Young Frankenstein
New member
Chikening out :mixed: :mixed: :mixed:<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10069832#post10069832 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Seehag
Seehag skulks back to Nitrate's reading...
Art
electricity in tank?!!!
- Thread starter wes_8_u
- Start date
Ok.... I'm really confused now.
SO i take it that a GFI is a must regardless of whether there is a problem or not..
So will a GFI work wihtout a grounding probe? and how essential is it? From what i read, a grounding probe causes your tank to act as a wire... no good for both the fish and the aquarist, in the case of stray voltage.
Now in terms of the current in my tank... According to Kevin2000 and new reefer there will be some stray current (electromagnetically induced) and this is normal? could this be what it is? because it seems strange that all my equipment causes some current individually?
i'm not sure how strong it is.. i guess i should find a voltmeter and find out how to use it to check it out.
I really appreciate all your help, and i know it's difficult discussing a topic as vague as electricity... just know that i am really concerned... i know little about electricity (in practice) and did not know about GFI or grounding probes until this discussion.
I just don't want to replace ALL the equipment unless i'm sure they actually are faulty? There's nothing worse then going through all the trouble of getting a whole new set of stuff to find exactly the same issues.
i would gladly invest in any safety equipment, i'm just really vague as to what the best way to do it atm- i don't want to make any changes that may be detrimental for the tank. From what i've read, i definately should get a GFI... The grounding probe sounds llike a dangerous one...
enlighten me!
1. Could it be only small magnettically induced current
2. what safety equipment?
3. Is voltmeter the only way to test?
SO i take it that a GFI is a must regardless of whether there is a problem or not..
So will a GFI work wihtout a grounding probe? and how essential is it? From what i read, a grounding probe causes your tank to act as a wire... no good for both the fish and the aquarist, in the case of stray voltage.
Now in terms of the current in my tank... According to Kevin2000 and new reefer there will be some stray current (electromagnetically induced) and this is normal? could this be what it is? because it seems strange that all my equipment causes some current individually?
i'm not sure how strong it is.. i guess i should find a voltmeter and find out how to use it to check it out.
I really appreciate all your help, and i know it's difficult discussing a topic as vague as electricity... just know that i am really concerned... i know little about electricity (in practice) and did not know about GFI or grounding probes until this discussion.
I just don't want to replace ALL the equipment unless i'm sure they actually are faulty? There's nothing worse then going through all the trouble of getting a whole new set of stuff to find exactly the same issues.
i would gladly invest in any safety equipment, i'm just really vague as to what the best way to do it atm- i don't want to make any changes that may be detrimental for the tank. From what i've read, i definately should get a GFI... The grounding probe sounds llike a dangerous one...
enlighten me!
1. Could it be only small magnettically induced current
2. what safety equipment?
3. Is voltmeter the only way to test?
Young Frankenstein
New member
theres your answer wes 8, Ground fault Circuit Interrupter or Ground Fault Interrupter is the same thing.<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10068950#post10068950 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by marduc
Without a grounding probe, the current just stays in the tank until you put your hand into it.. turing yourself into a grounding probe.. and yes when this happens the gfci will trip
Young Frankenstein
New member
So that we dont confuse people. Do we all electricians agree a fish tank with a grounding probe is safer for the aquarium's ? I for one suggest it.
BrassMonkey
Member
well theres two things here.
1, whats safest for you
2, whats best for your tank.
there is always going to be potential current in your tank. unless you can figure out how not to put wires and em emitting motors in it.
mine is 13.5v 6 pumps 2 heaters.
in my opinion, a grounding probe would be worse for my tank. it completes the circuit in my tank an makes current flow through it.
would it be better for my personal health? yup.
1, whats safest for you
2, whats best for your tank.
there is always going to be potential current in your tank. unless you can figure out how not to put wires and em emitting motors in it.
mine is 13.5v 6 pumps 2 heaters.
in my opinion, a grounding probe would be worse for my tank. it completes the circuit in my tank an makes current flow through it.
would it be better for my personal health? yup.
NewSaltyReefer
Member
Interesting argument; how about 10000 volts @ 1mA, I am pretty sure that will not kill you.
Also studies have shown that shocks as high as 1 amp are not as fatal as ones between 100-200mA no matter what the voltage.
thanks O agios and brass monkey..
so it sounds like, voltage in your tank is inevitable?
If so is their a certain threshold it should be under?
i will check mine out, once i find a voltmeter. DOes everyone agree that it is inevitable?
And out of curiousty: "Brassmonkey" and others, what sort of effect would this sort of stuff have on your health?
so it sounds like, voltage in your tank is inevitable?
If so is their a certain threshold it should be under?
i will check mine out, once i find a voltmeter. DOes everyone agree that it is inevitable?
And out of curiousty: "Brassmonkey" and others, what sort of effect would this sort of stuff have on your health?
Young Frankenstein
New member
10000 volts @ 1mA will make toast, trust me I work with high voltage.
funman1
Active member
Holy crap here people.
