Part 1
Remember the day you established your first tank or maybe even the current system you have, and the excitement of anticipated growth of your new acquisitions? Remember all the tanks you've viewed on line, in your LFS and via any research you might have performed with hopes of replicating those stunning reefs and their exceptional growth? Then it happened, your system didn't yield that growth, some no growth at all and still others whose polyps simply withered and crashed within days or weeks of arrival.
I created this thread/poll to help prove or dispel a prevailing belief. I will allow you to decide what is fact or fiction and hopefully we can continue to discuss it. We will respect everyone's opinion, good or bad, right or wrong, it's just an opinion ok?
The question remains, are their inherently fast and slow growers as it relates to zoanthids and palythoas in aquaria? In my opinion, I would say emphatically, NO, not in captivity/aquaria, but there’s a reason I say that. "But Mucho, my LFS, the on line vendor who sold them to me, the guy at the frag swap, all assured me when I purchased them that they were fast/slow growers". In my above post, you will see tons of very insightful feedback you all provided, great stuff by the way. I chose to wait before replying in hopes that many would do just that and say what I've always held to be true and have stated for nearly 10 years now. Definitive labels of fast and slow growers in captivity is a myth in my opinion and should be placed in the same category of most of what's in this link below. The specific captive care you give your tank is the sole determining factor in your polyps rate of growth and not by virtue of its name or label someone gave it. ( No disrespect to my reefing buddies who believe otherwise
. "Fast growers" is most often used as a marketing/selling tool, to generate excitement, because it’s what others have been told and the myth is perpetuated. Don't attack me, just read a bit longer and we can discuss it.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1590992&highlight=myth
Zoanthids and palythoas are found in the wild in diverse yet similar conditions throughout the world. Each of course is thriving in that particular environment which is obviously most conducive for optimal growth I would say or they wouldn’t be there or thriving at all in the first place. Keep in mind, even the vast oceans of the world themselves are not stable and there are varying degrees of flucuation of the exact parameters we strive so hard to maintain. Thus in the wild, I believe they will grow at their optimal rate due to optimal conditions or the conditions they thrive in. Keep in mind however that some of those conditions seem less then optimal or favourable to the average reefer. They've been found at depths of 5600 meters as well as in shallow tidal pools and being completely exposed during low tide. Some are thriving in pristine clear water while others have been discovered near sewage run offs. “But Mucho, you’ve proven nothing.” Hang with me a minute longer.
Take a look at this photo from the Kusu Island in Singapore. Notice the vast mature colonies proliferating in a carpet-like manner in every direction. Can anyone specify which ones are the fast growers and which are the slow growers? NO !!!!!! they are all thriving. Why?
Below you find a series of pictures from TCU’s tank.
In the first picture you’ll find a fairly decent size colony of zoanthids.
In the second picture you’ll notice what appears to be the same zoanthids which are now propagating like weeds across the substrate.
In this photo you’ll see propagation in every direction with exponential growth.
So why did I choose these photos? This particular morph is one of the first zoanthids I ever owned. Knock on wood, I was able to grow everything in my system to the point that every single inch of rock in my system was covered literally with thousands of polyps. I treated my tank as if it were another human and just treated it like a baby. I mean I could grow anything, I had the proverbial blue thumb. But guess what? I couldn’t grow this particular morph no matter how I tried. But wait a minute, everything else grew like weeds, so why not this particular zoanthid? I mean just look at the growth in TCU’s tank, isn’t it a fast grower by todays beliefs and standards? Doesn’t that mean it’s a fast grower? True enough, we don’t know the time frame of said growth in his tank, but it sure looks like a fast grower doesn’t it? Here’s my point, again, in my opinion, there is no such thing as a fast grower or slow grower in captivity, just variables which dictates growth rate, fast or slow, and that’s you, what you do and how you do it as it relates to your system. If something is a fast or slow grower by virtue of what you were told or its label, then it is going to grow as such in your tank, my tank and Peter’s tank. But we all know that doesn’t happen. More specifically, what dictates growth is tank maturity, lighting type, source, wattage, height of placement, thus PAR, parameters levels/readings i.e. PH, KH, Cal etc, salinity, minute fluctuations, nutrient levels/source, temperature, bio load, current and type, reduction of stress via keeping your hands out of your tank thus not fragging every new polyp you see, not moving your corals around constantly and overall sound husbandry is what will more specifically dictate your growth rate or growth at all.
Here’s a series of pics from my buddy Geoxman's tanks. Again, can anyone pic out the fast and the slow growers? Again, you can’t. What grows well in one tank, doesn't mean said rate can and will be reproduced by another.
Pics of Archie's tank
What you can see are two very diligent reefers who listened to their systems and knows what thrives in their particular systems and what doesn’t. Every morph isn’t going to thrive in your or my system no matter what you do. Not because they won't survive in captivity, not because they are perpetual melters, but some require a slightly different parameter level than what you may or may not maintain or even have knowledge of. I have taken polyps which my buddy who locally told me they are impossible to keep, and they thrived in my tank. Conversely, I have given small colonies to local reefers who grew what I couldn't grow in my system. One was labeled a fast grower and the other a slow grower, yet both prospered in our own individual tanks in conditions best suited for optimal growth.
