Good practice!!
Fighting Ich ( tank transfer method ) Questions.
- Thread starter reeferman1128
- Start date
Good practice!!
Thanks! Now I just gotta hope that none of the fish already in my DT have ich. I think I'm good, have never seen any signs, but you never know, and even though I've QT-d everyone in there before putting them in, I didn't treat any of them for ich. It'll be very frustrating to have to catch everyone and keep them in a QT for 2-3 months while the DT remains fallow. Fingers crossed, and better practices in the future!
Ditto!!!!
Day #7, Swap #2 this morning...
I did notice it may be not a great idea to feed them much garlic soaked foods while TT... Smells not so yummy and it seems to cloud the water...
Adding 1.0ml of Prime daily is keeping 20gal in check.....
Hoping for healthy fish for all!!! :dance:
I started today the tank transfer method, I used a shower basket to catch the fish and it was easy and seems that the fish didn't stress.
I have two questions regarding disinfecting: how much bleach makes a mild solution and for how long has to run? can I use Potassium permanganate or bleach is better?
I have two questions regarding disinfecting: how much bleach makes a mild solution and for how long has to run? can I use Potassium permanganate or bleach is better?
I use 10% bleach but less probably would work. I soak for an hour, rinse with tap, then RO and wipe it down and then air dry.
A couple of thoughts:
I do not use or recommend using tank water. I use newly mixed salt water aerated overnight to allow amines and any ammonia in it to process.
Because:
1. Tank water holds organics and nutrients but not the benthic bio filter that processes them in the main tank. This leads to more ammonia buildup in the qt tank ,ime.
2. There is a good chance to bring in parasites at various life cycle stages with tank water.
I do not use formalin dips routinely unless there is a particulary bad infestation or I suspect some velvet or flukes along with the ich. Formalin is a strong med and likely causes some stress, imo.
4 transfers are very adequate. More are not helpful.
If the new water is temp adjusted and equal or less to the tank water in sg, the water should not stress the fish. Prolonged confinement in a small space is an issue but seems fine for the 12 days. Don't think doing that for longer is prudent.
Gentle tranasfer is easier if you drain the water down and remove all the pvc pipes, etc from the tank . A collection cup is prefered with care not to move much water from one tank to the other. I sometimes use a fine brine shrimp net of my hand
I do not use or recommend using tank water. I use newly mixed salt water aerated overnight to allow amines and any ammonia in it to process.
Because:
1. Tank water holds organics and nutrients but not the benthic bio filter that processes them in the main tank. This leads to more ammonia buildup in the qt tank ,ime.
2. There is a good chance to bring in parasites at various life cycle stages with tank water.
I do not use formalin dips routinely unless there is a particulary bad infestation or I suspect some velvet or flukes along with the ich. Formalin is a strong med and likely causes some stress, imo.
4 transfers are very adequate. More are not helpful.
If the new water is temp adjusted and equal or less to the tank water in sg, the water should not stress the fish. Prolonged confinement in a small space is an issue but seems fine for the 12 days. Don't think doing that for longer is prudent.
Gentle tranasfer is easier if you drain the water down and remove all the pvc pipes, etc from the tank . A collection cup is prefered with care not to move much water from one tank to the other. I sometimes use a fine brine shrimp net of my hand
It seems as if people are doing multiple transfers after the 4 because they have no place to put the fish since the original display tank has ich
I get that but it seems it would be easier and with less chance of mistakes to set up something larger for a holding tank or bin.The 12 days would go a long way toward cycling and might be enough if a reliable bacterial supplement was used to speed it up.
I get that but it seems it would be easier and with less chance of mistakes to set up something larger for a holding tank or bin.The 12 days would go a long way toward cycling and might be enough if a reliable bacterial supplement was used to speed it up.
reeferman1128
New member
On using tank water.
I understand that there are people who feel this may be a risk.
But!!!!
The smallest parasite at any stage we see in our aquariums is 10 microns. By using a 5 or less micron filter this will mathmatically filter out any parasites.
Also. If you have confirmed your tank is free of parasites ( after fallow period and weeks of monitoring at the least) there should be no risk of parasite transfer if using this method for qt before placing new fish in dt which I do.
Again not say there are not other effective ways but there are benefits to both.
I understand that there are people who feel this may be a risk.
But!!!!
The smallest parasite at any stage we see in our aquariums is 10 microns. By using a 5 or less micron filter this will mathmatically filter out any parasites.
Also. If you have confirmed your tank is free of parasites ( after fallow period and weeks of monitoring at the least) there should be no risk of parasite transfer if using this method for qt before placing new fish in dt which I do.
Again not say there are not other effective ways but there are benefits to both.
Not worth the risk to me of saving a bit on salt. Why make life more complex than it has to be? But do whatever you think best for you.
I disagree that there are benefits to using tank water. What would they be? The tank water will hold all the nutrients and organics and bound metals from the tank without the bacteria that deal with them in the tank. If you use it watch ammonia extra carefully. Not to mention potential for pathogenic infestattion.
reeferman1128
New member
The nutrients argument doesnt make a lot of sense as all nutrients coming out of most tanks is going to be nil and the bio load from the fish will surpass any nutrient levels from the DT in a few hrs.
