Electrician here...If you need advice or help

[RandyFolds]

It would not blow my mind whatsoever to find that my house has no true earth ground, and just some floating ground or something, nor would it surprise me that the neutrals are badly corroded. I bet some of the original electrical is in here from 1923.

Now I am gonna be running around touching everything with a voltmeter.

 

[RandyFolds]

Hi bigdaddystar,

Recently one of my circuit breaker keeps tripping, it has 1 washer and 1 dryer connected to it. It's been working for 11 years and all of sudden starts to trip.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Ron

These things have a physical switch that wears out. It needs to be replaced. Cut the power and its two screws and three wires. I am not the electrician but I am real familiar with GFCI failing. I don't trust them for much after seeing so crap out.

BDS - Thank you so much for all the answers. This is quite a privilege...getting to pester a real electrician while I am not paying $75 an hour to do it...

 

[bigdaddystar]

you of course can get shocked....and probably will....I rarely turn off power but thats me....you want the old electricians way to shut it down....short the hot wire to ground...it trips the breaker 9/10

furthermore to wire it correctly if you dont already know you will need to identify to important wires which can be difficult if you do not know how to "ring them out" using a continuity tester....the wires you want are the power into the switch which goes to the black screw on one switch and the wire going to the light which goes on the other switches black screw...the other 2 wires on each switch are called travelers they dont matter they go to either 2 of the remaining copper screws on each switch

My 3 way switch in my bathroom has been wired incorrectly and I was wondering if I can fix the issue without turning off the circuit panel outside. I am reluctant to mess with the panel as I have no clue what I'm doing and don't want to accidentally turn off the power to my tank.

Is it safe to just go ahead and unscrew the switch?

 

[bigdaddystar]

Oh yeah, you pretty much just answered it for me...that old stuff is the root I would bet on it....What happens is the electricity basically gets stored in the house rather than dissipate back to the main lines or to the earth and when dealing with flourescents which are commonly known to overload neutrals and burn up even when the wiring is good...they are erratic power on the return neutral.

If it is your house wiring the best solution I could give you would be to replace all plugs and connections (wirenuts) check in the panel for corroded neutrals and yeah you probably have no grounds to speak on anything that was original

The next best option just for the tank would be to run a dedicated circuit just for it.

I can do any of these things for including troubleshoot and see what can be done further

It would not blow my mind whatsoever to find that my house has no true earth ground, and just some floating ground or something, nor would it surprise me that the neutrals are badly corroded. I bet some of the original electrical is in here from 1923.

Now I am gonna be running around touching everything with a voltmeter.

 

[bigdaddystar]

Generally breakers trip because they are overloading (too many amps) but since you say this is a new issue and all the equipment is the same...

Here are the possibilites:
The equipment, plug, or wire connections has a problem internally.

or the breaker is bad....but usually when breakers fail they just dont trip or are stuck on or off.

Sounds to me like a short or weak breaker or overloading for some reason

Hi bigdaddystar,

Recently one of my circuit breaker keeps tripping, it has 1 washer and 1 dryer connected to it. It's been working for 11 years and all of sudden starts to trip.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Ron

 

[bigdaddystar]

LOL...........yes but I do except donation please send to this address.....j/k



BDS - Thank you so much for all the answers. This is quite a privilege...getting to pester a real electrician while I am not paying $75 an hour to do it...[/QUOTE]

 

[syrss]

Thank you sir!

Generally breakers trip because they are overloading (too many amps) but since you say this is a new issue and all the equipment is the same...

Here are the possibilites:
The equipment, plug, or wire connections has a problem internally.

or the breaker is bad....but usually when breakers fail they just dont trip or are stuck on or off.

Sounds to me like a short or weak breaker or overloading for some reason

 

[RandyFolds]

Generally breakers trip because they are overloading (too many amps) but since you say this is a new issue and all the equipment is the same...

Here are the possibilites:
The equipment, plug, or wire connections has a problem internally.

or the breaker is bad....but usually when breakers fail they just dont trip or are stuck on or off.

