Experience With Purple Queen Anthias - Must feed often

[Angel*Fish]

Fair enough; though you ought to change your sig then :lol:. While I think the ornamental trade probably get unfairly criticized for it's impact (versus other, better funded industries ), clearly it has an impact.

Sorry about that! I forget it's there, but I can't bring myself to remove it because I lost all of them in Hurricane Ike. I was heartbroken. That hurricane killed all my fish and literally wiped out the place we used to vacation every summer. That sig line is sort of all I have left. Usually I pretty much stay in the lounge where everyone knows me and rarely venture out here

Not intending to attack, my apologies, I was simply questioning your place in criticizing those who buy fish from LFS because it supports something illicit or "bad".

We harvest/fish and kill billions of fish to eat them, as Simon said, so I don't necessarily see the negative to the hobby as others might. Again, as long as the fish is not threatened or endangered, I don't see the need to call others out (as you originally did) for buying Tukas.

Thanks for that. I would say that even if I was buying fish everyday, it wouldn't make change whether it's right or wrong. I know it's a big world and everyone has different sensibilities. Certainly I eat fish. Others would not.

I just don't like killing so many just so one can make it to my aquarium for my amusement. And I think the ones who make the trip are put through a lot of stress and/or suffering only to fall into unskilled hands and more suffering. What level of awareness fish have, I don't know, but many fish are smarter than the average person thinks.

Getting to where I am was a process - obviously I didn't always have these views. And for some of what I learned, some sweet little fish paid for with their lives it and I don't want to do that anymore.

Anyway headed back to the lounge, carry on

 

[ca1ore]

Update on mine .....

Of the original five, one died in QT from some kind of bacterial infection, a second one freaked and died when being transferred to the display, and three survive. Of those, two eat well and look good; one also eats, but not as well and is thin. I feed this tank 3-4 times a day with a mixture of frozen rotifers, capelin roe, cyclops, mini mysis and spirulina brine. The thin one seems only to eat the roe, so I have been increasing how much I add to the mix. I also have a blueberry seafan in this tank, so the mix is intended in part for it also.

 

[firemountain]

Waitei Anthias feeding experience.

Waitei Anthias feeding experience.

I want to add and update this thread since the Waitei is considered a difficult fish as well.

Some of the best advice I can give with my success to getting these difficult fish to eat is to attempt to recreate their habitat, from water flow, to temp., etc, etc.

I ran my Waitei through the TTM which was insanely difficult. They wouldn't eat anything. I tried Cyclopeze, ROE, Arctic Pods, live Black works, live brine shrimp, PE Mysis, Caviar fish eggs, Spiriluna Mysis, 3 different kinds of pellets, you name it.

I was polluting my tank with all different kinds of food in the hopes of getting them to eat, maintain their energy, and not lose weight knowing that the TTM is a long haul. I was doing a lot of water changes and siphoning out the old food so my nitrates wouldnt go through the roof.

My luck changed when I went back to my original statement about recreating their habitat. I first dropped the temp down to like 75. Then I added a Sicce power head on my wave surfer.

BUT THE KEY WAS JUICING MY OWN GARLIC, and adding a drop to the tank very time I fed them to act as a stimulant. I heard a lot of guys having success with the Kent Marine Extreme Garlic, but I read that the key ingredient Allicin loses its potency quickly. This was why I figured the fresh would be best.

After juicing a whole clove, I added a drop to the tank; and then added pellets, Hikari Spirulina mysis, and Cyclopeze. They ate it all. I used the garlic addition for the next several days at each feeding and it was like magic. Yesterday....I fed them without the garlic addition, and they still went after the food with no issues.

The main reason for introducing the pellets early on is so that way I can get food in them multiple times a day when I am not home or go on vacation. Plus....when they eventually hit my DT...I run 2 separate auto feeders, so I can program them enough to make sure they get enough food.

So far I am still in the early stages with only 2 weeks of owning these beauties, but they are doing good so far.

 

[Big E]

My luck changed when I went back to my original statement about recreating their habitat. I first dropped the temp down to like 75. Then I added a Sicce power head on my wave surfer.

