experience with tiny blue hippo tangs

[DamnPepShrimp]

They were $20, pretty cheap, this LFS though usually has some good deals. I need a good blue fish in my tank and it fit the budget, but I just walked out with vitamins instead. I don't see many of these tangs surviving, sad to say. Wish I could have gotten one tho.

 

[Mako Shark II]

Wow! Mega-deal. Buy 'em!

Hey BrianD:
Wouldn't ya think those are captive then?? I mean: $20 is stupid cheap.

(On a personal note: most folks aren't gonna know where "Matt-toon" Illinois is, but at least I know how to pronounce it. My old neighbor was an Investment banker (at Harris Bank) that held the debt paper on the local Cable provider. You might know him.)

 

[BrianD]

Pepshrimp, the captive raised are typically much more expensive.

Mako, you are right, Matt- toon

 

[crabbejoe]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13522983#post13522983 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jmaneyapanda
I have personally seen them dead in holkding tanks after tranship. Also, after that cursed movie, everyopne and their mother had to have one. The mortality on these little guys is IMMENSE. Trust me.

Wouldn't the survival rate be the same, or maybe even worse, in the ocean? Those little guys would be bite size for a very large number of reef fish.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13525936#post13525936 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BrianD
I repeat myself: the mortality rate for the captive raised specimens is substantially better. If they are wild-caught, I agree that the mortality rate is extremely high.

OK, I repeat myself, where is this info on captive raising?! I am trying to be polite and express my opinion and observations, but I get the feeling you wont have any of it. I have enver seen any information on captive raised hippos, so if it is there, and the mortality is minimal, please, let me see it. Thats all I want.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13526298#post13526298 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by crabbejoe
Wouldn't the survival rate be the same, or maybe even worse, in the ocean? Those little guys would be bite size for a very large number of reef fish.

Predation is certainly a major cause for these guys in the wild. However, I doubt severely it would be worse. That is the risk of ANY small fish. It still doesnt rationalize the collection when they do poorly in captivity. Pinnatus batfish do poorly in home aquariums the majority of the time. They woudl perish in the wild too, for whatever reason, so does that make it ok for us to keep trying to keep them? I hope you see my point.

 

[BrianD]

Jameypanda, what is it you want? I have acknowledged that wild caught have a poor survival rate.

If you are questioning the distribution (in recent years, at least) of captive-reared specimens, you are incorrect.

 

[BrianD]

If you do not wish to believe me, check with Morgan Lidster at Inland Aquatics. Again, I do not know if they still offer these, but that is where I acquired mine. I believe they are collected in the post-larvae stage and "grown" for a few months before being offered for sale. A quick google search would probably confirm that. I have a feeling you won't believe anything I cite.

 

[DamnPepShrimp]

I don't think $20 is a good deal for a fish that is most likely going to die. They did not look healthy at all, not blaming the fish store, since hippos at that size are not very hardy, but they tend to have livestock that has problems (diseases etc). I wanted to get one very badly, but I just don't think it would have been a wise decision.

 

[BrianD]

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-03/hcs3/index.php

"However, the good news is that captive-reared Paracanthurus hepatus are available. Do not confuse the terms captive-bred and captive-reared. Captive-bred means bred in captivity. That has not yet been possible with Paracanthurus hepatus. Captive-reared, however, means spawned in the wild and captured at the larval/post-larval stage and grown out in a protected "farm" of sorts. Once roughly ½ inch in length they are then shipped from the Solomon Islands to the United States and grown another ½ - ¾ of an inch. At that time they are then moved to the wholesale/retail level and are eventually offered for sale to the hobbyist at a size of roughly 1 - 1.5 inches in length. These captive-reared fish have proven to be excellent at adjusting to home aquarium conditions, much more so than their adult conspecifics. "

 

[BrianD]

Henry Schultz has first-hand knowledge of this because he was with me when I acquired 3 of these fish, and watched them grow to the point that I donated 2 of them back to Inland Aquatics to keep in their multi-thousand gallon tanks.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

Thanks you. That *is* the information I wanted. FWIW, The quote you state says they are acquired at 1/2" to 3/4" and grown to about 1" or more. The tiny ones I believe we are talking about here are 1/2" or so to start with, correct (saleable length 1-1.5")? If that is the case, I sincerely doubt they are captive reared, as collection and growth to that size would be difficult, at best.

Nonethless, I was not disputing your claim, not starting trouble, but instead, just wanted to see the information that you were stating from. It simply appeared to me that I was just expected to believe that these fish were available from captive sources, although I ahve never heard, nor seen this. Captive reared (and bred) French and Gray angels were available in the 70's from Martin Moe (who I believe injected them with a hormone to induce spawning, and grew them in NSW "farms", as stated in the article you quoted). Hwoever the demand versus the cost did that effort in quickly, so I wonder if the same happened with these fish, or whether it is still going on.

 

[BrianD]

It is too many years ago for me to remember exactly, but I think they were about quarter size (maybe smaller).

I would not be surprised if cost was an issue if they are no longer available, although a fish that costs twice as much is a pretty good deal if it actually lives

 

[BrianD]

I would be surprised to see hepatus tangs for sale at 1/2". I have never seen that.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13526604#post13526604 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BrianD
I would be surprised to see hepatus tangs for sale at 1/2". I have never seen that.

I just saw a tank of about 30 of them here in Atlanta the other day.

 

[BrianD]

Sad.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

Agreed. And they were cheap too, so I fear they are "fresh" from the ocean. Check the LiveAquaria forum for my post there.

 

[tcmfish]

I highly doubt any of these are captive raised or were captive raised. They may have collected tiny post settlement fish and grown them up but larvae are so fragile and if your going to collect anything it would be best to collect eggs and raised them. Also tang larvae are no walk in the park.

I believe it is Oceanic Institute in Hawaii who has been working with flame angels and yellow tangs. They have raised the angels (we knew people could raise those) but the tangs have been a big pita.

When snorkeling in Cabo I saw tons of tiny Prionurus punctatus juvi's along with the almost 2 foot adults, this could a similar situation with the hippo tangs. Lots of little juvi's in shallow water, easy for collection. Now some might come straight from the ocean (cheaper price) and not do so well, and other might be held in captivity for a little bit (more expensive) so the ones that will die right away do and the others can get a little more robust before their trip across the world.

 

[Mako Shark II]

Phew!!! Wow guys! This is a great thread for Blue's.

Thanks Brian. The article was awesome. Now, can we agree taht "this" is due to "nipping"?: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=13522542#post13522542

 

[DamnPepShrimp]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13526604#post13526604 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BrianD
I would be surprised to see hepatus tangs for sale at 1/2". I have never seen that.

The tank was filled with them, I should have taken a picture. I have never seen so many hippo tangs, let alone a tang at this size. Some were smaller then a quarter.