Duplex sump concept
- Thread starter Indermark
- Start date
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11081690#post11081690 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by snorvich
This is what I am planning. Any issues? Will be fed from the sump with an Eheim 1250 (300 gallons per hour). Thanks in advance.
I assume the water enters on the right and returns to the display tank from the left?
The hole in the upper left corner should be used as an emergency overflow and the drain from the display tank should flow directly into the protein skimmer in the first section (on the left) if the protein skimmer design allows for it.
The dam and weir baffles look a little high and would work better if reversed. They look like they may limit your water overflow capacity. You don't want water to enter or leave the benthic zone via the bottom. You want the water to flow over a partition so bubbles can pop, and the water can travel across the surface, as passive flow. Otherwise, you will have all of the difficulties that come with an undergravel filter, namely trapped detritus.
Your current design will introduce bubbles to the benthic zone at the influent end, and trap detritus at the effluent end. It also allows for splashing and bubble introduction at the left end where the water enters the pump intake, unless your auto top-off system is good, and the water doesn't fall more than an inch as it travels over the glass partition.
You should add two more dams on the inside (Duplex side) of the sump. This will give you a proper bubble trap and water introduction. The water will then travel, over-under-over, instead of your current over-under configuration.
I don't use glass partitions as they limit the amount of water available to the pump, should you have a top-off deficit. I find eggcrate walls are adequate for keeping the macroalgae in check, and the Duplex structure and macroalgae to be enough to pop bubbles.
Keeping it a simple, modular design, allows for ease in improving it as technology and methodology changes. The one area that benefits from a glass partition is the first compartment where the protein skimmer is located, as it assures that incoming water is processed in a first-in-first-out manner. It also segregates settled detritus and aiptasia.
Glass baffles limit your flexibility in adjusting the water level as well. Eggcrate baffles allow you to use the float valve to regulate the operating water level.
Make sure your sump can hold the excess water from the plumbing, protein skimmer, overflow box, back-siphoned water from return line and top 1/2" - 1" of the display tank in the event of power failure. Always test your system with a mock power outage to see what happens (where the water goes) and plan accordingly.
Mr.Wilson,
Thanks for the comments.
The input to this refugium comes from the chamber in the sump which is post skimmer and returns to the sump just before the pump which returns to the aquarium. This refugium is gravity fed so that if the feed pump stops, everything stops. It is 12 inches above the sump.
I have tested the sump for power outage conditions (which occur when I do water changes) and there is no problem there.
I will add the extra partition so the water goes over-under-over.
Any other comments will be appreciated.
Thanks for the comments.
The input to this refugium comes from the chamber in the sump which is post skimmer and returns to the sump just before the pump which returns to the aquarium. This refugium is gravity fed so that if the feed pump stops, everything stops. It is 12 inches above the sump.
I have tested the sump for power outage conditions (which occur when I do water changes) and there is no problem there.
I will add the extra partition so the water goes over-under-over.
Any other comments will be appreciated.
mark caruana
New member
Re; duplex refugium
Re; duplex refugium
Mr. Wilson,
I'd like your opinion regarding my duplex 'fuge. I set it up about 3 months ago and I'm wondering if I should syphon the bottom because of the build up of detritus?
There is an abundance of life, including 'pods of every size, worms and worm tracks through the detritus, mysis shrimp, and tunicates. I feel to syphon would be counter productive. The cheato on the top layer is full of little brittle stars and bristle worms and grows quite well.
I've attached a photo so you can see the build up of detritus.
Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
Re; duplex refugium
Mr. Wilson,
I'd like your opinion regarding my duplex 'fuge. I set it up about 3 months ago and I'm wondering if I should syphon the bottom because of the build up of detritus?
There is an abundance of life, including 'pods of every size, worms and worm tracks through the detritus, mysis shrimp, and tunicates. I feel to syphon would be counter productive. The cheato on the top layer is full of little brittle stars and bristle worms and grows quite well.
I've attached a photo so you can see the build up of detritus.
Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
mark caruana
New member
duplex fuge
duplex fuge
Hello Tasos, I was able to submit photos to my gallery but not to the message. (I'm new here) I have some pics that I'll try to submit again.