Zoanthids and Palythoas are not baseball cards or Beanie babies that we buy, place in our systems, then take them out, then trade, sell, buy a new set then repeat the process. In fact, the process of persistent movement, hands in your tank constantly and the lack of diligent husbandry is even more detrimental to your polyps in the short and long term.
If a polyp is a fast grower…then it’s a fast grower. No web site, no seller and certainly not even Peter the Polyp Pimp is going to tell you they are fast growers if you do A, B C and D. If it is a fast grower, then it’s going to grow fast in your tank, my tank and Peter the Polyp Pimp’s tank right? But his is not the basis of corals reproduce. There is no posted growth chart or scale of expected growth if you buy this polyp or that polyp. What grows fast in my tank doesn't necessarily mean it will grow equally as fast in your tank, and maybe not at all and vice versa.
We can now add to those variables which might be to the detriment or success of your growth rate, these factors. In 2005 we saw the beginning of excessive, redundant, improper and premature fragging of frags with the advent of names and sky high pricing which began in 2005. We now have 4 polyps on a plug being referred to as a colony and when the 5th polyp sprouts, it is chopped off. I have personally spoken to hundreds of reefers over the years here and on other sites as well as here in my own town whom had issues with growth. Through discussion via Q & A, the results of their polyp mortality, slow growth or no growth was due to many of those variables listed above. Yes, improper, excessive, premature and excessively redundant fragging will stunt growth rate and in many cases cause the very mortality we all try to avoid. Polyps which were sold as fast growers in fact never grew at all and most died within days. “Sorry, still not convinced yet Mooch.”
Some even say the more expensive they are, the slower they grow. Think about that, we’ll come back to it later.
Something else that truly makes me smile are all the list on the web There’s a list of the fast growers, the slower growers and the perpetual melters. There are those who will say emphatically that this or that particular morph can’t be grown in captivity………solely because they couldn’t, Billy Ray couldn’t and not even Peter. This simply means they did not meet the individual requirements for that particular polyp to thrive. Remember, diverse conditions, you can’t possibly meet the conditions to house every zoanthid and palythoa from around the world. I feel my success with growing polyps was due to the overt attention of just listening to my tank. Then tweaking my system and all of my parameters to find a happy medium for most all of what I acquired to grow and thrive to the point of explosive growth covering every inch of live rock.
I wrote this piece over a year ago, and believe it or not, most of it details exactly what many of you have stated in post #38 which is why I waited until today to reply. “Sorry Mooch, still not convince”.
Well, I’m not trying to convince you my friend, just stating my opinion is all. You don’t have to agree with anything I’ve said. I just want to spark a discussion on a topic of great interest and misperception.
Let’s take the ultimate test here for any skeptics. What if I told you, for every polyp or named polyp that someone has stated right here in this forum or any zoanthid forum as being a fast or slower grower, I can show you another reefers who has stated just the opposite about that exact same polyp. WHAAAT !!!!!! …how can that be true? Well, I’ve already done it, been doing it for years. Whenever I see or read that someone has stated something is a fast grower or a slow grower, I instantly begin to do some searching. If I didn’t find a polar contradiction right here in this forum, I took to the web and Googled it, other zoanthid forums and true enough, I always found that contradiction. As much as I hate names, stop here and search this forum and look at the growth experience of RASTAS.
I recently visited visited a region far away rom my home state. I stopped by a LFS there and just browsed. I struck up a conversation with a guy and sooner than later, it evolved into a discussion on growth. I listened as he pointed to a small frag of 10 polyps in the display tank and he told me those were rare and they are very slow growers and that’s why no one has bought them. My jaw dropped but I closed it quickly. I listened to the point of stopping him. I walked over to the store owner whom I had just spoken to for 20 minutes. I asked if I could pull up something on his PC. I went to a picture on line that I posted back in 2003. I then pointed to nearly 200 polyps of what he was purporting to be both rare and a slow grower. I assured him they were neither, but this is what he had been lead to believe for many many years.
Take a look at a collection of very informative threads on growth. There are many reefers who have contributed to these threads and there’s a vast array of knowledge, opinions and detailed information which I hope you’ll enjoy reading.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=729863&highlight=growth
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1861820&highlight=fast+growers+mucho
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1449744&highlight=growth+rate+goldmaniac
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2148330&highlight=fast+growers+mucho
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2223468
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1975481&highlight=fast+growers+mucho
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2117947&highlight=growth
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=729863&highlight=growth
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=729863&highlight=growth
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2210927&highlight=growth
In closing, polyps can and will thrive in the wild. In captivity, their morphology can and will change due to all those growth variables Iisted above. Color, polyp size, length, growth rate, skirt length all are affected by what has been discussed in this thread.
That said, I’ll leave you with a quote by NyReefNoob regarding the topic of fast growers. “Mucho that question would be a hard to prove one”.
And I agree.
Thanks for taking the time to read along. Don’t shoot the messenger, just post your opinion even if it is a complete departure from my beliefs, I want to hear your opinion as well. I yield the floor.
MUCHO REEF
TOTM – August 2003
PS. I want to leave you with this picture of a mound of Palythoa Caribearum. Just listen to your reef, read and research as much as possible, keep your hands out of your tank, and just allow them to grow.
