erectus just had first brood.. now what?

[rayjay]

There are VERY FEW LFSs that know much about seahorses let alone raising their fry, even though many of them THINK they do.
Yes, you will see them snick at food they want.
For enrichment there are better products, see http://seahorsesource.com/?wpsc_product_category=enrichments
I believe that the Tisbe are also too large although their nauplii might be OK.
Although I've only used Nitokra Lacustris for fry, ReefPodsâ„¢ Parvocalanus is the pod I've seen mentioned by some hobbyists using pods for fry and Dan also has those. http://seahorsesource.com/?wpsc-product=reefpods-parvocalanus
It's really bad timing the birthing occurring when seahorsesource is affected by the hurricane as Dan has anything you need pretty well for raising the fry.
Unfortunately, I think the chances of survival are quite small (not impossible) if you don't get them eating something today, as by the time they get food tomorrow or later, their systems will have become stressed and weakened.

 

[CTaylor]

Back from far away LFS lol... have rotifers supposedly. I put some in tank. And I see no reaction at all. I also cant actually see the rotifers. :-/

 

[CTaylor]

I think i was sold a bottle of salt water... I cant see any rotifers at all. I looked rotifers up on youtube. They are not much smaller than the pods. The pods I have are tiny, maybe 1/4 mm. But the horses not eating those. They still have the yolk sacs, I think. Is the little ball at base of their tail not the yolk sac? *I did start a brine shrimp hatchery. So now in a race for time.

 

[rayjay]

Rotifers are extremely hard to see unless you have the right lighting coming through at the right angle, and sometimes the background behind the container can help or hinder the viewing. I found that a tinge of greenwater in the culture will help accent the rotifers, but much more than a hint of colour can make it harder to see them.
I believe the average saltwater rotifer adult will be around the .2mm range, a little more and a little less, but about 1/2 to 5/8 the size of Tisbe pods and roughly 1/5th the size of tiggers.
I think the egg sack depletes fairly quickly but the sack itself may take a bit longer to disappear. To be honest, I've never bothered to take notice of that point specifically.
Make sure to rinse whatever food you do use before feeding to the fry, and with your brine hatching, don't allow any hatch water to come in contact with the fry water.
It's actually the best idea IMO, to either decap or at least sterilize the cysts before hatching, but many use peroxide to sterilize after the hatching as that process is also seen to make separation of empty and unhatched cysts from the live nauplii easier.

 

[CTaylor]

My babies may be eating whatever I'm giving them, rotifers, pods. Since all of them are still alive. *when I rinse the brine shrimp in H2O2 , do i just pour it over them (in a strainer net)? Thanks

 

[rayjay]

It can be a long time for them to die from lack of food, and, once they go a few days without, they won't eat again usually. I know that adults can live months after they stop eating before they pass on.
From Dan Underwood of seahorsesource.com:
3 % Hydrogen Peroxide = 33.9 mg/ml according to my calculation. I have seen many figure it at 30 mg/ml. To use this I would add 250 ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide to 750 ml water.
When I do this, I add the artemia to a hatching cone with strong aeration for mixing and then add the peroxide. After 45 seconds to 1 minute, I pull the airline. The live artemia will migrate to the bottom of the cone. Unhatched cysts, dead artemia and debris will collect on the surface in the foam. At the end of 5 minutes, I open the valve on the bottom of the cone and drain the live artemia into a net with freshwater running. I stop about 1 inch from the foam layer.

Now for me, I don't have hatching cones and use pop bottles for Hatcher/Enricher and use air line with rigid tube attached to siphon off the nauplii.
Mesh size would be best at about 120 mesh which is about 125 microns. A few decades ago I used to use old nylons but at my age I don't know if they are still suitable as they may have changed with modern technology.

 

[CTaylor]

will i see lots of snicks in a short time if they are eating? Because as I stare at them, I see a snick here and there, like once every minute I guess (that's not per seahorse, that is overall).

thanks

 

[rayjay]

That would depend on the density of the food they are being attracted to.

 

[CTaylor]

are they going to chase after it? or does it need to be so dense they re engulfed? I'm guessing something between the two?
THanks.. you are the best help :-D

 

[rayjay]

Some will hunt and some will just snick as they pass by the food they might want.
Not the best help, just available more than most people because I'm long time retired and have nothing else on the go.