Thanks for your reply.
duplex fuge
Hello Tasos, I was able to submit photos to my gallery but not to the message. (I'm new here) I have some pics that I'll try to submit again.
Thanks for your reply.
mark caruana
New member
duplex refugium
duplex refugium
OK, I've figured it out. Here is my set-up. My skimmer feeds the refugium. As you can see, I have about 4 or 5 inches of rubble over the benthic zone and the cheato on top of the rubble. My nitrates have slowly started creeping down but still around 10 ppm. To syphon would mean removing all the rubble, but I'll do it if I have to.
I have no mechanical filtration and no chemical filtration either.
Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
duplex refugium
OK, I've figured it out. Here is my set-up. My skimmer feeds the refugium. As you can see, I have about 4 or 5 inches of rubble over the benthic zone and the cheato on top of the rubble. My nitrates have slowly started creeping down but still around 10 ppm. To syphon would mean removing all the rubble, but I'll do it if I have to.
I have no mechanical filtration and no chemical filtration either.
Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
mark caruana
New member
Ya, I wondered that myself. Though to be honest there really isn't much debris on the rocks themselves, and my skimmer has an MJ 1200 pumping the water through.
Considering this, why else do you guys think there's too much rock? I personally don't think there is too much, but I would really like to hear some others' opinions.
Thanks for your replies Tasos and snorvich
Considering this, why else do you guys think there's too much rock? I personally don't think there is too much, but I would really like to hear some others' opinions.
Thanks for your replies Tasos and snorvich
stan the man
New member
Mr Wilson,
Thanks for expanding on an idea that I have long wanted to try, but avoided due to lack of knowledge on my part. I am designing a 135/150g sytem (probably a year or so out on this) that will be fish only(although I may sneak some soft corals in there), and want to incorporate this type of filter system. I will be using one side of the display for an internal overflow wall, in which I am leaning toward a DSB, with skimmer flow/return pump matched at around 600-700gph. If I need more circulation in the display, I'll add an enclosed loop.
My question is in regards to the DSB...If I have a 3"x18" by 18-24" deep overflow area in the display tank, what kind of depth would I employ there? With the use of a Durso standpipe near the top of the overflow, will flow over the DSB be sufficient enough?
Thanks again for taking the time to contribute to this post!
Thanks for expanding on an idea that I have long wanted to try, but avoided due to lack of knowledge on my part. I am designing a 135/150g sytem (probably a year or so out on this) that will be fish only(although I may sneak some soft corals in there), and want to incorporate this type of filter system. I will be using one side of the display for an internal overflow wall, in which I am leaning toward a DSB, with skimmer flow/return pump matched at around 600-700gph. If I need more circulation in the display, I'll add an enclosed loop.
My question is in regards to the DSB...If I have a 3"x18" by 18-24" deep overflow area in the display tank, what kind of depth would I employ there? With the use of a Durso standpipe near the top of the overflow, will flow over the DSB be sufficient enough?
Thanks again for taking the time to contribute to this post!
stan the man
New member
Mark,
How deep is your macro algae layer which sits on top of the rubble? I thought the rock layer looked pretty deep too, but if the water flow is there, I don't see anything wrong with it as is. I'd just make sure that the reason detritus isn't settling isn't due to low circulation levels down in the rock.
I've also got an Aqua-C Remora, and will be using a similar plumbing method to yours on both my current 75g and the new tank I'm starting to design.
How deep is your macro algae layer which sits on top of the rubble? I thought the rock layer looked pretty deep too, but if the water flow is there, I don't see anything wrong with it as is. I'd just make sure that the reason detritus isn't settling isn't due to low circulation levels down in the rock.
I've also got an Aqua-C Remora, and will be using a similar plumbing method to yours on both my current 75g and the new tank I'm starting to design.
mark caruana
New member
Stan,
the macro layer is about 4" to 5". The refuge is 12" deep; macro-4 to 5", rubble 4 to 5" and benthic zone 2 1/2" deep. I piled the rock up to the surface where the skimmer feeds to slow the flow going downward because, like Mr. Wilson said, water will find the path of least resistance. And the flow is definitely slow below the rubble.
the macro layer is about 4" to 5". The refuge is 12" deep; macro-4 to 5", rubble 4 to 5" and benthic zone 2 1/2" deep. I piled the rock up to the surface where the skimmer feeds to slow the flow going downward because, like Mr. Wilson said, water will find the path of least resistance. And the flow is definitely slow below the rubble.
