erectus just had first brood.. now what?

[BlueCat1949]

Putting live rock in the fry tank is a bad idea. You will need to do water changes several times a day and keep the sides of the aquarium clean. I used 2 gallon fish bowls and sterilized everything every 5 days.

I suggest doing more reading on the subject of raising H. erectus fry so you will be ready next time. Learning to raise seahorse fry is difficult until you get a system and routine down pat. As to the reidi fry they can be much harder than erectus. Good luck.

 

[BlueCat1949]

Silence is never good sign in posts like this one.

 

[CTaylor]

Hi Ray and Blue,
There's only one horse left, and he's probably not going to make it. I read that I can refirgerate the brine shrimp babies. But they died within three days. So I had nothing to feed the about 10 the remained after about Wednesday. about the same time looking back allt he ones in the tank died also. So I wont be fridging them again in the future for future seahorse babies unless I find out how to perserve them alive correctly.
**I actually bought a 30" stand for my 20 Gallon long tank, and have a light coming also. I have a large sponge filter. So, blue cat this is not a good idea? << I'd like to use this set up as I just set it up :sad2:

And as far as bacteria I understand the point that they can cause infection of course. But the bacteria were in the original tank water that the babies were in. So why keep everything so sterile, when the babies were already exposed to bacteria? Similar live rock was in the SH tank they came from. Keeping everything sterile after they already were exposed to such bacteria at the start could just make them less resistant in the future, no? << Not disputing you, just trying to make sense of it also.
Thanks!

 

[BlueCat1949]

Hi Ray and Blue,
There's only one horse left, and he's probably not going to make it. I read that I can refirgerate the brine shrimp babies. But they died within three days. So I had nothing to feed the about 10 the remained after about Wednesday. about the same time looking back allt he ones in the tank died also. So I wont be fridging them again in the future for future seahorse babies unless I find out how to perserve them alive correctly.
**I actually bought a 30" stand for my 20 Gallon long tank, and have a light coming also. I have a large sponge filter. So, blue cat this is not a good idea? << I'd like to use this set up as I just set it up :sad2:

And as far as bacteria I understand the point that they can cause infection of course. But the bacteria were in the original tank water that the babies were in. So why keep everything so sterile, when the babies were already exposed to bacteria? Similar live rock was in the SH tank they came from. Keeping everything sterile after they already were exposed to such bacteria at the start could just make them less resistant in the future, no? << Not disputing you, just trying to make sense of it also.
Thanks!

Keeping things "sterile" is because the fry can not handle bad water quality and exposure to ammonia or nitrates etc. Anything from the parent tank can be a breeding ground for hydroids which can kill the fry outright. Hydroids and bacteria can go crazy in closed system with lots of food. I started my fry off by putting them in a 2 gallon plastic fish bowl that was hung on the top, front rim of the parent tank and filled with natural seawater( I only used natural SW because it was always the same and all I had to do is make it the right temperature). I realize that natural SW is not available to everyone. I had to drive five hours round trip to Scripps Pier in La Jolla and fill up 12, five gallon jugs once a week.

I used sponge filters in the grow out thanks with older fry and juvies but relied on frequent feedings and water changes, sometimes up to 5 a day at the beginning and when the fry got through the first couple of weeks I moved them to 10 gallon tanks. I like the small bowls for two reasons, one you could get a good concentrations of food with out major overfeeding and two I could move the fry to another identical fishbowl setup after five days and sterilize the older bowl and everything in it with watered down bleach.

There are many ways to go with fry raising Dan at seahorse source has the most comprehensive fry rearing system that I have seen and does a great job. In the home with a single brood, but I had up to 10 batches of fry at one time when I got going, I like my method. I was able to raise several hundred erectus fry to adulthood and sell enough to put a small dent in the many $$$$ I spent on my hobby.

The hardest part about raising seahorses is the attention to detail. Anyone with a good knowledge of SW aquariums can do it if they are willing to put in the time and learn from mistakes. Seeing a tank full of thriving juvie seahorses makes it all worthwhile.

P. S. Ray has given you a good heads up on feeding the fry so that is one more thing you will have to learn.

 

[CTaylor]

Hi guys...
This thread is a wealth of info, over and above what I have found. On top of the mistakes I been through along the way.
I'm going to get the two fish bowls and use the 20 long as a grow out tank, for WHEN I have babies large enough to put in there. I should be able to put a few generations in there, right? Feeding might be tricky then, but the space is at least large enough (I think).
**Would very small sponge filters for the fish bowls help with water quality?
I dont think the male is prego now. But I didnt think he was before either. His pouch is not deflated, but it's not round either, it looks slightly full without bulging. I'll post a pic, but he's very elusive. The female is out in the open 5 times as much as he is. At times I thought he died and disappeared << didnt see him for days. Only to reappear and happy later.

