Englishrebel's 260 Gallon System Build
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EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
Bax
Premium Member
Alan
You're doing an awesome job on this build!
For in tank flow, I have never used the Korilias, so I can't speak to their flow but they are less expensive for sure. I have used CLs, and I am done with them. I am now using both the MP-40W (I like the Reef Crest setting) and a pair of 6100's each pulsing on a single controller in my 120.
IME the Tunzes sieze all the time and require frequent, long vinigar soaks to clean up. My VorTech spun a bearing early on which Ice Cap replaced and it has run flawlessly and very quietly ever since, it is nearly three years old. When mounting them you do have to tweak them until they are centered and balanced or they will rattle.
As far as flow goes, they produce very different flow paterns. The MP-40 is a very wide flow, the Tunzes much more compact. I really like them together and plan on running two of each in my next tank, a 200 g. It makes for really great, very random flow.
Just my $0.02
You're doing an awesome job on this build!
For in tank flow, I have never used the Korilias, so I can't speak to their flow but they are less expensive for sure. I have used CLs, and I am done with them. I am now using both the MP-40W (I like the Reef Crest setting) and a pair of 6100's each pulsing on a single controller in my 120.
IME the Tunzes sieze all the time and require frequent, long vinigar soaks to clean up. My VorTech spun a bearing early on which Ice Cap replaced and it has run flawlessly and very quietly ever since, it is nearly three years old. When mounting them you do have to tweak them until they are centered and balanced or they will rattle.
As far as flow goes, they produce very different flow paterns. The MP-40 is a very wide flow, the Tunzes much more compact. I really like them together and plan on running two of each in my next tank, a 200 g. It makes for really great, very random flow.
Just my $0.02
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
Bax
Thanks for the complement and $0.02 are always welcome.
I think I'm leaning toward the Vortechs are well.
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
BAX
What would you recommend for a 60x30? Would you use several of the MP20s or the MP40s? I guess you can't get the wireless mode with the MP20. I'm thinking of splitting the return using a SCWD to the front corners as I will have a 48" external overflow on the back. I really don't want to put any on the RH end panel as that will be fully viewable from the sunroom. the LH end is not really visible much from the living room as there is a wall there that only allows the front half of the tank to be seen.
Any thoughts?
Bax
Premium Member
Alan
The 200 I am scheming right now would be 48" x 36" viewed from front and right end. I am thinking about two MP-20s and two of the newer Tunzes as well. given the short length, I think you may get by with the MP20s, I have not tried one out yet to give you a first hand opinion on that. I would put two MPs on the one end you won't view , pushing water longways, and two Tunzes on the back directed as you like. I like the idea of a Sea Swirl , OM Squirt, or SCWD for the return although either does restric flow a bit, I still like anything that adds to the randomness.
I will say that I have a multi controler for my Tunzes now, but I've never tried it as I kinda like the randomness that running multiple single controlers provides, and I can't see how I would differ on that with the MPs. So I am not inclined to walk away from the MP20s because they aren't wirless yet. In really big 6 foot plus tanks syncing is probably a big avantage, to move mass water, but in shorter tanks I am not so sure it is so important as the PHs have more impact over the shorter distance & volume IMO. At least not as important as mass rondom surging and that is what you'll get from either the Tunze or VorTech PHs.
Anyway, that's my random thoughts in the topic .. did I say random enough?
The 200 I am scheming right now would be 48" x 36" viewed from front and right end. I am thinking about two MP-20s and two of the newer Tunzes as well. given the short length, I think you may get by with the MP20s, I have not tried one out yet to give you a first hand opinion on that. I would put two MPs on the one end you won't view , pushing water longways, and two Tunzes on the back directed as you like. I like the idea of a Sea Swirl , OM Squirt, or SCWD for the return although either does restric flow a bit, I still like anything that adds to the randomness.
I will say that I have a multi controler for my Tunzes now, but I've never tried it as I kinda like the randomness that running multiple single controlers provides, and I can't see how I would differ on that with the MPs. So I am not inclined to walk away from the MP20s because they aren't wirless yet. In really big 6 foot plus tanks syncing is probably a big avantage, to move mass water, but in shorter tanks I am not so sure it is so important as the PHs have more impact over the shorter distance & volume IMO. At least not as important as mass rondom surging and that is what you'll get from either the Tunze or VorTech PHs.
Anyway, that's my random thoughts in the topic .. did I say random enough?
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
Bax
I'm surprised that you recommended the Tunzes given your scathing review of them in your earlier post
I'm think two MP40s on the LH side. Should play well with the SCWD.
