elegance came off shell
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oddballs
In Memoriam
In Aquarium corals by Eric Borneman on page 381 on polyp bailout it states that
"The freed polyp may drift considerable distance and settle in an environment that may or may not be better than the one it has escaped.Two slightly adhesive filaments are retained by the polyp to facilitate a successful settlement.Under natural conditions ,less than 5%of such bailed polyps will settle successfully after a nonatached state that typically last 7 to 9 days."
It also states that in aquariums with a lot of flow that it makes it hard for them to successfully settle back down.But it does sound like they are not always going to die just all but 2 to 4 percent, not real great odds for sure ? He does say that they do retain filaments that help it to reattach if it does find a spot.
"The freed polyp may drift considerable distance and settle in an environment that may or may not be better than the one it has escaped.Two slightly adhesive filaments are retained by the polyp to facilitate a successful settlement.Under natural conditions ,less than 5%of such bailed polyps will settle successfully after a nonatached state that typically last 7 to 9 days."
It also states that in aquariums with a lot of flow that it makes it hard for them to successfully settle back down.But it does sound like they are not always going to die just all but 2 to 4 percent, not real great odds for sure ? He does say that they do retain filaments that help it to reattach if it does find a spot.
kkdoughboy
New member
Nice! I have that book gonna skim through it again. Missed that part somehow. Good call though 
addicted2reefin
New member
in my coral propagation book by mr. anthony calfo he states that polyp bailout could be caused by excessive flow or other stressors. also polyp bailout is an extreme, last resort type of propagation, and that they still can regrow a skeletal structure.
elegance coral
They call me EC
This is a nice theory that's been around forever, and I do wish it were true. Unfortunately, there is no evidence to back up these claims. Corals don't lay down calcium carbonate unless the area responsible for this task is isolated from the surrounding ocean water. Coral larvae do not begin producing calcium carbonate until after they have settled and created a bond with an appropriate substrate. A bailed out polyp doesn't have this ability.
High flow rates can cause polyp bailout especially in LPS corals like Elegance. All it takes is one small portion of the polyp to be pulled off the skeleton by excessive flow and the seal is broken. Sea water can then directly enter the area where calcification takes place and disrupt the whole process. Eventually the polyp simply falls off.
This is not a survival tactic. We are on the largest site of this kind in the world. If anyone has evidence to suggest I'm wrong, I would gladly admit my error. Any photos of a bailed out polyp producing a new skeleton or a link to a reputable scientific study that documents the process of bailed out polyps resettling in a new location will do. Just one well documented case will do.
No offence to you Oddballs or anyone else, but aquarium authors parroting old myths, legends, and folklore isn't exactly what I would call sound scientific evidence.
oddballs
In Memoriam
I do not think that this book is based on folklore,legends or myths.Eric bornemen has put many hours into studying these animals not just in aquariums but also in the ocean.This is what he does for a living .I am not saying you are wrong or trying to offend either.And I honestly do not care if this is the biggest site of its kind in the universe,I have heard and seen some really stupid things said and done on this site.The funny thing is that he said that less than 5% of these animals survive after polyp bailout?So did he just make that number up? It looks to me like there have been some kind of work or a study was done on this? J.E.N Veron is one of the worlds biggest authorites on corals,I do not think he is gonna write the forward of a book and put his name on it if it were based on folklore?
elegance coral
They call me EC
I did not intend to offend anyone that still idolizes Borenman. My apologies.
We may not be using the term "polyp bailout" to describe the same condition. After reading your first post again, I noticed that the data you quoted is very similar to a process that a species of SPS coral goes through. It is not the same process that Elegance corals go through. In the SPS coral, the polyps separate while still on the coral. Once detached, they no longer resemble the polyp while it was living on the coral. The tentacles are no longer detectable, and filiments develop. The filiments are unknown structures. Maybe mesenterial filiments?????? Elegance corals go through no such metamorphoses. All of the living tissue remains intact, they do not produce filiments, and they don't settle to form a new coral. In the SPS coral this is clearly a form of reproduction and it coincides with the corals normal breeding season. It's not as though the coral simply detaches form the skeleton like we see in Elegance corals. It's much more complicated than that.
