Electrician here...If you need advice or help

[bigdaddystar]

AFCI (arc fault circuit interupters)
GFCI (ground fault circuit interupters)

They have 2 very different roles and are not to be confused one does not take the place of the other

GFCI protect life immediately...if you just in a bath tub with a toaster it will trip and you are fine

AFCI they are the same concept but not intentionally rated for that purpose so they are not to code to replace a gfcis....so be careful plus they are expensive $35 versus $12 for gfci

Plus they require a special wiring method that is in my opinion a little out of the realm of the home owner to replace

 

[robojet]

Queston for the electrician...

Background: I'm in the middle of a landscape renovation, where some electrical features are being added (spa, xtra receptacles), and I've pretty much maxed out the panel! Any thing more will cause me to have to get a new panel. This is a bit of a problem, because I had some additional "future" items that I wanted to add... like a circuit just for my reef aquarium

To the Question: How big of a deal is a panel upgrade, and what would I expect it to set me back? And do you do that kind of work?

Thanks!

 

[letsgofishin]

thanks for this clarification.. i was informed that AFCI was replacing the GFCI requirement... and did replace GFCI...

thanks

AFCI (arc fault circuit interupters)
GFCI (ground fault circuit interupters)

They have 2 very different roles and are not to be confused one does not take the place of the other

GFCI protect life immediately...if you just in a bath tub with a toaster it will trip and you are fine

AFCI they are the same concept but not intentionally rated for that purpose so they are not to code to replace a gfcis....so be careful plus they are expensive $35 versus $12 for gfci

Plus they require a special wiring method that is in my opinion a little out of the realm of the home owner to replace

 

[letsgofishin]

AFCIs vs. GFCIs
The AFCI should not be confused with the GFCI or ground fault circuit interrupter. The
GFCI is designed to protect people from severe or fatal electric shocks while the AFCI
protects against fires caused by arcing faults. The GFCI also can protect against some
electrical fires by detecting arcing and other faults to ground but cannot detect hazardous
across-the-line arcing faults that can cause fires.

A ground fault is an unintentional electric path diverting current to ground. Ground
faults occur when current leaks from a circuit. How the current leaks is very important.
If a person's body provides a path to ground for this leakage, the person could be injured,
burned, severely shocked, or electrocuted.

The National Electrical Code requires GFCI protection for receptacles located outdoors;
in bathrooms, garages, kitchens, crawl spaces and unfinished basements; and at certain
locations such as near swimming pools. A combination AFCI and GFCI can be used to
satisfy the NEC requirement for GFCI protection only if specifically marked as a
combination device.

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/afcifac8.pdf


again, thanks for the clarification...

 

[bigdaddystar]

First off, not a real big deal....how many amps is your main?

200 amp is the new standard

If you got that you need a sub-panel inside...you are not out of power

If not upgrade...what my usual cost for this A GRAND plus material but I will hook you up...let me know.....

Queston for the electrician...

Background: I'm in the middle of a landscape renovation, where some electrical features are being added (spa, xtra receptacles), and I've pretty much maxed out the panel! Any thing more will cause me to have to get a new panel. This is a bit of a problem, because I had some additional "future" items that I wanted to add... like a circuit just for my reef aquarium

To the Question: How big of a deal is a panel upgrade, and what would I expect it to set me back? And do you do that kind of work?

Thanks!

 

[RandyFolds]

A GRAND plus material

Deeaaaaaaaaamn. So there is a plus side to renting...

 

[johnwin84]

Question..How do I check if all sockets inside a house are grounded?…if not how do I ground them? Really all I need grounded is the socket for my fish tank..lol

Well back ground
The house is a single story house in Huntington Beach and is in escrow. The inspection report stated that some sockets were not grounded.. It was built in the 1960, but in 1990 the homeowner added extra breakers for Ac and a spa. I was wondering if I can just take out the spa power and run it to my fish tank instead…The fish tank will be directly behind the panel so it should be easy to change the breaker

thanks

 

[bigdaddystar]

1960 was on the verge of adding grounds prior to that the houses were only built with a hot and neutral....your issue may lie either way you could have grounds and the plug is bad or miswired

Here is the run down to know for sure...open your panel cover to expose all the wiring and look and see if you see grounds coming from all of the romex if it has romex....if still unsure remove a plug known to nt have ground and see if it has a ground wire in the box.