I'm surprised that you recommended the Tunzes given your scathing review of them in your earlier post
I'm think two MP40s on the LH side. Should play well with the SCWD.
Bax
Premium Member
Oh I really dislike cleaning them sooooo often, but I like the flow! So I use em.
Two MP-40s will be great! If you run them synced at 100% that'll kick 6,000 gph across the tank during a high pulse. Now that's some flow! And bring your surf board!!!
I just got off the phone with a friend of mine who just got a MP-20 and a CaRx for Christmas. So when I help him set up the reactor I'll get a chance to mess around with the MP-20 a bit.
Two MP-40s will be great! If you run them synced at 100% that'll kick 6,000 gph across the tank during a high pulse. Now that's some flow! And bring your surf board!!!
I just got off the phone with a friend of mine who just got a MP-20 and a CaRx for Christmas. So when I help him set up the reactor I'll get a chance to mess around with the MP-20 a bit.
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
Let me know what the MP20s are like. My tank will hold around 180 gallons and the return pump will probably flow around 1200 GPH. I guess I need about 30 x tank volume is that correct? If so I need around 4500 GPH from the in-tank power heads. So two MP45s might be too much. I'm thinking more distributed flow -- top, middle and sand bed. However I believe that you can set the speed of the MP45s with the controller is that right?
Any thoughts?
Thanks
BTW what was the reason for the egg crate on the bottom of your tank? You mentioned about tank breakages. Does this reduce the chance?
OABTW I love your sig. I switched from a PC to to a Mac a year ago and i LOVE it.
Any thoughts?
Thanks
BTW what was the reason for the egg crate on the bottom of your tank? You mentioned about tank breakages. Does this reduce the chance?
OABTW I love your sig. I switched from a PC to to a Mac a year ago and i LOVE it.
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plyr58
New member
Alan, the more I think about it, the more I think I am going to go with 2 MP40Ws and a couple of the big Koralias. It seems like once you get above 150 gallons or so you will spend a thousand dollars on power heads no matter how you slice it.
My tank will be a little larger than yours (and 6' instead of 5') but the Vortechs just seem too perfect.
My tank will be a little larger than yours (and 6' instead of 5') but the Vortechs just seem too perfect.
tonyf
New member
Alan, if I may ... consider water movement in excess of 40x net display water volume, particularly as you are addicted to coloured sticks
Two MP40's will be perfect either in wireless or standard version. The second pump can be run in the 'slave' mode to mimick the primary pump. The output is fully adjaustable so the pumps can be dialled backed or wound up to meet your exacting requirements. You've seen Hurlock's tank ... although very large, he has an excellent grasp of water movement concepts. I'm going to be adopting his 'dry box' technique for an all Vortech gyro setup in my tank.Cheers,
Tone
new2sw776784
New member
From what i have read the MP20 isn't as great as the MP40 most recommend the mp 40's Heck there are nano tanks that are running the MP 40. A thread to check out would be Tswiftys.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1503874&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
there is the link if i remember correctly he goes into a little depth about the MP 40. If it isn't in this thread it is in the end of his 90 gallon thread.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1310919&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
Here is also another thread about the MP 40 debate.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1518573
Just a little info to pass along.
Also nice job on everything.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1503874&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
there is the link if i remember correctly he goes into a little depth about the MP 40. If it isn't in this thread it is in the end of his 90 gallon thread.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1310919&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
Here is also another thread about the MP 40 debate.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1518573
Just a little info to pass along.
Also nice job on everything.
Bax
Premium Member
I like to shoot for over 50 x if everything was on at one time. You also want to consider the flow and feel that all areas of the tank are getting some pulsing with minimal dead spots.
I used the egg crate to spread the weight of the LR. Next tank I am thinking about a sheet of PVC so I can solvent weld some stands right to it to raise the LR up and spread the weight.
I used the egg crate to spread the weight of the LR. Next tank I am thinking about a sheet of PVC so I can solvent weld some stands right to it to raise the LR up and spread the weight.
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
As my tank bottom is not tempered I think that putting some "cushioning" material in will be a good idea -- I would hate to drop a piece of rock on the bare glass. :eek2: With egg crate I would be concerned about sand dead spots in the grid. I think the PVC is the way to go. Is it necessary to seal it around the edges to avoid stuff getting under it and causing anaerobic areas?