If you really want to get down to it, it's WHERE the amperage GOES through your body and how much.
100 amps in your right hand thumb and OUT your right hand pointer finger will just blow off your two fingers and you'll prolly survive.
100 amps through your right and thumb and OUT your left hand pointer is going to cross your heart and cook it.
It only takes 0.03 amps ACROSS your heart to interrupt it's signal from the brain. Voltage does not kill, Think Vandygraph Generator at like 500,000 volts but like almost 0 amps so it's fun to play with and make your hair stand up.
Though it does take a minimal voltage to push amperage.
A car battery if touched with two bleeding cuts will pump MASSIVE amounts of amperage through it, Blood is a GREAT conductor, skin is not so much. Hence why you can touch car batteries and be just fine most the time.
At this point I don't think anyone is going to learn anything from either camp.
Just because everyone else was stating their credentials, I TEACH the classes for CA state Certification and currently have 15ys field exp.
If you really want to get down to it, it's WHERE the amperage GOES through your body and how much.
100 amps in your right hand thumb and OUT your right hand pointer finger will just blow off your two fingers and you'll prolly survive.
100 amps through your right and thumb and OUT your left hand pointer is going to cross your heart and cook it.
It only takes 0.03 amps ACROSS your heart to interrupt it's signal from the brain. Voltage does not kill, Think Vandygraph Generator at like 500,000 volts but like almost 0 amps so it's fun to play with and make your hair stand up.
Though it does take a minimal voltage to push amperage.
A car battery if touched with two bleeding cuts will pump MASSIVE amounts of amperage through it, Blood is a GREAT conductor, skin is not so much. Hence why you can touch car batteries and be just fine most the time.
At this point I don't think anyone is going to learn anything from either camp.
Just because everyone else was stating their credentials, I TEACH the classes for CA state Certification and currently have 15ys field exp.
Last edited:
Icefire
Seasoned reefer
Yes and no, grounding probe are for draining induction stray voltage (need one for orp/ph probe) and to trip your breaker if a hot wire touch the water.
It's not good because it allow current to flow continiously and also if you drop a light, the neutral is way closer than the grounding probe so it will trip the breaker anyway.
You'll always have some inductive voltage and it's not harmful.
I have no GFI/grounding probe on my tank because GFI for human protection are too sensitive and not really made for pump.
I know the danger of 120v, I had 2 cross heart shock on 120v (hand to hand) and playing in my tank with nothing grounded near me don't alarm me.
Many electrician test outlet/switch by putting the thumb/index on hot/neutral to see if it's on. It's not bright but it show it's not that bad since the skim have hi resistance.
Randall_James
Premium Member
not to knock your credentials but some of your posts are so nonsensical that it is hard to take you very serious...
There is considerable debate about running grounding probes in tanks anyway. GFCI however should be required IMO.
Some have tried to tie LLE to tank potential and on the flip side, it does not seem to fix the ailment either, seems to be more diet related.
ok, so GFI can be too sensitive? and grounding probe is not 'essential' for the function of GFI
But should GFI still be used despite it's sensitivity- are there any other detrimental effects?
so it's normal to have voltage in the water. So when i test whether it is safe/normal... are their parameters to which i should be referencing... (ie. how would i differentiate between normal voltage/current to perhaps voltage/current that shouldn't be in the water?)
we use 240 volts in australia... if that changes anything?
thankyou
But should GFI still be used despite it's sensitivity- are there any other detrimental effects?
so it's normal to have voltage in the water. So when i test whether it is safe/normal... are their parameters to which i should be referencing... (ie. how would i differentiate between normal voltage/current to perhaps voltage/current that shouldn't be in the water?)
we use 240 volts in australia... if that changes anything?
thankyou
Randall_James
Premium Member
I have never seen a tank with 0 potential... And I think that some GFCI are a bit touchy, but I think it could be related to "quality" of the unit...
i think GFI should be the new GPO personally. if anyone is saying that 1 less safety device is not going to do any good, do u think they would of made it?its like...whats the point of havin a circuit breaker or a GFI? to be safer? technology is advancing, so is protection of the devices..grounding probe would really not be a bad buy, hell if 25 bucks safes me a zap, and i have been zapped before i would gladly spend an easy $1000 on it, u can have the best reef in the world but wats the use if ur bbq'd right next to it?get the probe m8 or get an electrician to check it out, money well spent other then a new 4 power heads which mite not even be the case.hell id do it for free if it saves some ones life
Young Frankenstein
New member
Save it Randal, you doctors think you know everything. If you take the hot conductor of a GFI and place it in a non grounded fish tank, the GFI will not trip. When introducing a ground to it such as, the neutral leg, or a ground probe, or yourself pouting your hand in the tank when you touch with the other hand a ground, or your feet grounded, THEN IT WILL TRIP,most of the time. Most of the time meens theres a potential failure of the $ 15.00 dollar device, and in that case the only guarantee to save you is a grounding probe that will send the current to the ground and possibly trip the circuit breaker.