BUT THE KEY WAS JUICING MY OWN GARLIC, and adding a drop to the tank very time I fed them to act as a stimulant. I heard a lot of guys having success with the Kent Marine Extreme Garlic, but I read that the key ingredient Allicin loses its potency quickly. This was why I figured the fresh would be best.

That's some interesting info...............I have an evansi and some randalls which aren't as difficult as compared to the other anthias in this thread.

I know about the flow and temp part so that was employed and has worked quite well. I'm going to have to try the garlic to see if that will widen their responses to other foods.

Right now they're mainly hooked on minced scallops and raw shrimp.

 

[johanasu]

Interesting things to consider, I know some of the pellets I have reek of garlic, maybe I'll start crushing them up to .5mm and mixing with the frozen daphnia and shrimp

 

[firemountain]

That's some interesting info...............I have an evansi and some randalls which aren't as difficult as compared to the other anthias in this thread.

I know about the flow and temp part so that was employed and has worked quite well. I'm going to have to try the garlic to see if that will widen their responses to other foods.

Right now they're mainly hooked on minced scallops and raw shrimp.

It appears as though when I added a drop or two of garlic to the tank, the fish definitely notice something is going on, since they start to move around a lot more. Then I turn off my return pump, dump the food in, and let my power heads do the rest. It's sorta like Pavlov's dog but only with fish.

Garlic is potent stuff....so when dealing with the fresh stuff, only use a little bit. Literally I add no more than 1-2 drops. If you don't have a juicer, then take a garlic clove, peel it, and then mash it once with a flat knife to release the oils. Then just swish it in the tank for a bit, and then try feeding the fish. If 1 clove isn't enough....then try like 2.

If you would rather buy the Kent Marine "Garlic Extreme" to make it convenient, then go for it. Garlic cloves are cheap enough that I would try the home made garlic mash thing first.

Right now I am juicing one whole garlic bulb every few days. My batch stays in the fridge, and it turns from a bright yellow to a lime green within 48 hours. It just shows how quickly things oxidize. I have a vacuum sealer container, so I am gonna try that next time to see how long it takes to oxidize.

Just a bit of info....I was using. A slow churning "auger style" macerating juicer....and not those super high speed juicers.

 

[ca1ore]

That's some interesting info...............I have an evansi and some randalls which aren't as difficult as compared to the other anthias in this thread.

I know about the flow and temp part so that was employed and has worked quite well. I'm going to have to try the garlic to see if that will widen their responses to other foods.

Right now they're mainly hooked on minced scallops and raw shrimp.

I'm a garlic skeptic, sorry. Never found it to make any difference in whether a fish would at or not eat. Maintaining flow (for anthias particularly) so that food appears to 'move' does make a huge difference.

Randalls/resplendent anthias are far easier, and I'd put them close to Bartletts and Lyretails in terms of getting them to eat. Evansi are harder, but not as hard as tukas.

 

[firemountain]

I'm a garlic skeptic, sorry. Never found it to make any difference in whether a fish would at or not eat. Maintaining flow (for anthias particularly) so that food appears to 'move' does make a huge difference.

Randalls/resplendent anthias are far easier, and I'd put them close to Bartletts and Lyretails in terms of getting them to eat. Evansi are harder, but not as hard as tukas.

I was a skeptic too. I actually never found the need to use it, but when my Waitei did not eat at all during the TTM, I figured I would give it a shot. Am I completely sold on it....not sure...the jury is still out for me but in this case it worked. It could have been a coincidence and timing that the fish finally ate after getting settled into their environment. At that point I was already on day 3 into the TTM and they were still not eating, hence the need to add the garlic.

I did some reading on RC about its use, some having success and some not, but I figured at this point anything goes. The garlic was the last thing I opted to do in an effort to get them to eat. As of now my Waitei are in my QT and doing well. I am gonna wait at least a week or two before I run Prazipro.... I want to fatten them up first.