Bax
Premium Member
It's kinda of a rip off of the AGE tanks without the hugely expensive, and very cool, acrylic to PVC fuse process they use, and I prefer a glass tank. Anything that puts a pressure point onto the glass, bottom or sides, makes me squirrely. A bottom like this would spread the weight and solidly secure the platforms. Only draw back is you'll physically have to cut them out to make a major change so they have to go right where you want them. I am considering grey, scd 80 PVC for the sheet and gluing a few scd 80 1 1/2 & 2" couplings to the general area I want the rockwork, then I can pressure fit scd 80 PVC pipe and fittings to build the stands. The scd 80 is super strong and a good color to start that'll hide away quickly. In this way I can still move it a round a bit while aquascaping, at least until the coraline cements the PVC in place too
Bax
Premium Member
The egg crate does emerge here and there, no big deal. I suspect it of fostering neucience algae so I want to stay away from it in my tanks, sump and frag sections except for some minor use here and there to the greatest extent possible.
I think the PVC could be siliconed down, but I don't think it is an absolute requirment. I doubt much will get under it once you pile a couple a hundred pounds of coral, rock and sand on it, so I do not plan to seal it down. Mini britles should be able to get there too for the small amount that can collect there.
The egg crate has remained clean in my 120 DT with a shallow sand bed where critters can move around it and feast. But in my 75 g BB fuge, I am very disapointed with how much detritus gets caught in the crate. I have to blow it out and there are spots I can't get to. So at some point, it is coming out and getting replaced with PVC. The crate will stay in the 120 DT as I am not going down that road to remove it now. But, I'll not use the egg crate for that purpose again.
... Live and learn, it's the reef'n way :rollface:
stunreefer
Reef Hugger
Alan it seems people have really given you a great idea of the differences between VTs and Tunzes. I've done a ton of research as I'm planning flow for my 48x36x24, and I'm leaning hard towards VTs. The main reason... aesthetics. Can't beat them. I've seen four running at one time on Mikes (mcliffy2) tank, and they are not "loud" IMO. Maybe hum more than a Tunze would, but...
At first I was concerned when hearing about VTs needing service, but it seems Ecotech has outstanding customer service, and even if they do need servicing, you'll only be out a pump for a week or so. I've kept an eye on the Ecotech forum (under sponsors here on RC) for the past six months or so, just watching for any major complaints, etc. Everything has always been solved quickly, and most of the noise issues are indeed user error when positioning wet and dry sides.
With that said Tunzes ROCK! I'm leaning VT because:
1. aesthetics
2. cord out of tank
3. motor out of tank
If Tunze could match my 1-3 above, I'd go Tunze in a heartbeat as they've always been great to me. :thumbsup:
At first I was concerned when hearing about VTs needing service, but it seems Ecotech has outstanding customer service, and even if they do need servicing, you'll only be out a pump for a week or so. I've kept an eye on the Ecotech forum (under sponsors here on RC) for the past six months or so, just watching for any major complaints, etc. Everything has always been solved quickly, and most of the noise issues are indeed user error when positioning wet and dry sides.
With that said Tunzes ROCK! I'm leaning VT because:
1. aesthetics
2. cord out of tank
3. motor out of tank
If Tunze could match my 1-3 above, I'd go Tunze in a heartbeat as they've always been great to me. :thumbsup:
Yep, unless you want MaxiJets with Sure Flo mods<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14085586#post14085586 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by plyr58
It seems like once you get above 150 gallons or so you will spend a thousand dollars on power heads no matter how you slice it.
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
stunreefer
Thanks for your input on this. I think having no cords hanging inside the tank is a winner for me. I have ordered an external overflow so I can keep the inside of the tank nice and open. The last thing I want is having cords running all over the place.
I'm still up in the air as to whether to get a SCWD or an OM.
BTW are you going with a Marineland as you are getting a 36" deep? I saw a 36x36 in a LFS and they look really nice. I considered going 36 but cut it back to 30 because I didn't want to have trouble getting to the back center bottom for doing aquascaping or retrieving anything as I won't have rear access.
Thanks for your input on this. I think having no cords hanging inside the tank is a winner for me. I have ordered an external overflow so I can keep the inside of the tank nice and open. The last thing I want is having cords running all over the place.
I'm still up in the air as to whether to get a SCWD or an OM.
BTW are you going with a Marineland as you are getting a 36" deep? I saw a 36x36 in a LFS and they look really nice. I considered going 36 but cut it back to 30 because I didn't want to have trouble getting to the back center bottom for doing aquascaping or retrieving anything as I won't have rear access.
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