Sounds to me like a short or weak breaker or overloading for some reason

I have seen them become squirrely a couple times, where they started out functioning properly and over the years became easier and easier to trip, like, if you aren't anywhere close to the circuits capacity and plug the whole power strip in it goes, but not if you plug things into the power strip one by one.

 

[syrss]

Thanks for the input. I am going to try plugging in something that has a lighter load like a small lamp or something and see how it goes.

I have seen them become squirrely a couple times, where they started out functioning properly and over the years became easier and easier to trip, like, if you aren't anywhere close to the circuits capacity and plug the whole power strip in it goes, but not if you plug things into the power strip one by one.

 

[RandyFolds]

LOL...........yes but I do except donation please send to this address.....j/k

I am the worst with service people, and I am one of them (I own an aquarium service...barter?? eh??). I have to stop myself from hovering. I want to see whats going on, but I know how much I hate it when people do it to me.

 

[bigdaddystar]

I never mind I figure most people are intrigued...and I get it a lot...I also get a lot that want to help I figure they are trying to see how it is done...electricians are expensive..dam near doctor prices....lol....and yet it Seems so simple...my labor rate is $50 hr...which is a great price even though it may not sound like it

I am the worst with service people, and I am one of them (I own an aquarium service...barter?? eh??). I have to stop myself from hovering. I want to see whats going on, but I know how much I hate it when people do it to me.

 

[RandyFolds]

I never mind I figure most people are intrigued...and I get it a lot...I also get a lot that want to help I figure they are trying to see how it is done...electricians are expensive..dam near doctor prices....lol....and yet it Seems so simple...my labor rate is $50 hr...which is a great price even though it may not sound like it

I usually don't mind, but if you're already having a hard time with something, it's that much worse to have someone hovering. No one wants to pay $50/hr to work at the speed of inexperience.

 

[bigdaddystar]

yeah that is so true....sometimes it gets annoying if they are constantly asking questions and butting in....I would rather be let alone to do my thing

 

[letsgofishin]

I'll give it a shock. I mean a shot...

be very careful with three way switches/circuits... the wires code is kinda strange and what you think is a nuetral wire is not.. it is a 'travelor' which connects the hot to both switches...

I would go to your electric panel and figure out which circuits are which.. better to do this when you are prepared and have some help to yell back to you what gets shut off, as you flip one breaker at a time...

it is also good to id the outlets so that you can mix / seperate the wires to your tank so that one set of wires is on one circuit and other wires are on another circuit... i.e. seperate your pump outlet from your lighting outlet.. as those are the two biggest and most important items...


it shouldnt matter if you unplug and or turn off the breaker... the worst that should happen is the tank will drain a little bit back into the sump if you have one, and if you dont, have it plumbed correctly and teh sump overflows, it is better to figure this out sooner rather then later?

and it is also good to know if you are safe if there are any brown outs in your neighborhood... and tghings will start up ok on thier own...

it's a good feeling to know that things are ok after a test like that...

dont forget to mark/id the circuit breakers after you go thru the trouble so you dont have to 'repeat' the excersize

 

[letsgofishin]

no.

actually if you put the gfi in the first outlet from the breaker panel then the remaining outlets will be gfi 'protected'.

you can also buy a gfi or better yet an arc circuit breaker to replace the breaker in your panel

arc is the latest technology, and slightly different then gfi...

gfi is exactly that.. GROUND FAULT.. where as the ARC protection will trip faster in teh instance of any arc or loose wire

btw: you shouldnt have two gfi outlets on the same circuit... wont work and likely to give you lots of false positives, i.e. trip more often then necessary...

i have 3 individual plugins/or outlets running off one breaker. if i put a gfi outlet on the final outlet, will the two outlets in-between the end, with the gfi, and the breaker also be gfi protected?

 

[letsgofishin]

Generally breakers trip because they are overloading (too many amps) but since you say this is a new issue and all the equipment is the same...

Here are the possibilites:
The equipment, plug, or wire connections has a problem internally.

or the breaker is bad....but usually when breakers fail they just dont trip or are stuck on or off.