Malifluous
New member
Mark, I had a similar set up. It was an ongoing problem for me cos i could not acess the benthic layer. I also had my return pump there. I had to pull all the rocks out each time there was a problem. I siphoned out detritus from the bottom about 4-5 times in 2 years . Nitrates were always about 0-5ppm with my tests.
mark caruana
New member
That really sucks to hear. I guess I under-estimated the importance of accessing the benthic zone.
How did you finally resolve the issue Malifluous?
How did you finally resolve the issue Malifluous?
Gaspar's Duplex Sump Project
Gaspar's Duplex Sump Project
Here is another duplex sump project that is well on it's way thanks to all of the
contributors to this fine forum and with special thanks to our esteemed Mr. Wilson.
I have been keeping salt water tanks for years and this is my first "graduation"
into the world of under tank sump design and installation.
Here are two design sketches to introduce the project followed by some photos.
This is the sump - in progress - set into the cabinet that I built into the wall behind
the display tank. You can see the Aqua C EV-120, the Mag 5 for the skimmer
[behind the CV-120 in the sump] and the Enheim 1262 return pump.
The display tank is a 40 gal breeder. This shows the inflow/return arrangement.
:fish2: :fish2: So here come the questions and open invitation for comments:
1. The tank to sump inflow pipe is 1 1/4". Is an expectation of +/- 700 gph
inflow to the sump realistic?
2. The Mag 5 running the EV-120 should pump about 500 gph, which per the design
sketches above will bypass the bentic zone/fuge area of the sump. This should leave
a flow of +/- 200 gph flowing through the bentic zone/fuge area. This should leave
the 40 gal display tank cycling 15 - 20 times per hour through the sump and 5 or
so times per hour through the bentic zone and fuge. Sound reasonable?
3. I bought a SCWD to alternate the outflow back into the tank through the two 3/4"
outflow fittings that can be seen in the tank photo above. The Enheim 1262 will be
pushing a lot of water. Possibly 700 gph back into the 40 gal tank. Is this too much
blast out of only one 3/4" outflow at a time? Also the tank is in our living room. Will
the SCWD alternating all this gph 'woosh/woosh' make a lot of distracting noise?
4. Now about AIPTASIA... A friend gave me ten or fifteen lbs of nice looking live rock
and some "starter sand" from his tank. I added two 25 lb bags of 'live' pink aragonite
sand. The new sand bed and these live rocks have been in the display tank with
25 gallons of water, compact floresents on timers and a gentle [80 gph] pump
slowly flowing the water around for the last three or four weeks. Aiptasia has
popped up all over the live rocks. Should I go through the process of killing all of
these things one at a time or just get rid of the "infected" live rocks before running
this new tank through the new sump?
One last question for this time around:
5. Has anyone out there ever set up a sump and display tank system that has no
live rock in the display tank? I had a 26 display tank that was pretty darn robust
for years [until it biologically crashed a few months ago while I was away on vacation!]
with only a beautiful coral collection and no live rock at all.
That tank had no protein skimmer. Only an under-gravel filter and a Wisper 60
hanging on the back. I would really like to set up this up this duplex sump and
new tank display tank the same way.
Here is a photo this previous tank. Thanks for reading all of this.
Gaspar's Duplex Sump Project
Here is another duplex sump project that is well on it's way thanks to all of the
contributors to this fine forum and with special thanks to our esteemed Mr. Wilson.
I have been keeping salt water tanks for years and this is my first "graduation"
into the world of under tank sump design and installation.
Here are two design sketches to introduce the project followed by some photos.
This is the sump - in progress - set into the cabinet that I built into the wall behind
the display tank. You can see the Aqua C EV-120, the Mag 5 for the skimmer
[behind the CV-120 in the sump] and the Enheim 1262 return pump.
The display tank is a 40 gal breeder. This shows the inflow/return arrangement.
:fish2: :fish2: So here come the questions and open invitation for comments:
1. The tank to sump inflow pipe is 1 1/4". Is an expectation of +/- 700 gph
inflow to the sump realistic?
