the salt water there would be the increased water temperature. If my home is as efficient as I think it will be, the attic temp will only get to be about 90 degrees max. Assuming the tank temperature in the summer will run around 80 degrees, the 10 degree difference on a 10% water change probably wouldn't be detrimental. I could always add it slowly and allow the chiller to keep up.
Here's what the tank room looks like these days with the walls and door in place.
The walls are made of a material called DensArmor which is a paperless product that's more moisture resistant than green board. The walls will be painted and sealed with an epoxy for additional moisture resistance. I'm still waiting for them to finish out the floor and complete the floor drain so I can acid wash and apply the 2-part epoxy to the floor as well. And I don't know what that wooden cube is, but it's pretty cool, almost like an M.C. Escher painting when you see it up close.
Here's what the tank room looks like these days with the walls and door in place.
The walls are made of a material called DensArmor which is a paperless product that's more moisture resistant than green board. The walls will be painted and sealed with an epoxy for additional moisture resistance. I'm still waiting for them to finish out the floor and complete the floor drain so I can acid wash and apply the 2-part epoxy to the floor as well. And I don't know what that wooden cube is, but it's pretty cool, almost like an M.C. Escher painting when you see it up close.
jnarowe
New member
DensArmor is a great product. I wish it was out when I did my tank room.
The bonus of storing your water at warmer temps. is that you can run 100 - 200 feet of supply line coiled in one of the tanks before it gets to your RO/DI unit. This will bring up the supply water temp. and give you better filter efficiency.
BTW, may tank room gets above 80F regularly and my SW holding tank never reads higher than about 74F, so it is possible that your holding tanks will be less than room temp.
This idea reminds me of a buddy's house in SF that had giant tubes of water going from the bottom sub-ter floor to the roof inside the dwelling. These were clear and completely filled with the idea of equalizing temperatures throughout the 4 story home. Strange thing to install in an earthquake area, but they never were a problem.
The bonus of storing your water at warmer temps. is that you can run 100 - 200 feet of supply line coiled in one of the tanks before it gets to your RO/DI unit. This will bring up the supply water temp. and give you better filter efficiency.
BTW, may tank room gets above 80F regularly and my SW holding tank never reads higher than about 74F, so it is possible that your holding tanks will be less than room temp.
This idea reminds me of a buddy's house in SF that had giant tubes of water going from the bottom sub-ter floor to the roof inside the dwelling. These were clear and completely filled with the idea of equalizing temperatures throughout the 4 story home. Strange thing to install in an earthquake area, but they never were a problem.
Chrisrush
New member
Temperature control Nick. His attic will be pretty stable in terms of temperature as opposed to outside where the temp can vary from 30 to 105 F and 10-80 % humidity throughout the year.
Those are great ideas about storing the water up in the attic Mike. Any way to run the water change water through the chiller? That way it comes in already pre-chilled. Of course, you are right that a 10 degree F change won't make that much of a difference.
Make sure your builder is aware that you plan on keeping a lot of extra weight in the attic due to the chiller and the mixing tanks.
Those are great ideas about storing the water up in the attic Mike. Any way to run the water change water through the chiller? That way it comes in already pre-chilled. Of course, you are right that a 10 degree F change won't make that much of a difference.
Make sure your builder is aware that you plan on keeping a lot of extra weight in the attic due to the chiller and the mixing tanks.
Dudester
Premium Member
GSMguy - The chiller won't be installed outside because of one reason and one reason alone. I am mentally challenged. I had the forethought to utilize the waste water from the RO/DI, which is already plumbed to drain outside where it will feed the flower gardens, but I wasn't sharp enough to plan for plumbing through the walls to accomodate the chiller. Now that the walls are already in place, I don't think I'll be able to convince my wife that it's a good idea to tear them out and run more plumbing through to the outside.
As for the chiller burning up, I don't think I'll have to worry about that. The TradeWind chiller has a hard wired controller unit. I'll set my Aquatronica controller to shut off the chiller at 78 degrees, and I'll set the chiller's internal controller to turn it off at around 75 degrees. If the pump fails, the chiller will continue to cool the water contained within the unit, and that water will reach 75 within a minute or two and shut the chiller down.
jnarowe - Good point about the water being cooler than room temperature, I knew that would be the case but I was considering worst-case scenarios.
Chrisrush - You nailed it, the weight is my only concern at this point. I spoke with the builder and currently there is no way to support the holding containers. He's looking into what it will take for that to change and he'll get back to me. I really hope this works out but my builder isn't too enthusiastic about storing 150 gallons of water in the attic. But people put 100 gallon water heaters in attics all the time, so I'm not overly concerned.
As for the chiller burning up, I don't think I'll have to worry about that. The TradeWind chiller has a hard wired controller unit. I'll set my Aquatronica controller to shut off the chiller at 78 degrees, and I'll set the chiller's internal controller to turn it off at around 75 degrees. If the pump fails, the chiller will continue to cool the water contained within the unit, and that water will reach 75 within a minute or two and shut the chiller down.
jnarowe - Good point about the water being cooler than room temperature, I knew that would be the case but I was considering worst-case scenarios.
Chrisrush - You nailed it, the weight is my only concern at this point. I spoke with the builder and currently there is no way to support the holding containers. He's looking into what it will take for that to change and he'll get back to me. I really hope this works out but my builder isn't too enthusiastic about storing 150 gallons of water in the attic. But people put 100 gallon water heaters in attics all the time, so I'm not overly concerned.
melev
Well-known member
If you are going to have stuff up there, you may want a few plugs and a light switch or two.
