emperor angel sick, please advice

[Pran]

Hi all

My emperor angel and personifer angel are acting strange, emperor is worst

basically I dont see any ich or any signs of issues on its body

but its sitting on the sand bed, swimming extremely fast, like shooting, and also breating fast.

At night, its sitting or staying on a rock that is infront of the vortech mp40.

Can this be stress or fluke?

if fluke, should I treat with melafix or prazipro?

its eating fine, and my other fish are eating ok.

Please advice

thanks
Pran

 

[b0bab0ey]

When was the last fish (or coral/invert) added to this tank? Was it QT'd? If so, how long? If this is Flukes you should also see head twitching and scratching near the gills. Some other thoughts: Have you check your water parameters? Specifically, ammonia and pH? Also, the breathing heavy and sitting in front of the pump makes me wonder about oxygen. Do you have enough gas exchange in this tank? Are one of the pumps pointed towards the surface? Are you running a skimmer? Do you have a glass top or an open top?

 

[Pran]

When was the last fish (or coral/invert) added to this tank? Was it QT'd? If so, how long? If this is Flukes you should also see head twitching and scratching near the gills. Some other thoughts: Have you check your water parameters? Specifically, ammonia and pH? Also, the breathing heavy and sitting in front of the pump makes me wonder about oxygen. Do you have enough gas exchange in this tank? Are one of the pumps pointed towards the surface? Are you running a skimmer? Do you have a glass top or an open top?

Hi, I added two blue lines last tuesday, but they were at the store for 3 months before I picked it up.

my water is good, I am going to do a water change today.
I think I have enff oxygen bc I have 2 MP40 in a 150 gallon, and I have alpha cone 200 skimmer, and no its open top

I read here, http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/ichparasiticdiseases/a/aaich_oodinium.htm

I think the fish may have velvet b/c

from that website

Symptoms

Most similarly symptomatic to Brooklynella, Oodinium organisms primarily attack the gills first. At the onset of this ich infestation fish often scrap up against objects in the aquarium, lethargy sets in, and rapid respiration develops, which is the result of excess mucus in the gills due to the invasion of the parasites.

->>>This is typically noticed as fish staying at the surface of the water, or remaining in a position where a steady flow of water is present in the aquarium.<<<---


it says to give a fresh water dip, do you think I should do that?
if so how do I do it

thx
Pran

 

[Pran]

here's a video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rikvz93UtU8

 

[MrTuskfish]

Hi, I added two blue lines last tuesday, but they were at the store for 3 months before I picked it up.

my water is good, I am going to do a water change today.
I think I have enff oxygen bc I have 2 MP40 in a 150 gallon, and I have alpha cone 200 skimmer, and no its open top

I read here, http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/ichparasiticdiseases/a/aaich_oodinium.htm

I think the fish may have velvet b/c

from that website

Symptoms

Most similarly symptomatic to Brooklynella, Oodinium organisms primarily attack the gills first. At the onset of this ich infestation fish often scrap up against objects in the aquarium, lethargy sets in, and rapid respiration develops, which is the result of excess mucus in the gills due to the invasion of the parasites.

->>>This is typically noticed as fish staying at the surface of the water, or remaining in a position where a steady flow of water is present in the aquarium.<<<---


it says to give a fresh water dip, do you think I should do that?
if so how do I do it

thx
Pran

When the Angel turned in the video, it sure looked like velvet.
Velvet (oodinium) is a very deadly, contagious , and fast-acting parasite. IMO, it is a bigger reason than ich to always use a QT on new fish. Time at the LFS isn't a reliable indication of a fish's health. A fish with parasites or disease could have been added to the LFS system the day you bought your fish and you'll take the problem home. Unfortunately, assuming this is velvet, you don't have much time. All your fish need to be treated with copper in a QT. IMO IME, this is presently the only cure. A FW dip,(PH adjusted), maybe with some added formalin, may provide some temporary relief (this does nothing for ich); but is not a cure. All your fish need to stay in the QT and the DT remain fishless for 4+ weeks. You really don't have much time, lots of hobbyists have lost all of their fish to velvet while trying a "reef-safe' miracle cure. Sadly, there aren't any. Snorvich has a blog with another treatment plan that works too; http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/blog.php?b=290.

