Extinguishing a System of Ich

[ocho cinco]

Hello,

I've been doing some reading about ich and I wanted to throw my current idea and see what some of you think.

Currently there is not ich visible on any of my fish. Some have had it in the past so I know it is in the system. The system currently has fish, live rock, inverts and coral. I want to totally get rid of it so fish I add in the future won't get it.

Game Plan:
-Set up QT tank for current fish and new fish going forward
-Place all new coral in a dip or my fishless frag tank before entering the display going forward.
-Remove all fish from system and let it run fallow with only the LR and coral for atleast 2 months.

Questions:
1. Do the fish in the QT need cooper treatment still even though there is no sign of Ich?
1a. Is so, how long of a treatment? And what type of copper med?
2. Overall, will this solve my potential ich issues in the future?

My assumption is that running my tank fishless for 2 months will kill all ich as there is nothing for them to host.

Thanks in advance for your input!

 

[snorvich]

Hello,

I've been doing some reading about ich and I wanted to throw my current idea and see what some of you think.

Currently there is not ich visible on any of my fish. Some have had it in the past so I know it is in the system. The system currently has fish, live rock, inverts and coral. I want to totally get rid of it so fish I add in the future won't get it.

Game Plan:
-Set up QT tank for current fish and new fish going forward
-Place all new coral in a dip or my fishless frag tank before entering the display going forward.
-Remove all fish from system and let it run fallow with only the LR and coral for atleast 2 months.

Questions:
1. Do the fish in the QT need cooper treatment still even though there is no sign of Ich?
1a. Is so, how long of a treatment? And what type of copper med?
2. Overall, will this solve my potential ich issues in the future?

My assumption is that running my tank fishless for 2 months will kill all ich as there is nothing for them to host.

Thanks in advance for your input!

Guaranteed fallow time is 72 days. Tank transfer would eliminate ich from existing fish.

 

[reeferstace]

Ich doesn't host the fish. Fish host ich.

 

[snorvich]

Ich doesn't host the fish. Fish host ich.

Right. (Unless you plan on carrying a hotel around with you, hotels host people).

 

[ocho cinco]

Guaranteed fallow time is 72 days. Tank transfer would eliminate ich from existing fish.

Would it also eliminate it from the system? The fish currently don't have any visable ich. I would just keep my tank a fishless reef for the 72 days. Nice write ups BTW!

 

[snorvich]

Would it also eliminate it from the system? The fish currently don't have any visable ich. I would just keep my tank a fishless reef for the 72 days. Nice write ups BTW!

Yes, if your system has no fish, ich will die out as it has an obligatory fish host as part of the life cycle.

 

[ocho cinco]

Yes, if your system has no fish, ich will die out as it has an obligatory fish host as part of the life cycle.

Thanks for the info. Should I just put my fish in QT or do I still need to treat with cooper even though ich is not visable?

 

[snorvich]

Thanks for the info. Should I just put my fish in QT or do I still need to treat with cooper even though ich is not visable?

Ich does not have to be visible in order to be present. I would put them through tank transfer. However the timing of either copper or tank transfer is difficult with a 72 day fallow period.

 

[homer1475]

Doing this right now with the tank to tank method, seems the most least stressful to the fish. I did however lose my flame angel, but I think that was due to not having an airstone in the second tank and just had a tube in the tank hooked to a pump(lack of oxygen due to low oxygen and ich in/on the gills).

I'm using 2 - 5gallon buckets(only have 2 small clowns and 1 flame angel), with airstones(bubble wands), heaters, ammonia badge, seachem prime and some 1" PVC pipe sections for them to hide in. They will then go into a 10G QT after the TTM is finished with 2 rounds of prazipro. 72 days later, they will go back into my DT.

Hopefully I'm doing it correctly? I read everything I could from snorvich on curing ich using this method.

 

[ocho cinco]

Ich does not have to be visible in order to be present. I would put them through tank transfer. However the timing of either copper or tank transfer is difficult with a 72 day fallow period.

What do you mean by tank transfer? I figured I would pull them from my display and put them in a QT with copper. Is that no good?