2. The Mag 5 running the EV-120 should pump about 500 gph, which per the design
sketches above will bypass the bentic zone/fuge area of the sump. This should leave
a flow of +/- 200 gph flowing through the bentic zone/fuge area. This should leave
the 40 gal display tank cycling 15 - 20 times per hour through the sump and 5 or
so times per hour through the bentic zone and fuge. Sound reasonable?
3. I bought a SCWD to alternate the outflow back into the tank through the two 3/4"
outflow fittings that can be seen in the tank photo above. The Enheim 1262 will be
pushing a lot of water. Possibly 700 gph back into the 40 gal tank. Is this too much
blast out of only one 3/4" outflow at a time? Also the tank is in our living room. Will
the SCWD alternating all this gph 'woosh/woosh' make a lot of distracting noise?
4. Now about AIPTASIA... A friend gave me ten or fifteen lbs of nice looking live rock
and some "starter sand" from his tank. I added two 25 lb bags of 'live' pink aragonite
sand. The new sand bed and these live rocks have been in the display tank with
25 gallons of water, compact floresents on timers and a gentle [80 gph] pump
slowly flowing the water around for the last three or four weeks. Aiptasia has
popped up all over the live rocks. Should I go through the process of killing all of
these things one at a time or just get rid of the "infected" live rocks before running
this new tank through the new sump?
One last question for this time around:
5. Has anyone out there ever set up a sump and display tank system that has no
live rock in the display tank? I had a 26 display tank that was pretty darn robust
for years [until it biologically crashed a few months ago while I was away on vacation!]
with only a beautiful coral collection and no live rock at all.
That tank had no protein skimmer. Only an under-gravel filter and a Wisper 60
hanging on the back. I would really like to set up this up this duplex sump and
new tank display tank the same way.
Here is a photo this previous tank. Thanks for reading all of this.
Gaspar's Duplex Sump Project
Gaspar's Duplex Sump Project
Here is another duplex sump project that is well on it's way thanks to all of the
contributors to this fine forum and with special thanks to our esteemed Mr. Wilson.
I have been keeping salt water tanks for years and this is my first "graduation"
into the world of under tank sump design and installation.
Here are two design sketches to introduce the project followed by some photos.
This is the sump - in progress - set into the cabinet that I built into the wall behind
the display tank. You can see the Aqua C EV-120, the Mag 5 for the skimmer
[behind the CV-120 in the sump] and the Enheim 1262 return pump.
The display tank is a 40 gal breeder. This shows the inflow/return arrangement.
:fish2: :fish2: So here come the questions and open invitation for comments:
1. The tank to sump inflow pipe is 1 1/4". Is an expectation of +/- 700 gph
inflow to the sump realistic?
2. The Mag 5 running the EV-120 should pump about 500 gph, which per the design
sketches above will bypass the bentic zone/fuge area of the sump. This should leave
a flow of +/- 200 gph flowing through the bentic zone/fuge area. This should leave
the 40 gal display tank cycling 15 - 20 times per hour through the sump and 5 or
so times per hour through the bentic zone and fuge. Sound reasonable?
3. I bought a SCWD to alternate the outflow back into the tank through the two 3/4"
outflow fittings that can be seen in the tank photo above. The Enheim 1262 will be
pushing a lot of water. Possibly 700 gph back into the 40 gal tank. Is this too much
blast out of only one 3/4" outflow at a time? Also the tank is in our living room. Will
the SCWD alternating all this gph 'woosh/woosh' make a lot of distracting noise?
4. Now about AIPTASIA... A friend gave me ten or fifteen lbs of nice looking live rock
and some "starter sand" from his tank. I added two 25 lb bags of 'live' pink aragonite
sand. The new sand bed and these live rocks have been in the display tank with
25 gallons of water, compact floresents on timers and a gentle [80 gph] pump
slowly flowing the water around for the last three or four weeks. Aiptasia has
popped up all over the live rocks. Should I go through the process of killing all of
these things one at a time or just get rid of the "infected" live rocks before running
this new tank through the new sump?
One last question for this time around:
5. Has anyone out there ever set up a sump and display tank system that has no
live rock in the display tank? I had a 26 display tank that was pretty darn robust
for years [until it biologically crashed a few months ago while I was away on vacation!]
with only a beautiful coral collection and no live rock at all.