 

[Paul B]

but its sitting on the sand bed, swimming extremely fast, like shooting, and also breating fast.

Breathing fast is a sign of gill paracites, not oxygen deficiency which is extreamly rare in a tank. It could be ich which is what it sounds like to me. Whatever it is, it will probably die without treatment if it is in that bad shape but I can't see it from here.

 

[b0bab0ey]

Assuming it is Velvet, IME copper is the only way to eradicate it. This means you have to QT all your fish, treat with copper (I use Cupramine) and then leave the DT fallow for 8-9 weeks. Basically, same exact procedure as when treating Ich. But if it is Velvet you should see external symptoms, the "dusty or dull velvety sheen" discussed in this article:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-07/sp/feature/

A f/w dip might not be a bad idea to eliminate the possibility of Flukes because that can be treated right in the DT with Prazi. Would save a lot of headaches. To do a f/w dip: use RODI water and match the temp & pH perfectly to your DT. You'll obviously have to use a pH buffer to do this. Do it in a clear glass container. If the fish has Flukes you should see tiny worms fall out and settle on the bottom.

 

[MrTuskfish]

I'm sure no expert with pics; but velvet is usually easiest for me to identify while looking at the fish head-on. A filmy, often milky film covers much of the fish. (I've seen white and golden colors too) When the BL turns at about the 10 sec mark of the video, its flank looks like classic velvet.....IMO.

 

[Pran]

When the Angel turned in the video, it sure looked like velvet.
Velvet (oodinium) is a very deadly, contagious , and fast-acting parasite. IMO, it is a bigger reason than ich to always use a QT on new fish. Time at the LFS isn't a reliable indication of a fish's health. A fish with parasites or disease could have been added to the LFS system the day you bought your fish and you'll take the problem home. Unfortunately, assuming this is velvet, you don't have much time. All your fish need to be treated with copper in a QT. IMO IME, this is presently the only cure. A FW dip,(PH adjusted), maybe with some added formalin, may provide some temporary relief (this does nothing for ich); but is not a cure. All your fish need to stay in the QT and the DT remain fishless for 4+ weeks. You really don't have much time, lots of hobbyists have lost all of their fish to velvet while trying a "reef-safe' miracle cure. Sadly, there aren't any. Snorvich has a blog with another treatment plan that works too; http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/blog.php?b=290.

thank you, can you please tell me how I do this?

I have a 42 gallon brute containter, with fresh salt water that I was going to use for water change today

should I put all the fish in there?

I am in canada, so I only have access to big als for medication

do you know which one I can use from this website

http://www.bigalspets.ca/Health-Sup...e,size_name&searchRank=salesrank&searchPage=1

Seachem Cupramine ???


what is added formalin?
where do I get thx

thanks
Pran

 

[b0bab0ey]

I'm sure no expert with pics; but velvet is usually easiest for me to identify while looking at the fish head-on. A filmy, often milky film covers much of the fish. (I've seen white and golden colors too) When the BL turns at about the 10 sec mark of the video, its flank looks like classic velvet.....IMO.

I just looked at the video and I agree. It's Velvet.

To the OP: You need to setup a QT and act fast if you have any chance of saving these fish!

 

[MrTuskfish]

thank you, can you please tell me how I do this?

I have a 42 gallon brute containter, with fresh salt water that I was going to use for water change today

should I put all the fish in there?

I am in canada, so I only have access to big als for medication

do you know which one I can use from this website

http://www.bigalspets.ca/Health-Sup...e,size_name&searchRank=salesrank&searchPage=1

Seachem Cupramine ???


what is added formalin?
where do I get thx

thanks
Pran

Big Al has Sea Chem Cupramine, the best (IMO & IME) form of copper. A Salifert copper test kit is the best way to monitor it. Formalin may not be available in Canada, I don't know. Its a form of formaldehyde. I'd call Al and ask them, there are some other meds that contain formalin that big Al may have. If using copper, the formalin can be skipped with the dips, but you'll have better results. If you wait for standard shipping to get your meds, it may be too late. Velvet can wipe out a tank in a few days. I can't recommend a Brute for a QT, you'll need heat and ammonia control. but if you can't set up another tank, it could work. be sure to,acclimate the fish to the new water, or use tank water from the DT. If you use SeaChem Cupramine, I'd call their tech-support for help---they're great. 888-SEACHEM, I think.