Sounds to me like a short or weak breaker or overloading for some reason

is this a 'two pole' breaker? slightly larger and or looks like two breakers that are 'tied' together?

like randy suggested, it could be wearing out, the part that wears out is the spring inside that gets weaker...

but i would also check to make sure you dont ahave a reverse polarity wiring issue... if a newer outlet or switch was installed recently, it could be wired backwards, which doesnt sound like it should be a problem with AC, but it is...

you can buy a outlet checker from HD it just plugs into the outlets and lights up some leds to let you know if it is ok or if there is a problem somewhere... and trace it down...

 

[letsgofishin]

lanny,

check the main panel.. and look for a wire that is ground.. it must connect to a water pipe somewhere...it should have it.. even older wiring had it... newer code requires a dedicated ground rod 10ft, i think... but older codes had it going to water pipes.

also make sure you arent 'grounding' out to other water pipes in other areas... that will change the nuetral/ground potential...

i am still thinking it is a ballast issue... if possible, run a new circuit, including ground all the way back to the main panel, and then run the ground down to the same ground as the main ground...

and i am thinking of a test for you...

if what you say is true or close to true, then you should be able to charge up the reflector/capacitor, then power down the ballasts and unplug and all that and still read voltage or get zapped, as teh voltage is stored..

but if the voltage is only present when the light is plugged in then it is being induced by magnetic or by high frequency bleed over, as in the article/link i posted...

 

[RandyFolds]

is this a 'two pole' breaker? slightly larger and or looks like two breakers that are 'tied' together?

like randy suggested, it could be wearing out, the part that wears out is the spring inside that gets weaker...

but i would also check to make sure you dont ahave a reverse polarity wiring issue... if a newer outlet or switch was installed recently, it could be wired backwards, which doesnt sound like it should be a problem with AC, but it is...

you can buy a outlet checker from HD it just plugs into the outlets and lights up some leds to let you know if it is ok or if there is a problem somewhere... and trace it down...

He's talking about an outlet GFCI.

 

[RandyFolds]

lanny,

check the main panel.. and look for a wire that is ground.. it must connect to a water pipe somewhere...it should have it.. even older wiring had it... newer code requires a dedicated ground rod 10ft, i think... but older codes had it going to water pipes.

also make sure you arent 'grounding' out to other water pipes in other areas... that will change the nuetral/ground potential...

i am still thinking it is a ballast issue... if possible, run a new circuit, including ground all the way back to the main panel, and then run the ground down to the same ground as the main ground...

and i am thinking of a test for you...

if what you say is true or close to true, then you should be able to charge up the reflector/capacitor, then power down the ballasts and unplug and all that and still read voltage or get zapped, as teh voltage is stored..

but if the voltage is only present when the light is plugged in then it is being induced by magnetic or by high frequency bleed over, as in the article/link i posted...

Dude, you've seen my garbage house. I am not doing a damn thing to improve this dump. As far as the main goes, there is obviously a ground at the main breaker, but I have never traced it down to earth. My friggin water line is split from the other house and lies above ground...some genius code-spec work there...:hammer:...

As far as the reflector, you are all over the place. Capacitor was the wrong choice of words/electrical component. Resistor maybe? It is only present when the flourescent is on, and is not present with a burnt out bulb or when the ballast is off. I even tried insulating the bulb from the glass of the reflector. Still there...

 

[bigdaddystar]

Any home built before 1960 had no grounds only neutral which is technically a ground....but the purpose the ground wire serves is if that neutral should fail or any part of the electrical for that matter it will go to earth instead of back to the utility company or through your body or equipment.

A properly grounded system consists of a wire going to a ground rd 8' in lentgh pounded into the earth....a wire connecting to the cold copper pipes which also go to the earth and in most codes a wire going to the gas line

Bonding all 3 ensures that if ant other one was to fail you have secondary exits.

And of course any home built before 1980 I reccomend getting an upgrade on the panel and these days usually a complete re-wire to bring your home up to code....I know easier said than done....but neccesary