electricity in tank?!!!

Agios go try it without a ground it will work. If you hook up a gfci with no ground and you take your hot to ground it will trip. All the gfci see's is x amount of current on the hot and >x on the neutral and trip. As long as the two remain equal it will not trip, the gfci does not care where the current is going. If you wire it to code it has to have a ground but it will work without one.


Art
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10068886#post10068886 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 0 Agios
I agree thats how a GFI works, but if theres no grounding probe there is not going to be a difference in the neutral load. Thats why you need the grounding probe, otherwise the GFI will not trip.

I disagree ... GFI's have saved my bacon many times over the yrs without a ground probe.

Ground probes were placed into tanks to capture electromagnetically induced stray voltage ... not as a safety device for aquarist.
 
Agios,

Maybe you are talking about the stray current not tripping the gfci? If the current is derived current like magnetic or static, then that will not trip the gfci because it won't see a out of balance situation. If you put a groundign probe in the tank and plug it into the gfci it will take the random current and drain it to the ground on the gfci. If that is the case it wouldn't trip the gfci becuase the current is being created in the tank not shorted to the tank. 2 different scenarions, wouldn't you agree?

Art
 
Without a grounding probe, the current just stays in the tank until you put your hand into it.. turing yourself into a grounding probe.. and yes when this happens the gfci will trip :D
 
I'm sorry, maybe you didn't see my sig, I am also an electrician with a 20 year's exp. Ca. state certified and 4 years of college on theory and microprcessor's. I am more than qualified to speak on the subject. I currently work for the union in S.F. Local 6 and am a G.F. for a large union contractor. I have worked on everything from Refineries to power plant's with atleast 2 year's in housing.

This is not about me versus you, this is just to let you know who I am ....:)


Art
 
I agree that GFI and a ground probe are important. However, I run pumps on two different circuits so if a GFI plug trips one circuit, the second one still has flow.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10068959#post10068959 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Seehag
I'm sorry, maybe you didn't see my sig, I am also an electrician with a 20 year's exp. Ca. state certified and 4 years of college on theory and microprcessor's. I am more than qualified to speak on the subject. I currently work for the union in S.F. Local 6 and am a G.F. for a large union contractor. I have worked on everything from Refineries to power plant's with atleast 2 year's in housing.

This is not about me versus you, this is just to let you know who I am ....:)


Art
ok and is only fair that you know who I am. General manager for electrical production in the Turkey Point nuclear plant. We generate 30 megawatts of power. I currently hold a masters in physics and a master in electrical engineering. For the past 20 years I am a licensed electrician and also knew mr Thomas Edisons grand kids.
 
I'm with Seehag and kevin2000, btw I work with HV transformer/substation and just finished my electrical construction degree too.

GFI have nothing to do with grounding probe as it "monitor" the current on both hot/neutral and trip if the difference is > 5mA.

Some reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residual-current_device

Most of the time, the voltage is capacitive or inductive and is not leaking from equipement. As kevin said, a grounding probe remove it and will NOT trip a gfi.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10069504#post10069504 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Seehag
O agios never figured you were that old...:)

Art
Ok fellas you did it now!!! I will go to my laboratory and start experiments. What did I say ? 5ma and the damn thing trips.......... but without the ground probe you may not get the 5 ma difference in the neutral.:smokin: glad to see fellow electricians in the forum. :D
 
GFCI will work without a ground or probe. They didn't when they first came out long, long ago, but they had to change it. Look at your hair dyer , TV, toaster, radio and some power heads and heaters, most don't have a ground plug on it. so they change them. That's was what I was told by a old timer
Take a voltage meter and put one end in the tank and the other on a ground, I think that should tell.

If the voltage is small,(voltage can be from 1 mil volts to millions) A grounding probe will work. It's like grandma old refigurator in the garage, when you touch it. It shock you a little. It's not grounded. Power will find the easiest way back home and that will be the ground wire, not you. But that don't make it right, it's still leaking voltage. Corals might not feel it because they are not grounded but saltwater is a conductor and if it somehow gets grounded it may and if it don't, It's like I said, Would you live under power lines. In fact I think they don't build under power lines no more by law

If you feel it, Fix it.
 
I suspect people are talking past each other here and there is less disagreement than appears. The original point that O Agios was making was that "BOTH" a GFI and ground probe were good ideas in an aquarium (to protect the aquarist) ... seems to me that comment is right on the money.
 
WOW hot topic... I love it

Thanks for all the good info everyone!

I'm a little suprised that one of our gurus of the all mighty electron hasn't gone into a 'volts V.S. amps' discussion....

Oh and just for the record, so you know who i am: I licked a 9 volt battery once... :lolspin:
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10069699#post10069699 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Wett Hands
WOW hot topic... I love it

Thanks for all the good info everyone!

I'm a little suprised that one of our gurus of the all mighty electron hasn't gone into a 'volts V.S. amps' discussion....

Oh and just for the record, so you know who i am: I licked a 9 volt battery once... :lolspin:
volts V.S. amps. well since you ^$$%&&^$## it up......... voltage is what kills you. There you go...:smokin:
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10069747#post10069747 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 0 Agios
volts V.S. amps. well since you ^$$%&&^$## it up......... voltage is what kills you. There you go...:smokin:

LOL Thanks 0 Agios... ;)

When I got my electronics degrees a decade ago, the maxim 'current kills' was popular. Whats changed?
 
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