 

[b0bab0ey]

I am in canada, so I only have access to big als for medication

do you know which one I can use from this website

Seachem Cupramine ???

As MrTuskfish pointed out, Velvet is a fast killer, and I don't think your fish are going to last long enough to order Cupramine online. You really need it TODAY! What about the LFS you bought the two Blue Lines from? Surely, they must have some copper based med (Coppersafe of Cupramine)?

 

[Pran]

thank you alll, I will ask them and do it today

Which fish do you think have Velvet

the personifer angel (the one that turned) or the emperor at teh 15 sec mark
thx

 

[MrTuskfish]

As MrTuskfish pointed out, Velvet is a fast killer, and I don't think your fish are going to last long enough to order Cupramine online. You really need it TODAY! What about the LFS you bought the two Blue Lines from? Surely, they must have some copper based med (Coppersafe of Cupramine)?

Yeah, or Fed-Ex overnight would be 2nd best. there's another active velvet thread with good opinions active now as well ;http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2105427

 

[b0bab0ey]

thank you alll, I will ask them and do it today

Which fish do you think have Velvet

the personifer angel (the one that turned) or the emperor at teh 15 sec mark
thx

The Personifer that turned at around the 10 sec mark. But if one has it, the entire tank is now likely infected (or soon will be). Meaning you'll need to QT & treat ALL your fish in this tank.

 

[MrTuskfish]

thank you alll, I will ask them and do it today

Which fish do you think have Velvet

the personifer angel (the one that turned) or the emperor at teh 15 sec mark
thx

The Pers. is the one that jumped out at me. However, if one fish has it, they all do (or soon will).

EDIT: b0bab0ey and I typing at the same time, almost word ford----creepy!

 

[Pran]

I'm sure no expert with pics; but velvet is usually easiest for me to identify while looking at the fish head-on. A filmy, often milky film covers much of the fish. (I've seen white and golden colors too) When the BL turns at about the 10 sec mark of the video, its flank looks like classic velvet.....IMO.

Thank you MrTuskfish, sorry if I am wrong, but I heard Velvet will kill the fish and wipe the tank with 1-2 days.

That fish @ the 10 sec mark is a personifier angel, and it was like that for the past 2 weeks and eating very aggresvely.

Please look at the emp, at 15 sec, thats the one I am worried about.

Thank you all so much
Pran

 

[Pran]

The Pers. is the one that jumped out at me. However, if one fish has it, they all do (or soon will).

EDIT: b0bab0ey and I typing at the same time, almost word ford----creepy!

thank you

also I set up an Aqua UV 25 watts sterlizer on last monday

would UV give any harm to the fish?

thx

 

[b0bab0ey]

Please look at the emp, at 15 sec, thats the one I am worried about.

I can't see anything visibly wrong with him except for the fast breathing/not swimming around. But it's not very closeup.

I have a 42 gallon brute containter, with fresh salt water that I was going to use for water change today

should I put all the fish in there?

IMO that approach is only a temp solution as you will need to do WCs to keep the ammonia down and see the fish to know if they're getting better. Below are two good links on how to setup a QT:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1866770&highlight=setting+qt

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1990651&highlight=setting+qt

 

[MrTuskfish]

Thank you MrTuskfish, sorry if I am wrong, but I heard Velvet will kill the fish and wipe the tank with 1-2 days.

That fish @ the 10 sec mark is a personifier angel, and it was like that for the past 2 weeks and eating very aggresvely.

Please look at the emp, at 15 sec, thats the one I am worried about.

Thank you all so much
Pran

I can't tell much about the Emperor from the video. There is no magic timeline for velvet, lots of variables. But, like we've been saying, if the Emp. doesn't show it now, and it is velvet, it will. The fish can be infected, especially in the gills, before the classic velvet coating appears. I would do a FW dip (read snorvich's blog) if any of these fish are in real distress, breathing problems, etc.and it looks like you're loosing him. At that point, sure nothing to lose. Again, assuming its velvet, and i'm almost sure it is. Dips can get rid of some parasites and give fish some TEMPORARY relief, but it isn't a cure.