 

[rayjay]

Before you get too much into buying things, I'd be doing more research first to be sure of how to advance from where you are right now. Fish bowls may NOT be the best way IMO, if you are going to raise several batches. I personally wouldn't go with less than about 6g of water for about 300 fry to start with, upping that weekly as they grow. As you progress further into their survival you will probably want to make changes in what you are doing, as most of us have done as we learn.
I personally don't use anything other than aeration, greenwater, and water changes for the first few weeks of a batch, eventually moving them to 20g tanks with sterilized cycled rock in the sumps for biological filtration. Depending on how many survive, you make have to move then into much larger systems as they grow. I go to 37g tall after the 20, and then to a 90 to finish off before I sell them at about 6 months.
With every species I've had, the male is more reclusive than the female, especially when they are pregnant. I moved all my live rock to the sumps so they couldn't hide from me as much, only in the hitching/decor still in the tanks.

 

[pfan151]

Any thoughts on using a marine pure block in the fry tank? I have a few dry ones at the moment. I was considering setting up a tank just to get the bacteria going on them and them placing a block in my fry tank. My erectus just had its first batch of fry (that I noticed before being sucked into the overflow at least). They are going on 10 days so far with minimal losses.

 

[CTaylor]

I obviously have no help to offer if you seen the thread lol, but congrats pfan

 

[vlangel]

Something to think about is maybe just try to raise small batches of fry first. I had success my very first time but I think that is largely due to the fact that I started with only 22 fry, (I gave the rest away). That way you need less food and not as much space. With all the cleaning and sterilizing it was more manageable on a small scale as were water changes. In the end I raised 15 to 5 + months. I was doing it mostly for the experience rather than the money, which was good because I was lucky if I broke even, ha ha! I think to make money you need to do larger batches.

 

[CTaylor]

Update: I'm on batch 2 now. They are in a 20 gallon long tank with a lightly bubbling sponge filter in the corner. I happened to see the male give birth and saved about all the babies.

I have the brine shrimp eggs in the hatcher now. Should be hatched by the a.m. (24 hrs from the birth). *question is in regard to sterilzing with h2o2. From above, I seem to straight add the 250 ml to the brine hatchery, assuming that hatchery is 750 ml. and then I siphon off the bbs... To collect in a separate container (?). I then keep those in a new batch of brine water with aeration (???). And THIS I feed the baby horses?

Assuming above is correct, when I try to enrich the bbs with selco and /or phytoplankton, aren't they immediately non-sterile again? And then I need to to the process over again???

OR **What if I just soak briefly a feeding-sized portion in h2o2 . Say, siphon off some bbs from the hatchery (which itself has no h2o2 in it). If this is something like 10 ml, then add 3-4 ml h2o2, and after a few mins strain off the bbs with brine shrimp net, and rinse with RO DI water, then feed to the horses?

Thanks!

 

[redhorse]

What is the H2O2 for?

 

[rayjay]

The peroxide is for sterilization.
CT, you add 250ml of peroxide to 750ml of the culture water with the hatched brine cysts in it and using strong aeration, so, you need the container to be at least one liter, or, scale back the amounts of both for a smaller container.
Then, remove the airline to allow settlement of the nauplii to the bottom.
Five minutes after removing the airline, siphon off the nauplii from the bottom of the container, being careful not to siphon up the guck from the upper layers. Collect in an appropriate mesh and rinse with room temperature water before feeding them to the fry, or transferring to an enrichment container.
I don't know what others do but I sterilize at whatever step I am going to feed to the fry after. As I enrich, I sterilize after enrichment.
Remember that the nauplii CAN'T feed until they reach the second instar stage as they don't have a completed digestive tract at instar one. For me I use a general guideline of 24 hours hatching, 24 hours growout to instar II, and enrich with Dan's Feed for two 12 hour stages with new water and new enrichment for each 12 hour stage.
Some people like the peroxide aiding in separation of the nauplii from the cysts and garbage but it can be done without and then transfer to a growout/enrichment container from which you can remove some, sterilize, and add to the fry.
Remember that the nauplii star using the egg sack as soon as they emerge, and because they emerge at differing times, by the time the last ones have hatched, the first ones are quite diminished in nutrition so if you have need of food before you have enriched the nauplii, then start separating hatched nauplii as soon as you can see there are sufficient to harvest, leaving the remainder to continue hatching for later enrichment.
Phyto, unless you have a good blend of types, is not sufficient for enrichment.
Use the Selco, or Dan's Food is even better using a blender for minimum two minutes to micronize the particles, Selco or Dan's Food.