 

[CTaylor]

I'm pretty sure my Reidi had babies las tnight also lol. He was squeezing his pouch a lot for a few mins. I THINK i saw a baby pop out. I Couldnt watch too long, as I was working (work at home).
Do they normally give birth in morning or night?
**And YES I for sure just saw a baby go after a pod . Snicked and missed, but at least attempted!

 

[rayjay]

For H. reidi babies, it is much harder to accomplish and you will probably need a lot more rotifers than you have right now as they produce smaller fry needing a bit smaller food than standard brine nauplii.
I had some luck using San Fran cysts as San Fran artemia are a little smaller than the Great Salt Lake artemia, but, I had better luck starting them off with enriched rotifers and better still with the nitokra lacustris added to the mix.
Most seahorses I've had over the years almost always kicked out a few warning babies a day or two ahead of the main birthing. I don't recall any birthing starting at a time other than early morning just before or just after lights on time, but the warning babies seem to be able to kick out just about any time of day.
I haven't had reidi fry for a long time now but here is a page for my method at the time. http://www.angelfire.com/ab/rayjay/fry.html
I used the same method for when I first started rearing erectus, other than erectus fed easily on enriched brine nauplii, but eventually I changed my method to use the "muck bucket" approach which was just a "muck bucket" from TSC stores here in Canada that I drilled for using with a sump, and water and aeration directed the flow around in a circle.
Dan has pictures of his round tub set ups on seahorse.org.

 

[CTaylor]

RayJay,
Yes I had a feeling about the Redi's . I didtnt want to attempt those for a while. He may not have given birht, but lookes like he was having major contractions, with one baby coming out that I saw, I could be wrong though.
**I do see the babies goign after the food.. I think its the pods they go after. I havent seen a successful snick, but some chase them for a bit til they get tired. When the baby brine are ready tomorrow morning (or late tonight) I'm going to put enough density in the nursery so the babies have less trouble seeing one.

 

[rayjay]

As the cysts don't hatch all at once, you CAN do a partial harvest as soon as enough have hatched. Let the culture sit for five minutes and siphon off some of the live ones. You can use a strong light to get them to congregate together for higher concentration. Then pour through the mesh with the fluid going back to the hatcher, and the recovered nauplii going to a container to peroxide and rinse. For now, forget about enrichment and just get the newly hatched nauplii in for feeding. I would change out the fry container water first though so it starts off fresh.
Once you have the enrichment you can grow out the hatched nauplii for a day, and then enrich them for one or two stages of 12 hours, with new water and enrichment for each stage. They will be gut loaded after the first 12 hours, but will be more nutritious after the second 12 hour stage as the nutrients will have become assimilated into their flesh.

 

[rayjay]

Should have also added, that you CAN'T be too clean for seahorse tanks, and that goes doubly for the fry. (bacterial reasons)

 

[CTaylor]

Rayjay,
I just fed them a bunch of baby brine. Good enough density for them to be surrounded by the brine at all parts of the tank (which is currently 5 gallons of water in a 10 gallon aquarium), with bubbler and a live rock << this will change to 20 gallon Long, with sponge filter by end of the week. Anyhow, I see some snick, but it's not a snick fest lol. They at least seem to be more active since the baby brine are in the water.
**Should I see a "snick fest"<< constant snicking that I dont have to "look" for, it's just happening all the time from each baby?

Thanks!

 

[CTaylor]

**so far no one seems to be dead yet. maybe 1 or 2 out of the 40-50 that I have. Is that a sign of anything? or is it normal for all the babies to survive 4 complete 24 hour days?

 

[rayjay]

The fry at times may consume so much food they pass living nauplii through their digestive tracts, but mostly it will vary with the individual much like humans were some eat faster than others. The majority will eat at a certain pace and others with be a little faster or slower.
Survival for any given lengths of time will vary from batch to batch IME, but losses will usually start happening within a week to ten days.

 

[CTaylor]

I seem to have half left, about 24 from the 40+ at the start. But I dont see any dead ones anywhere. I would see the dead babies, right? I did a water change last night, which I'll do eery few days, butI was sure to not suck any babies up. Do they somehow get disintegrated that fast?
Do you suggest using fresh made salt water or changing out with the Main seahorse tank water for water changes? Would it matter to the babies, since they are getting ammonia and nitrite free water either way? It might matter to the SH tank if i'm spiking their levels. I did it last night and teh SH tank seems fine now.

THanks again!

 

[rayjay]

Yes, you should see dead babies but only for a couple days until they disintegrate.
I would ONLY use aged new salt water, never water from another tank in use. That would be adding an additional bacteria threat to the fry.