 

[Zaffor]

I have not tried the garlic, but my tukas and pascalus all eat readily whenever I introduce any frozen or refrigerated food but they dont really show interest in the pellets yet as a group (occasionally two of them will eat some). Its been nearly 2 months in QT yet I am hopeful that with more time they will learn to take the dry food. I believe that getting them to take pellets will be key with keeping them long term.

 

[ca1ore]

Tukas, pascalus, evansi, smithvanzi, Princess .... all the tricky feeders really ...... Need passive tankmates. I've had pretty good success with most if in a DT that avoids really aggressive feedres; almost non-existent success otherwise.

 

[ReefJunkie01]

I would rather not argue about the about the future of husbandry for tukas. I don't object to a person who is both dedicated and qualified having them. I never said they must all stay in the ocean. I'm saying that they should not be for sale at the LFS.

I assume you're aware, but for anyone reading this who doesn't know, it can be relatively easy to obtain a fish like a tuka from a supplier who will specifically get some for you. They won't be unobtainable if they aren't stocked at the LFS or online stores.

And I definitely do not believe the hobby should continue to exist as it does today. What happens to get these fish to the hobbyist is, in so many cases, unconscionable.

Hi Marie,

I do agree with you in a lot of ways. In a lot of cases, a lot of these fish are purchased at an LFS without doing much homework on the fish, and they simply buy it because it looks pretty, then, the fish dies because the owner neglects it or does not take the time to find out what they need to do in order to keep these fish alive.

Most stores are in the business to make a sale, it's their livelihood, but, I have learned that there are stores out there that will take the time to make sure the owner is informed and also will not keep a fish at their store they feel will inevitably die in their care or at the hands of a non-experienced owner. For me, there are 3 stores locally that I would source supplies or fish from, and, for one of them, I trust the owner very much as he has always been honest with me whenever I'd inquire about a fish and was always available to give me advice on any occurrence as I was having with my first tank.

Also, I will admit, the first purple queen I had bought was a huge mistake, it was a combination of my lack of knowledge on the fish as well as my being mislead by the owner of the store I had visited (I never went there again), but, in the end, the unfortunate incident (and a decent amount of work thereafter) had led to me figuring out a system to keep three of these little beauties happy. It's very possible that I'm also lucky with these three in getting them to eat the baby brine and then frozen, but, at this point, at least a little good came out of it. I'm not going to lie, it was a lot of work and trials, including many, many hours getting something that would be able to feed them throughout the day, but, in the end, it seems to have been worth it (time will tell, but, for now, everything seems to be working well). It's a lot of work between the tanks I own, but, I take it pretty seriously if one of these guys suffer and die because, quite frankly, if they suffer and die, it's my fault. Figure if I take it this seriously, there have to be others out there that feel the same.

I agree that probably a lot of times an expert only fish will suffer and die either due to a bad purchase, lack of honesty by a store owner, or a callous owner, and it's an unconscionable but, sometimes these unfortunate incidents may help to progress things in the husbandry area. Figure every experienced reef keeper started as someone just walking through a fish store at some point.

 

[ReefJunkie01]

Short Video, Purple Queen (Tuka) Anthias eating frozen Daphnia on day 1 in QT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cZOZJXgJQk

Congrats on getting the new addition johanasu. I hope you get a lot of years of smiles out of this little fish.

 

[ReefJunkie01]