You could always get a cute little chiller for your saltwater mixing barrel. TECO was just here (btw, they do make bigger chillers now, and are about to hit the market), and they have chillers with a spot to install a heater inside. So you plumb the chiller to the barrel, and in the winter it could warm the water and in the summer cool the water, so it is always ready to use.
The drawback, of course, is the risk that the barrel overflow or burst, flooding the floor which is your ceiling. It would be best to come up with a drain pan-type scenario, with the pan draining to a safe spot (a plumbing vent line nearby) to keep the walls and sheetrock dry.
You could always get a cute little chiller for your saltwater mixing barrel. TECO was just here (btw, they do make bigger chillers now, and are about to hit the market), and they have chillers with a spot to install a heater inside. So you plumb the chiller to the barrel, and in the winter it could warm the water and in the summer cool the water, so it is always ready to use.
The drawback, of course, is the risk that the barrel overflow or burst, flooding the floor which is your ceiling. It would be best to come up with a drain pan-type scenario, with the pan draining to a safe spot (a plumbing vent line nearby) to keep the walls and sheetrock dry.
Dudester
Premium Member
There's already a light in that space, but an outlet is a good idea.
I'll look at TECO's product when it's available but I think it will be hard to beat the TradeWind. It's a solid product with a proven record and certainly not a new release. Dropping a heater into my mixing barrel is not a big deal at all, but I doubt I'll want another chiller to deal with. But I enjoy this 'outside the box' thinking!
Seriously dude, what do you think the chances are of a solid barrel bursting? Less than a tank leaking at a seam, I would assume. Now a slow leak from a bulkhead or plumbing fitting is another thing, and I would certainly place the container on top of a pan with a drain at the bottom. I would plumb pipe down into the tank room which would empty into the utility sink, and this should allow for any fitting leaks that could occur.
I'll look at TECO's product when it's available but I think it will be hard to beat the TradeWind. It's a solid product with a proven record and certainly not a new release. Dropping a heater into my mixing barrel is not a big deal at all, but I doubt I'll want another chiller to deal with. But I enjoy this 'outside the box' thinking!
Seriously dude, what do you think the chances are of a solid barrel bursting? Less than a tank leaking at a seam, I would assume. Now a slow leak from a bulkhead or plumbing fitting is another thing, and I would certainly place the container on top of a pan with a drain at the bottom. I would plumb pipe down into the tank room which would empty into the utility sink, and this should allow for any fitting leaks that could occur.
StripestheEel
Premium Member
Cant wait for this to mature.
Im doing something similar as I will be building a new house in the coming months.
Im doing something similar as I will be building a new house in the coming months.
Chrisrush
New member
Yup, I'm a genius. I'm sure one day I'll be asking you similar questions. I was talking to my father in law the other day, and he was talking about how much wasted space is in the attic and how he would like to convert his attic into an office. Of course, re-enforcing the floor is a huge concern. I'd like to get some of the stuff out of our attic, but I've got no where to put that junk.
By the way, how easy will it be to lift a 1 HP chiller into the attic?
Dudester
Premium Member
Now those are odds I can live with!<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13192957#post13192957 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
Plumbing cracking and leaking - one in 10 years probably.
StripestheEel - Thanks for chiming in, and don't hold out on all of your great ideas, let me know what you think.
Chrisrush - Getting the chiller (any any other equipment for that matter) into the attic will be a piece of cake. Like I mentioned, the access door to the attic is directly off the upstairs game room. No stairs, no lifting, I can just drag it on a dolly or wheel cart. I know the attic platform will hold the 100+ pound chiller with ease, but if this water storage idea is going to work, there will have to be some substantial reinforcement. My superintendant is looking at the options for me and I'll share his conclusion when it is known to me.
Bax
Premium Member
I don't know J. After four years of reading your posts I have a fairly good idea of just what kind of out of the box thinking nut job you are. And I mean that in the most complementary way.
... You crazy nut ball you!
Dude I am like'n the idea of storing water in the attic. More room for suff in the equipment room!
Dudester
Premium Member
Thanks for asking Chris. After doing all the research necessary, it turns out I would definitely have to add steel in order to support larger water mixing/holding tanks in the "attic," so that idea has been nixed and I'm only going to keep the chiller up there. Oh well, it was a fun exercise anyway.
The house is moving along nicely. Most of the cabinets are in and they're preparing to paint and stain. They're supposed to complete the smoothing out of the concrete floor in the tank room this week so I can coat it with 2-part epoxy. Once that's done I can move the tank in.
The tank is being built by A.G.E. as we speak. By the time it's finished, the tank room will be ready for it, and I'll go pick it up along with the stand and sump they're making for me. I'll put everything in place then conceal/protect it all as stated before. At that point the trim guys can add the cabinetry and last column around the tank.
I'll get pics once there's more to share, but nothing else has happened with the tank room since my last update.
The house is moving along nicely. Most of the cabinets are in and they're preparing to paint and stain. They're supposed to complete the smoothing out of the concrete floor in the tank room this week so I can coat it with 2-part epoxy. Once that's done I can move the tank in.
The tank is being built by A.G.E. as we speak. By the time it's finished, the tank room will be ready for it, and I'll go pick it up along with the stand and sump they're making for me. I'll put everything in place then conceal/protect it all as stated before. At that point the trim guys can add the cabinetry and last column around the tank.
I'll get pics once there's more to share, but nothing else has happened with the tank room since my last update.
bleedingthought
New member
Man, I'd love to see pics of the house, though. 
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