That tank had no protein skimmer. Only an under-gravel filter and a Wisper 60
hanging on the back. I would really like to set up this up this duplex sump and
new tank display tank the same way.
Here is a photo this previous tank. Thanks for reading all of this.
Gaspar's Duplex Sump Project
Here is another duplex sump project that is well on it's way thanks to all of the
contributors to this fine forum and with special thanks to our esteemed Mr. Wilson.
I have been keeping salt water tanks for years and this is my first "graduation"
into the world of under tank sump design and installation.
Here are two design sketches to introduce the project followed by some photos.
This is the sump - in progress - set into the cabinet that I built into the wall behind
the display tank. You can see the Aqua C EV-120, the Mag 5 for the skimmer
[behind the CV-120 in the sump] and the Enheim 1262 return pump.
The display tank is a 40 gal breeder. This shows the inflow/return arrangement.
:fish2: :fish2: So here come the questions and open invitation for comments:
1. The tank to sump inflow pipe is 1 1/4". Is an expectation of +/- 700 gph
inflow to the sump realistic?
2. The Mag 5 running the EV-120 should pump about 500 gph, which per the design
sketches above will bypass the bentic zone/fuge area of the sump. This should leave
a flow of +/- 200 gph flowing through the bentic zone/fuge area. This should leave
the 40 gal display tank cycling 15 - 20 times per hour through the sump and 5 or
so times per hour through the bentic zone and fuge. Sound reasonable?
3. I bought a SCWD to alternate the outflow back into the tank through the two 3/4"
outflow fittings that can be seen in the tank photo above. The Enheim 1262 will be
pushing a lot of water. Possibly 700 gph back into the 40 gal tank. Is this too much
blast out of only one 3/4" outflow at a time? Also the tank is in our living room. Will
the SCWD alternating all this gph 'woosh/woosh' make a lot of distracting noise?
4. Now about AIPTASIA... A friend gave me ten or fifteen lbs of nice looking live rock
and some "starter sand" from his tank. I added two 25 lb bags of 'live' pink aragonite
sand. The new sand bed and these live rocks have been in the display tank with
25 gallons of water, compact floresents on timers and a gentle [80 gph] pump
slowly flowing the water around for the last three or four weeks. Aiptasia has
popped up all over the live rocks. Should I go through the process of killing all of
these things one at a time or just get rid of the "infected" live rocks before running
this new tank through the new sump?
One last question for this time around:
5. Has anyone out there ever set up a sump and display tank system that has no
live rock in the display tank? I had a 26 display tank that was pretty darn robust
for years [until it biologically crashed a few months ago while I was away on vacation!]
with only a beautiful coral collection and no live rock at all.
That tank had no protein skimmer. Only an under-gravel filter and a Wisper 60
hanging on the back. I would really like to set up this up this duplex sump and
new tank display tank the same way.
Here is a photo this previous tank. Thanks for reading all of this.
stan the man
New member
I'm in the process of completing a 10g nano which will have an internal refugium using this method. I have a wall about 5" from one end with an overflow going into the first chamber (3" wide or so) where it flows through some floss and a Purigen filter pad. It will the go down to an opening and flow up over a bubble trap (another divider about 3/4" from the side of this overflow chamber) and into the refugium area. I am looking at 4-5" of sand, 2 inches or so to an eggcrate shelf, then a layer of live rock rubble with macro on top. The refugium area itself will only be about 5" wide by 5" long. The final chamber will have a powerhead intake which will then return to the display side at a flow of around 130gph.
The display itself is 15"x10"x12" high, and lit by two 18 watt CF bulbs. The refugium will be lit by a 13 watt CF desklamp (with daylight bulb) on an alternating cycle.
I plan on housing a pistol shrimp/goby combo and some zoos, mushrooms, and maybe some green star polyps.
If anyone's interested, please tell me how to post a pic...
The display itself is 15"x10"x12" high, and lit by two 18 watt CF bulbs. The refugium will be lit by a 13 watt CF desklamp (with daylight bulb) on an alternating cycle.
I plan on housing a pistol shrimp/goby combo and some zoos, mushrooms, and maybe some green star polyps.
If anyone's interested, please tell me how to post a pic...
Similar threads