This method worked very well and was very easy. One batch of salt mix to replace the water taken from the Dt in stead of 2. It kills at least two birds with one stone ( water change and tank transfer). There is no argument that a five micron filter or smaller offers any risk to parasite introduction to the QT tank.
There are always a few proven methods inside the box and an infinite amount of methods to prove outside the box.
There was a time when every method we current use was controversial.
The point of this is thread is that although some of the old timers are set in their ways, this works. It has worked for many. The size of the parasites are scientifically documented and we all know you can't fit a golf ball through a garden hose.
This method worked very well and was very easy. One batch of salt mix to replace the water taken from the Dt in stead of 2. It kills at least two birds with one stone ( water change and tank transfer). There is no argument that a five micron filter or smaller offers any risk to parasite introduction to the QT tank.
There are always a few proven methods inside the box and an infinite amount of methods to prove outside the box.
There was a time when every method we current use was controversial.
The point of this is thread is that although some of the old timers are set in their ways, this works. It has worked for many. The size of the parasites are scientifically documented and we all know you can't fit a golf ball through a garden hose.
The nutrients argument doesnt make a lot of sense as all nutrients coming out of most tanks is going to be nil and the bio load from the fish will surpass any nutrient levels from the DT in a few hrs.
Have it your way for your tank. I still strongly advise folks to avoid tank water for the organics and other nutrients and potential parasite transfer..
The nutrient argument makes perfect sense. Obviously you don't understand organics in an aquarium ;but do whatever you like have fun with it. It's your tank.
Ammonia in my tanks spikes when tank water is used. Do you think you are the only person who has tried it? Do you think I made that up? Using tank water and micron filters even diatom filters is nothing new. Certainly not a great out of the box discovery; just a mistake.
Folks can read it all and pick a method of their own choosing. Again ,using tank water is a poor practice , in my opinion and experience. There is no point in arguing it ad nauseum.
Have it your way for your tank. I still strongly advise folks to avoid tank water for the organics and other nutrients and potential parasite transfer..
The nutrient argument makes perfect sense. Obviously you don't understand organics in an aquarium ;but do whatever you like have fun with it. It's your tank.
Ammonia in my tanks spikes when tank water is used. Do you think you are the only person who has tried it? Do you think I made that up? Using tank water and micron filters even diatom filters is nothing new. Certainly not a great out of the box discovery; just a mistake.
Folks can read it all and pick a method of their own choosing. Again ,using tank water is a poor practice , in my opinion and experience. There is no point in arguing it ad nauseum.
all nutrients coming out of most tanks is going to be nil and the bio load from the fish will surpass any nutrient levels from the DT in a few hrs.
Stuff like that presented as fact that isn't needs correction.It's just nonsense. So for the sake of clarification.
If the fish generated all that nutrient in a few hours ,the tank transfer method wouldn't work without ammonia detoxifiers which are incompatible with the fromaldehyde you dose btw , unless 4 pre cylced tanks were used. In your case with all those extra useless transfers many more.. Do you have data to support your estimate of how much nutrient fish generate per hour per gram of body mass or something to support your unequivocal statement that fish in qt will generate nutrients to exceed that of a functioning reef in a few hours. What nutrients? . How much? How many fish? What size tank? Those are just a few mostly rhetorical questions .
As for tank water being nil in nutrients .
In a healthy tank: ammonia may be 0, nitrates might be low along with inorganic phosphate ,but there will be plenty of organics(thousands if not millions),bacteria, microfuana, etc and other organic carbon sources degrading and shifting in a healthy tank along with benthic bacteria for the nitrogen cycle and other organisms and filtration methods taking them up.
Transferring all of that stuff that's in the water without the cleansing bacteria and other organisms to go with it to a small uncyled tank to be immediately stocked is imprudent.
Stuff like that presented as fact that isn't needs correction.It's just nonsense. So for the sake of clarification.
If the fish generated all that nutrient in a few hours ,the tank transfer method wouldn't work without ammonia detoxifiers which are incompatible with the fromaldehyde you dose btw , unless 4 pre cylced tanks were used. In your case with all those extra useless transfers many more.. Do you have data to support your estimate of how much nutrient fish generate per hour per gram of body mass or something to support your unequivocal statement that fish in qt will generate nutrients to exceed that of a functioning reef in a few hours. What nutrients? . How much? How many fish? What size tank? Those are just a few mostly rhetorical questions .
As for tank water being nil in nutrients .
In a healthy tank: ammonia may be 0, nitrates might be low along with inorganic phosphate ,but there will be plenty of organics(thousands if not millions),bacteria, microfuana, etc and other organic carbon sources degrading and shifting in a healthy tank along with benthic bacteria for the nitrogen cycle and other organisms and filtration methods taking them up.
Transferring all of that stuff that's in the water without the cleansing bacteria and other organisms to go with it to a small uncyled tank to be immediately stocked is imprudent.
reeferman1128
New member
From what i am reading tank water is dangerous. Even with measurements of zero and filtered through a micron filter, it is poisonous. Beware. All of those who use micron filters that have been scientifically proven to filter out specific size particles, those claims are inaccurate. Beware!
Although documented success over and over do not put your fish in tank water or use a micron filter to filter micon size particles.
Although documented success over and over do not put your fish in tank water or use a micron filter to filter micon size particles.
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