Would low doh cause this?:
Bought a pair of tank raised ocellaris clowns and put them in my quarantine tank. They seemed very nervous for the first couple days, but by day 2/3 they were swimming around as you would expect. However, on the evening of day 4, i noticed the male of the pair was breathing very rapidly. Thinking this was not normal I tried making sure there was enough surface agitation etc. There wasn't really any other symptoms at this stage so i didn't really have anything else to go on. So other than doing a 30% water change I decided to leave them be and check on them later. Day 5, the female now had very rapid breathing as well and the male was spending long periods of time lying on his side on the sand. At first I though brooklynella. But I couldn't see any white on either of them. At this time I couldn't go to any LFS for advice and couldn't be sure of a diagnosis, so i thought best to leave them be again since I didn't want to put them through treatment for something they might to have. Again i did another 30% water change, making extra sure the water was matched in ph, temp salinity since it was a large change. Day 6 both clowns were on the bottom with very rapid breathing and by that afternoon/evening were showing small white slimy patches around the tail areas. However this was now too late to get formalin or bicarbonate for a freshwater dip. very late on the night of day 6, both clowns died with in 20 mins of each other. So I went into the LFS I got them from and told him what happened. Thinking they would need to know that the clowns possibly had brooklynella since he kept all his in the same system. He tested my water, and pointed out that my dkh was 6. And said that this was to blame. For a start how the heck can water that has been freshly changed that regularly running up to the time he tested have dropped to 6dkh!? Its not something I usually test, but all my other tanks are at 9dkh, using the same salt, rock, etc. Even my own test kit showed 6dkh fro the quarantine tank.
At the time I didn't want to argue with him as he has been in the hobby 10 times as long as I have. However I am struggling to find any evidence that the symptoms I saw would be caused by low alkalinity. Especially since natural sea water is 6.4dkh. However, with them being tank raised they would be used to 9-11dkh? could this be the reasoning behind his claim?
Tank spec for the quarantine are as follows:
10 gallon, with sump filled with live rock, heater, filter floss. Cycled long before I got the clowns. As I have been planning to get a pair to breed for a while. And I knew I wanted to quarantine them. Caulerpa racemes in the sump also ( I believe it helps with nutrient control as I always seem to end up feeding heavy in quarantine.)
Fish were fed on frozen brine with garlic, and small sinking pellets soak in sachems vitality.
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: <5 closer to zero.
dkh: 6
pH: 8.4
temp: 25c
tested water perams when i first saw signs of trouble, and then again after the next water change, and then at LFS. All results were the same, so no ammonia spike etc. Didn't test dkh myself until I came back from the LFS. Its not something I considered to be relevant to the situation. i would normally only test it if one of my corals looks unhappy in the display tank.
see pictures for the white slimy patches. Also worth noting that the fin edges were ragged, but very hard to see against the white of the net. Pictures where from day 5 and the last one was just after they died on day 6. Both fish looked the same. Although the male had slightly more white. Could not see any other signs on the fish.
Thank you for taking the time to read this I will admit its pretty long! but I thought I had better put all the info in it rather than folk asking for it after! I would really appreciate any input you got! I'm totally stumped. And can't find any info on the relation/ toxicity of alkalinity to fish!
Bought a pair of tank raised ocellaris clowns and put them in my quarantine tank. They seemed very nervous for the first couple days, but by day 2/3 they were swimming around as you would expect. However, on the evening of day 4, i noticed the male of the pair was breathing very rapidly. Thinking this was not normal I tried making sure there was enough surface agitation etc. There wasn't really any other symptoms at this stage so i didn't really have anything else to go on. So other than doing a 30% water change I decided to leave them be and check on them later. Day 5, the female now had very rapid breathing as well and the male was spending long periods of time lying on his side on the sand. At first I though brooklynella. But I couldn't see any white on either of them. At this time I couldn't go to any LFS for advice and couldn't be sure of a diagnosis, so i thought best to leave them be again since I didn't want to put them through treatment for something they might to have. Again i did another 30% water change, making extra sure the water was matched in ph, temp salinity since it was a large change. Day 6 both clowns were on the bottom with very rapid breathing and by that afternoon/evening were showing small white slimy patches around the tail areas. However this was now too late to get formalin or bicarbonate for a freshwater dip. very late on the night of day 6, both clowns died with in 20 mins of each other. So I went into the LFS I got them from and told him what happened. Thinking they would need to know that the clowns possibly had brooklynella since he kept all his in the same system. He tested my water, and pointed out that my dkh was 6. And said that this was to blame. For a start how the heck can water that has been freshly changed that regularly running up to the time he tested have dropped to 6dkh!? Its not something I usually test, but all my other tanks are at 9dkh, using the same salt, rock, etc. Even my own test kit showed 6dkh fro the quarantine tank.
At the time I didn't want to argue with him as he has been in the hobby 10 times as long as I have. However I am struggling to find any evidence that the symptoms I saw would be caused by low alkalinity. Especially since natural sea water is 6.4dkh. However, with them being tank raised they would be used to 9-11dkh? could this be the reasoning behind his claim?
Tank spec for the quarantine are as follows:
10 gallon, with sump filled with live rock, heater, filter floss. Cycled long before I got the clowns. As I have been planning to get a pair to breed for a while. And I knew I wanted to quarantine them. Caulerpa racemes in the sump also ( I believe it helps with nutrient control as I always seem to end up feeding heavy in quarantine.)
Fish were fed on frozen brine with garlic, and small sinking pellets soak in sachems vitality.
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: <5 closer to zero.
dkh: 6
pH: 8.4
temp: 25c
tested water perams when i first saw signs of trouble, and then again after the next water change, and then at LFS. All results were the same, so no ammonia spike etc. Didn't test dkh myself until I came back from the LFS. Its not something I considered to be relevant to the situation. i would normally only test it if one of my corals looks unhappy in the display tank.
see pictures for the white slimy patches. Also worth noting that the fin edges were ragged, but very hard to see against the white of the net. Pictures where from day 5 and the last one was just after they died on day 6. Both fish looked the same. Although the male had slightly more white. Could not see any other signs on the fish.
Thank you for taking the time to read this I will admit its pretty long! but I thought I had better put all the info in it rather than folk asking for it after! I would really appreciate any input you got! I'm totally stumped. And can't find any info on the relation/ toxicity of alkalinity to fish!