Ill go ahead and post my story with tukas so far. I had ordered a batch of 3 purple queens from a distributor but received a trio of pascalus anthias instead. These were extremely small (barely an inch or so long) fish and one didnt make it though the night. After some reading I found these to require similar care to the tukas which I was prepared for. I am using a biocube 29gal with an mp10 for circulation combined with some marinepure ceramic bio media to handle the frequent feeding. This tank has been setup as my QT tank for some time now and thus already cycled. I began breeding baby brine to start these fish eating, and they took to it fairly quickly. They would not even consider anything else although i tried cyclopeeze, medium brine, and frozen rotifers. I would try to refrigerate the brine as soon as they hatched to preserve the nutrition. I figured since I was already going through the motions, i picked up a larger trio of purple queens and fed them the same concoction. I purchased the "Hobby artemia breeder" from brine shrimp direct, this device made constant breeding and collecting a breeze. I had purchased some Oceans Nutrition ROE (fish eggs) and after several days the anthias started eating the eggs readily (one first and them slowly all of them). They started getting used to the frequent feeding and would actually gather when they saw me in front of the tank. Every morning I would add some .5mm pellets soaked with some other food and surprisingly one of the pascalus began eating these as well. Shortly after adding the queens I purchased some live brine and setup a small tank with an air stone and fed them phyto. The anthias started taking the live adult brine very eagerly so I would include some frozen brine which they ate as well. Now I have them graduated to frozen mysis (its been about 2 months or so for pascalus and a month for queens). I now feed several different foods several times a day always starting with pellets or ground up flake in the morning. It does seem that you need water movement to entice them to eat, and even the smaller anthias are comfortable swimming in the currect created by the powerhead.

Sorry for the long post, I just want to perhaps help anyone else who may be trying to keep these beauties succeed. I will update as time passes.

Wish me luck!

Awesome Zaffor. I think you hit pretty much everything on the head. When this thread started, myself and simon had tried two very different strategies, but, I've learnt that both strategies had threads of key knowledge that you just listed in your post. One, as what I've experienced, with these fish, just like with many others, it's a matter of keeping these guys alive and healthy until they can be weened onto frozen (hence the baby and adult live brine). Two, from what Simon's experienced, just like a lot of anthias, they seem to learn from one another, so, one of the major keys is to get at least one of them to eat the new food, once one of them begin to eat the new food, the rest seem to fall in suit a short time after.

Having just one of these guys seems a lot more difficult, as they seem to stress more being the only one of their kind in a tank. Add to that their lack of wanting to eat anything except for what their natural foods are at first, chances seem to be slim for them (slim, but not impossible).

Looks like you're off to a great start, good luck.

 

[ReefJunkie01]

Update on mine .....

Of the original five, one died in QT from some kind of bacterial infection, a second one freaked and died when being transferred to the display, and three survive. Of those, two eat well and look good; one also eats, but not as well and is thin. I feed this tank 3-4 times a day with a mixture of frozen rotifers, capelin roe, cyclops, mini mysis and spirulina brine. The thin one seems only to eat the roe, so I have been increasing how much I add to the mix. I also have a blueberry seafan in this tank, so the mix is intended in part for it also.

Hey Simon. Not sure if this'll help, but, just to try a new food, I had bought a small bottle of the ocean nutrition instant baby brine, and, every fish in the tank went nuts for it. I definitely don't use this as a staple, but, might help with the thin one.

Also, finally found a place that sells the reef plankton you mentioned, and, one of my purple queens and my despar go nuts for it, so I've added it as a staple in the mix I feed the tank. Thanks for letting me know about this food.

 

[ReefJunkie01]

I want to add and update this thread since the Waitei is considered a difficult fish as well.

Some of the best advice I can give with my success to getting these difficult fish to eat is to attempt to recreate their habitat, from water flow, to temp., etc, etc.

I ran my Waitei through the TTM which was insanely difficult. They wouldn't eat anything. I tried Cyclopeze, ROE, Arctic Pods, live Black works, live brine shrimp, PE Mysis, Caviar fish eggs, Spiriluna Mysis, 3 different kinds of pellets, you name it.

I was polluting my tank with all different kinds of food in the hopes of getting them to eat, maintain their energy, and not lose weight knowing that the TTM is a long haul. I was doing a lot of water changes and siphoning out the old food so my nitrates wouldnt go through the roof.

My luck changed when I went back to my original statement about recreating their habitat. I first dropped the temp down to like 75. Then I added a Sicce power head on my wave surfer.

BUT THE KEY WAS JUICING MY OWN GARLIC, and adding a drop to the tank very time I fed them to act as a stimulant. I heard a lot of guys having success with the Kent Marine Extreme Garlic, but I read that the key ingredient Allicin loses its potency quickly. This was why I figured the fresh would be best.