 

[zeebies]

Here ya go:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1996525

 

[Spar]

What do you mean by tank transfer? I figured I would pull them from my display and put them in a QT with copper. Is that no good?

copper is good, but has possible complications, mainly in that some fish don't tolerate it well. You also need to keep them at .5ppm for at least 28 days for it to be effective; during that time you need to pay close attention to the copper levels to make sure it doesn't ever drop below .35ppm, even during a water change.

Whereas, with TTM, it only takes 12 days to be nearly 100% sure Ich is eliminated. Is just frankly the easiest and most reliable option. Regardless, you are going down the right path of treating for Ich in one reliable way or another.

 

[ThRoewer]

What do you mean by tank transfer? I figured I would pull them from my display and put them in a QT with copper. Is that no good?

Copper is bad for many reasons. The only thing it reliably kills (if executed properly) is Cryptocaryon (and fish).
It doesn't do a thing against Brooklynella and Amyloodinium, being more plant than animal, can develop a tolerance for copper levels that would kill every fish. I would expect this copper resistance in Amyloodinium because too many places in the supply chain use low, non therapeutic copper levels to suppress disease outbreaks.

But being ineffective is only part of why copper is bad.
The other, more important reason is that it is an immune suppressant. This means, while not reliably eradicating all possible parasites it suppresses the fish's immune system, leaving the fish susceptible to bacterial or virus infection. This is the reason why you may see Lymphocystis on fish treated with copper.

There are better medications (Chloroquine Phosphate) and procedures (TTM) against parasites out there than copper.

 

[reefcoco]

Ok, so you got through the 72 days wait period. Fish are now in, what about future coral purchase where ich might be present? Do you do another complete 72 days without any fish in the tank?

 

[Spar]

Ok, so you got through the 72 days wait period. Fish are now in, what about future coral purchase where ich might be present? Do you do another complete 72 days without any fish in the tank?

You would fallow the new purchases in a separate tank. You could use your Display Tank if small enough and easy to get all your fish out, but optimally you would have a separate small self sustaining tank healthy enough to house new corals. Regardless of where you do it, all new non-fish purchases for 72 days.

 

[lviva003]

Are the fish happy now? Why do you want to stress all yoir fish out by transfering them to a new tank and back. I say just let it be. If the fish seem healthy and eating then they can fight off the ich.

 

[Spar]

Are the fish happy now? Why do you want to stress all yoir fish out by transfering them to a new tank and back. I say just let it be. If the fish seem healthy and eating then they can fight off the ich.

define happy. they must live in a closed-in space covered in parasites constantly annoying them. doesn't seem happy to me. then again, it is difficult to gauge a fish smile.

the stress on a fish changing tanks, assuming the right parameters exist for them, is minimal at most. the real stress comes from putting them in a less-than-optimum environment.

 

[Dmorty217]

define happy. they must live in a closed-in space covered in parasites constantly annoying them. doesn't seem happy to me. then again, it is difficult to gauge a fish smile.

the stress on a fish changing tanks, assuming the right parameters exist for them, is minimal at most. the real stress comes from putting them in a less-than-optimum environment.

:spin3: +1

 

[ocho cinco]

So it sounds like the tank transfer is the way to go.

Since I will be putting my main system through the 72 day fallow period, after the tank transfer, do I just hold the fish in QT?

While doing the tank transfer, is there anything I need to look for since my fish don't visually have ich?

After this is all done, what process should I take to add new fish\live stock?

 

[Spar]

So it sounds like the tank transfer is the way to go.

Since I will be putting my main system through the 72 day fallow period, after the tank transfer, do I just hold the fish in QT?

While doing the tank transfer, is there anything I need to look for since my fish don't visually have ich?

After this is all done, what process should I take to add new fish\live stock?

Yes, just hold the fish in QT until the fallow period is up. Make sure to watch for ammonia. Use a bacteria product to get it kicked off if necessary.

During tank transfer, for Ich specifically you don't need to watch for anything; but you want to watch for signs of other bad things like velvet, brook, etc. Spotty blotches of any kind for instance. you may see spots caused from Ich jumping off (exit wounds), but should clear up in a couple/few days.

In the future, never put anything into your DT without treatment first. Fish = TTM + PraziPro + 4-8 weeks observation; non-Fish (anything wet) = 72 days fallow treated. Anything else you notice during the QT periods you will need to research on how to treat.