We may not be using the term "polyp bailout" to describe the same condition. After reading your first post again, I noticed that the data you quoted is very similar to a process that a species of SPS coral goes through. It is not the same process that Elegance corals go through. In the SPS coral, the polyps separate while still on the coral. Once detached, they no longer resemble the polyp while it was living on the coral. The tentacles are no longer detectable, and filiments develop. The filiments are unknown structures. Maybe mesenterial filiments?????? Elegance corals go through no such metamorphoses. All of the living tissue remains intact, they do not produce filiments, and they don't settle to form a new coral. In the SPS coral this is clearly a form of reproduction and it coincides with the corals normal breeding season. It's not as though the coral simply detaches form the skeleton like we see in Elegance corals. It's much more complicated than that.
oddballs
In Memoriam
Elegance coral you are a REALLY funny guy!! I do not have to idolize someone just because I quoted there book! But I decided that since you have ALL the info I need I am just waiting on your book to come out,when is the release date on it?Also it takes a lot more than that to offend me.You think what you want and I will do the same.
NateDizzle
New member
i've heard once it detaches from its skeleton, odds of survival are pretty slim, i'm really looking into getting an elegance coral also but am fearful that i'll be fighting a losing battle 
deeper moods
In Memoriam
I saved one elegance coral that was dieing from a LFS, I took it home to see if it would survive. It elegance pretty much did survive but it only on the far end of its shell. Its been very nicely open for 6mnths now. I hope it does not detach it self from its shell.
NeilFox
New member
Stranger things have happened. I started in this hobby over 20 years ago and at that time everyone was obsessed with making sps species grow (propegatation was in its infancy). Still the same today! The difference is that anyone can do it with SPS and enough money. LPS is another story and a bit more of a mystery. It was common for Elegance corals to detach from their skeletons with insufficient strontium ( no survival stories however). Back in the day that was a major additive, it seems as though things have changed though. Please pardon my ignorance, I am following this thread with intrest. Very interesting.
Neil
Neil
lostintheocean
New member
I had a frogspawn bail out a while ago. it has some babie heads sprouting when this occured. I put the baile dout polyps on a shell covered with a torm poece of Lufa rubber baned down. The baby sprouts have started getting larger. Some of the polyps floated around adn disappeared. The one I have under the mesh lufa piece is now HUGE, but i still do not see any evidence od calcium growth. The few LPC corals I have do not seel to grow very well though. My other corals do great. Well anyway this polyp has been secured for about a year now, it has great color adn when expanded is just smaller then a baseball. I am still hoping to see it grow a new skeletion......
PogoMonogo
New member
I have 3 torch coral "babies" in my aquarium that began as polyps that drifted and are now attached to live rock, with a full skeleton and everything.
eswgato
Member
Hey Reefslugs you might want to read up on the cal alk and mag fourm http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1179702 it's a good guide on what mat's to get where to get them and how to mix them good luck
Dustin1300
Reefaholic
I would also have to agree that it can still grow a skeletal structure. Some stated that the skeletal structure would not but how do they think the polyps each started out? Take care of it and good luck!
elegance coral
They call me EC
Good info, but we would be parrots our selves if we didn't have a source for this info. Care to share?
Sorry I missed this post a month ago.:hmm5:
Very good point. Unfortunately, It's kinda hard to prove that this process doesn't take place. It's kinda like trying to prove that we're not being visited by ET, or that Bigfoot and Nessie don't exist. What we have is countless cases of polyp bail out in these corals, and no documented cases of them building a new skeleton and living happily ever after. I find it irresponsible, to say the least, for authors to downplay the significance of this problem by saying, "it's no big deal. The coral will simply grow a new skeleton". Especially when we have absolutely no evidence to support such a claim.