After juicing a whole clove, I added a drop to the tank; and then added pellets, Hikari Spirulina mysis, and Cyclopeze. They ate it all. I used the garlic addition for the next several days at each feeding and it was like magic. Yesterday....I fed them without the garlic addition, and they still went after the food with no issues.

The main reason for introducing the pellets early on is so that way I can get food in them multiple times a day when I am not home or go on vacation. Plus....when they eventually hit my DT...I run 2 separate auto feeders, so I can program them enough to make sure they get enough food.

So far I am still in the early stages with only 2 weeks of owning these beauties, but they are doing good so far.

That's actually a really good point firemountain, thanks for posting this. I add the kent extreme garlic to my tank more for immune support, but, it seems like the raw garlic worked really well for you as a stimulant. This is good info, and I'm glad it worked out well.

 

[ReefJunkie01]

So, a quick update on my tank. All three fish are doing well and eating aggressively. I had noticed that one of the purple queens (the first of the 3 I now own) had been getting a more pale, still eating well and maintaining weight, but, was getting pale. Started adding an Astaxanthin supplement to their feed (I add the Astaxanthin to only one of the 3 feedings I give per day), and, the color of the purple queen is returning.

Of the 3 fish, they do have different things they like to eat it would seem:

First purple queen eats only reef plankton, roe, gut loaded brine and spirulina brine
Second purple queen eats only gut loaded and spirulina brine, as well as hikari mysis
Third purple queen will eat only cut up PE mysis, hikari mysis, and full sized adult gut loaded or spirulina brine.

Either way, this is all in my daily feed, so, at least they all get what they want.

 

[ca1ore]

Hey Simon. Not sure if this'll help, but, just to try a new food, I had bought a small bottle of the ocean nutrition instant baby brine, and, every fish in the tank went nuts for it. I definitely don't use this as a staple, but, might help with the thin one.

Also, finally found a place that sells the reef plankton you mentioned, and, one of my purple queens and my despar go nuts for it, so I've added it as a staple in the mix I feed the tank. Thanks for letting me know about this food.

Buddy of mine also has been having good luck with the PE Calanus. It may be the same as the reef plankton, not sure. Worth a try though.

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

Tukas, pascalus, evansi, smithvanzi, Princess .... all the tricky feeders really ...... Need passive tankmates. I've had pretty good success with most if in a DT that avoids really aggressive feedres; almost non-existent success otherwise.

Can you give some examples of fish you consider good and bad tankmates?

 

[ca1ore]

Can you give some examples of fish you consider good and bad tankmates?

I currently keep three Tuka, two evansi, and one princess in a tank with leopard wrasse, chalk basslets and a chevron tang. They are always out and feed well. So no problems. In my other tank, I keep a trio of zebrasoma tangs, a number of larger anthias (bimacs, Lyretail, Bartlett), a couple of angels, and a larger dusky wrasse, all of which harass and intimidate smaller fish so that they spend a lot of time hiding. Is OK for smaller anthias like resplendent that are not problem feeders, but the others don't do well at all.

I'd not try to keep them again with Angels, more aggressive tangs, larger anthias, or any larger wrasse.

 

[shred5]

It is good to see people doing well with these fish and sharing information.
I agree that these fish should be left in the ocean except for those with the knowledge and time to dedicate and share info.

Look at goniopora, a few years ago almost no one could keep one alive but a rare few and they did not know why. Now there are several species we can keep and some are not even that hard. If no one tried we still would not be able too keep them today. That does not mean everyone should rush out and buy one it is still a hard to keep coral for most but we have made long strides. Some just require too much attention for the average reefer, some are more like nps corals and just need constant feeding. Nps corals most were thought impossible also not too long ago, even sun corals were thought to be impossible.

It should be stressed in this thread that these are hard fish too keep and it takes allot of time to dedicate to feeding these fish. this is a advanced fish..

Again good work on those trying and good luck. I would try this fish myself but I might have the knowledge, I just dont have the time to dedicate. Seems like some progress is being made...