Next up...is it a real big deal to add grounds? depends if your house was run in counduit rewiring the entire house would be easy...if it doesnt have conduit and just romex...it is a major project.

Next up....your tank...add a new circuit is easy and if your panel is not grounded I can ground or upgrade your choice....

The easiest way to verify all your plugs are wired correctly is to go to home depot or sears and purchase a $10 plug tester...Its a little hanheld device with a normal 3 prong plug and a bunch of lights indicating if it is wired correctly or not

Question..How do I check if all sockets inside a house are grounded?"¦if not how do I ground them? Really all I need grounded is the socket for my fish tank..lol

Well back ground
The house is a single story house in Huntington Beach and is in escrow. The inspection report stated that some sockets were not grounded.. It was built in the 1960, but in 1990 the homeowner added extra breakers for Ac and a spa. I was wondering if I can just take out the spa power and run it to my fish tank instead"¦The fish tank will be directly behind the panel so it should be easy to change the breaker

thanks

 

[bigdaddystar]

Sorry i must have missed this one.....

Your answer NO.

Here is how it would work

say I have 10 plugs and on the very first plug I put a gfi....every plug after it would die if it tripped....if I put it on the tenth plug only that one would trip

Plus gfi require a special wiring method on them they have a line side(power in) and a load side (wired to the the rest of the plugs) if not wired properly the rest will not be protected but just check your work afterwards by tripping it and then testing the remaining plugs ensuring they are dead.

i have 3 individual plugins/or outlets running off one breaker. if i put a gfi outlet on the final outlet, will the two outlets in-between the end, with the gfi, and the breaker also be gfi protected?

 

[bigdaddystar]

Yeah and that is a great deal believe me....I used to charge 2K PLUS MATERIAL WHEN EVERYONE ELSE WAS CHARGING 4k........OUCH!!!!
I even met a customer that paid 8K for a 200 amp upgrade....I just about felt like giving them a hug and telling them i am sorry on behalf of all electricians...LOL

Deeaaaaaaaaamn. So there is a plus side to renting...

 

[letsgofishin]

i had thought he wanted to have the outletsn on that leg protected, and as such it would be ok if they all went dead if any one of them were at fault...???

but yes, you can lose a lot of devices and equipment if only one device is bad... and as such i wouldnt recomend that either.


Protect only the items that in the water or can be touched while your in the water... i.e. like bathroom outlets or kitchen sink outlets... if the outlet is within 5' if i recall correctly, then that device needs gfi protection... but you wouldnt want subsequent outlets to be protected, like in your dining room or bedroom... jsut the ones in or near the sinks/tubs, tank, etc....


btw: question for ya'....

if the house or panel is older, and not properly grounded, will a 'gfi' work??? i.e. will it trip if there is a fault with the device? or will it not trip if there is a fault??? and just work lke a regular outlet?


also, some outlet boxes have a 'ground' wire in them but the ground is not grounded back to the main panel or main ground? I am not sure i would trust a visual inspection of what is in the outlet box? the inexpensive plugin ground / polarity checkers are the key...

 

[bigdaddystar]

gfi will work no matter what the age of the home they dont rely on ground just neutral and correct you would only want a gfi where there is a danger of electruction.....but alot of people are overly paranoid and like to use them and there is nothing wrong with that either....

also, alot of old homes can be grounded without rewire provided you have a metal conduit and metal boxes...you ground to the box then the plug...this is code acceptable but you must have a continuous metal conduit to the panel and then ground the panel....ground rod, cold water bond, gas bond.

 

[letsgofishin]

got a follow up q:

is the majority of 'residential' wiring done with conduit? or is the majority done with romex or 'bx' cable? or other wiring?


i.e. what are the chances the house is built with conduit where you can bond to that instead of running the third conductor?


seperate question:

what are your thoughts on ground probes in tanks? and or running the ground probe to a cold water pipe? (not the main panel ground)


thanks

 

[johnwin84]

Thanks bigdaddystar...btw I think I meet you at the iemas meeting but did not get a chance to talk to you. But probably in about a month when escrow closes ill get in contact with you to come out to check the panel and such

 

[bigdaddystar]

Sounds good....yeah I think I met you...I was also at the frags 4 food with Mike and my friend andy in the orange jeep....

Just give me a call I will definetely give you the best deal in town and not bull#$%! you about what needs to be done.

Thanks bigdaddystar...btw I think I meet you at the iemas meeting but did not get a chance to talk to you. But probably in about a month when escrow closes ill get in contact with you to come out to check the panel and such

 

[bigdaddystar]

If anyone needs to reach me regarding any electrical feel free to call or text also

(909)648-9668

Paul

 

[bigdaddystar]

Most homes are run in romex after 1950.....prior to that many use metal flex conduit....anywhere between 1950 to 1960 its questionable what was used.

Only way to know is to open something up or peek in your attic and look for the electrical lines

Realistically any plug installed can be grounded by simply running a wire by any means to a path that reaches earth....its still better than nothing but the only true code way is to get it back to the panel and bonded from there

got a follow up q:

is the majority of 'residential' wiring done with conduit? or is the majority done with romex or 'bx' cable? or other wiring?


i.e. what are the chances the house is built with conduit where you can bond to that instead of running the third conductor?


seperate question:

what are your thoughts on ground probes in tanks? and or running the ground probe to a cold water pipe? (not the main panel ground)


thanks

 

[robojet]

Thanks for your response Paul! I'm going to need to upgrade the panel... cha-ching! LOL

 

[letsgofishin]

another question please. (in regards to the upgrading of the main panel)

isnt the size of the main panel related to the size/amount of service that is supplied by SCE? or whomever the company is?

you cant put in a panel for 200 amps if sce is only suppling 100a

that would mean you could be popping the main breaker

will SCE put in any size service requested? or will they say no to excessive requirements?/requests? and or will they charge you for the service, i.e. the installation of new/larger wires if needed, new transformers, etc...

would determining actual requirements and or 'redistributing' the loads be better, i.e. instead of having 20a breakers for areas that will never have that much, and swapping out to 15a breakers... and thereby creating 5a to use for a new or larger circtuit elsewhere...

or is the area or possible useage not a concern...and teh sized used/specified or based on worst possible scenario?

or does it just totally not matter and is 'non issue'?

thanks

s

 

[bigdaddystar]

So to start Edison does dictate the amount (amps) but a 200A is the norm...they would not let you have a 400A unless you had a 6000sq ft home

Yes you can put a 200a over a 100A because it is edisons job to upgrade the wires not yours and they rarely do but its on them if those wires burn up....but they wont.

next up the breaker size does not matter regardless of if it is a 15,20,30,40 or so on it still takes a spot in the panel....breakers are sized according to wires....14 awg is 15A, 12 awg is 20A, 10 awg is 30A

another question please. (in regards to the upgrading of the main panel)

isnt the size of the main panel related to the size/amount of service that is supplied by SCE? or whomever the company is?

you cant put in a panel for 200 amps if sce is only suppling 100a

that would mean you could be popping the main breaker

will SCE put in any size service requested? or will they say no to excessive requirements?/requests? and or will they charge you for the service, i.e. the installation of new/larger wires if needed, new transformers, etc...

would determining actual requirements and or 'redistributing' the loads be better, i.e. instead of having 20a breakers for areas that will never have that much, and swapping out to 15a breakers... and thereby creating 5a to use for a new or larger circtuit elsewhere...

or is the area or possible useage not a concern...and teh sized used/specified or based on worst possible scenario?

or does it just totally not matter and is 'non issue'?

thanks

s